Are we likely to contend if... (hypothetical)

niaz555 · Post #1 » by **niaz555** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:07 pm

If we signed Fielder and Darvish. And then traded for Gio Gonzalez. Or how close would we be? We got a decent closer this season, our batting is pretty solid anyway.
Those are basically all the rumours we are linked to these days.

P.S. I dont know if there was already a topic on this but an extra topic shouldn't be minded when the board isnt that active. I have been following the Jays and baseball for maybe the last two seasons, still gaining knowledge about the finer details.

Griff83 · Post #2 » by **Griff83** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:19 pm

If we added Fielder, Darvish and Gonzalez we are imo the best team in the AL East and could arguably be the best team in the AL

Escobar - Rasmus - Bautista - Fielder - Lawrie - Johnson - Edwin - Arencibia - Thames/Snider

Romero - Darvish - Gonzalez - Morrow - Alvarez

Add a lights out left hander to the pen and this team would be dangerous but we all know this really isnt going to happen.

flatjacket1 · Post #3 » by **flatjacket1** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:24 pm

I would say we are still a few pieces away (mainly in the bullpen) if what you said did happen.

I think we would need additional lateral moves.

satyr9 · Post #4 » by **satyr9** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:38 pm

IMO as long as all these things don't happen: The Yankees patchwork quilt of a rotation (Colon and Garcia specifically) achieves drastically above what one should reasonably expect again, the Red Sox players take to Valentine discipline like the greatest thing since sliced bread, the Rays patchwork quilt of everyday players (Joyce and Kotchmann specifically) achieve drastically above what one would reasonably expect again, the Rangers don't make major moves that dramatically increase their talent and win expectancy, the Angels new moves don't add enough wins and continue their over efficiency of pythag to actual wins with the new players, and one of the Twins, Royals, A's, Mariners, Indians, O's, and White Sox don't come out of nowhere with an uncatchable team, then even some moderate internal improvements and two WC slots will make this a team in contention for the summer.

If all 6 of those things happen, then they won't be in the hunt for a WC slot, but as long as only 5 of them do and 1 of the 5 isn't massive, then the Jays should be in any playoff discussion up until the end IMO. Basically, I have a hard time seeing 5 teams make it to 95ish win territory and I have a hard time seeing the Jays too far off a 90 game pace to not even be in contention. Sure, they could end up 5-7 games out and not be a true contender, but with the extra slot, come August they'll be within a couple games and should, at the very least, make for a contentious trade deadline debate if the last couple weeks are any indication.

Raps in 4 · Post #5 » by **Raps in 4** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:25 pm

Absolutely. The Yankees and Red Sox are not in great shape right now. We could easily finish atop of the division with that team.

Too bad Rogers doesn't see value in contending.

andyo · Post #6 » by **andyo** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:31 pm

I think that's a contending team on paper, possibly better if Rasmus and our SP hold up.

flatjacket1 · Post #7 » by **flatjacket1** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:58 pm

UssjTrunks wrote:Absolutely. The Yankees and Red Sox are not in great shape right now. We could easily finish atop of the division with that team.

Too bad Rogers doesn't see value in contending.

Blue Jays:
Pythagorean W-L: 79-83
Red Soxs:
Pythagorean W-L: 94-68
Tampa Bay:
Pythagorean W-L: 91-71
New York Yankees:
Pythagorean W-L: 101-61

I'm pretty sure Rogers just isn't stupid enough to believe "Prince will make us instant contenders!" rather than they don't see the value in contending.

Indiana Jones · Post #8 » by **Indiana Jones** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:20 am

Griff83 wrote:If we added Fielder, Darvish and Gonzalez we are imo the best team in the AL East and could arguably be the best team in the AL

Escobar - Rasmus - Bautista - Fielder - Lawrie - Johnson - Edwin - Arencibia - Thames/Snider

Romero - Darvish - Gonzalez - Morrow - Alvarez

Add a lights out left hander to the pen and this team would be dangerous but we all know this really isnt going to happen.

Sorta off topic, but if those were our starting position players, I wonder if Rasmus is the guy you'd want batting in front of Bautista. I think Lawrie in the two-spot would look nice. He'd get a boatload of fastballs. He's got a good OBP, and he can run like the wind. Not sure what Rasmus has in terms of discipline yet, but last season was a disaster.

We'd probably be able to contend if Bautista and Fielder produced like they did last season, while Rasmus and Johnson seriously improved their play. I like that pitching rotation though. Young and explosive!!

But honestly, I think we have a better chance of landing Fielder than Darvish.

Raps in 4 · Post #9 » by **Raps in 4** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:24 am

flatjacket1 wrote:
UssjTrunks wrote:Absolutely. The Yankees and Red Sox are not in great shape right now. We could easily finish atop of the division with that team.

Too bad Rogers doesn't see value in contending.

Blue Jays:
Pythagorean W-L: 79-83
Red Soxs:
Pythagorean W-L: 94-68
Tampa Bay:
Pythagorean W-L: 91-71
New York Yankees:
Pythagorean W-L: 101-61

I'm pretty sure Rogers just isn't stupid enough to believe "Prince will make us instant contenders!" rather than they don't see the value in contending.

Of course Rogers isn't stupid. They're raking in record profits every year. They see no reason to spend if they've been making money the past few years with minimal investment in the team.

flatjacket1 · Post #10 » by **flatjacket1** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:52 am

UssjTrunks wrote:
flatjacket1 wrote:
UssjTrunks wrote:Absolutely. The Yankees and Red Sox are not in great shape right now. We could easily finish atop of the division with that team.

Too bad Rogers doesn't see value in contending.

Blue Jays:
Pythagorean W-L: 79-83
Red Soxs:
Pythagorean W-L: 94-68
Tampa Bay:
Pythagorean W-L: 91-71
New York Yankees:
Pythagorean W-L: 101-61

I'm pretty sure Rogers just isn't stupid enough to believe "Prince will make us instant contenders!" rather than they don't see the value in contending.

Of course Rogers isn't stupid. They're raking in record profits every year. They see no reason to spend if they've been making money the past few years with minimal investment in the team.

I believe you miss understood my post. Spending more money at this point wouldn't help us. Believe it or not, one day Rogers will hit their limit and will have to stop spending. We aren't at that threshold yet but having Fielder on the books, getting us 2-3 WAR a year for 25M will end up making our "cap space" wasted (In a way there is a cap). We are so far away from contending its not even funny, I wish people would stop acting like Fielder "puts us over the hump". I believe paying 6M/WAR is just a bad way to spend money, and elite talent in future years can be acquired for less. Either AA realizes the Fielder bid is stupid or Rogers does. Either way its stupid. I would offer him 100M/5 years and let it sit. If somebody wants to pay 220M/10, power to them. I just hope its not us.