Discussing Other Teams' Moves

Post #641 » by **LyricalRico** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:25 pm

Mr Tony made a great point on PTI today - Stern effectively CAN'T let Paul go to the Clippers. If he did, it would be a HUGE F-You to one of the leagues greatest franchises. That's why the league has neutered Dell Demps and they are now asking an extremely high price from LAC, to try to justify letting CP3 go to the Clippers after blocking him going to the Lakers.

Taking it one step further, you could probably make the same case for any Western Conference team. I think the NBA has to find a way to send Paul to an Eastern Conference team. Otherwise the Lakers are going to throw an absolute fit (and justifiably so). And the alternative of doing nothing and having NOH lose him with zero compensation would be an even worse PR nightmare.

Stern screwed this up big time. This is a huge mess that will be a stain on the league for a long time to come, no matter how it eventually works out IMO.

Post #642 » by **LyricalRico** » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:38 pm

Could ATL get in on the Paul sweepstakes?

Hawks trade: Smith, Teague, Hinrich, Pachulia, 2 firsts
Hornets trade: Paul and Okafor
TRADE ID 5947763

NOH dumps a ton of salary, while getting a young big, a PG prospect in Teague, and picks. Maybe they can get a little more more depending on what the Hawks get from NYK for Crawford.

ATL forms something close to a super-team that should be able to compete well in the East.

Okafor
Horford
Williams
Johnson
Paul

And if Dwight Howard goes to free agency, they could also amnesty Okafor and form a super-duper-team!

Dat2U · Post #643 » by **Dat2U** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:29 am

Nivek wrote:Interesting perspective, Zards. I don't see it as a stick-up at all -- just the opposite. Gordon's the only worthwhile player in going to New Orleans, and they'd still have to re-sign him after the season. Kaman is colossally overrated, but at least he's expiring. The Minny pick should be a good player.

Still, New Orleans would be giving up Chris Paul for Gordon, a draft pick and cap room. That's not much for a player of Paul's caliber.

Agreed. Gordon & a high pick seems like fair value for a top 10 player. Kaman is just there to make the salaries work, he's not an impactful NBA player.

The Lakers deal for Paul was terrible for NO and made no sense. Frankly I think someone needed to step in before the Hornets GM wrecked that franchise. Martin is a nice player but Odom & Scola were both on the wrong side of 30. New Orleans would immediately become an old and expensive team. The Lakers deal did not offer one single young player of note. That's insane for a team like NO that needs to rebuild. At least now, it looks like there's potential for a fair deal from the Hornets perspective.

Dat2U · Post #644 » by **Dat2U** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:35 am

LyricalRico wrote:Mr Tony made a great point on PTI today - Stern effectively CAN'T let Paul go to the Clippers. If he did, it would be a HUGE F-You to one of the leagues greatest franchises. That's why the league has neutered Dell Demps and they are now asking an extremely high price from LAC, to try to justify letting CP3 go to the Clippers after blocking him going to the Lakers.

Taking it one step further, you could probably make the same case for any Western Conference team. I think the NBA has to find a way to send Paul to an Eastern Conference team. Otherwise the Lakers are going to throw an absolute fit (and justifiably so). And the alternative of doing nothing and having NOH lose him with zero compensation would be an even worse PR nightmare.

Stern screwed this up big time. This is a huge mess that will be a stain on the league for a long time to come, no matter how it eventually works out IMO.

Where Stern screwed up is that the NBA should have been involved in the negotiations from the start so it would have never gotten to the point where the NBA had to void a deal.

I'm sure if your a Lakers fan, your justifiably frustrated but that was a bad deal for New Orleans and something needed to done.

Dell Demps needed to be neutered. Every single move he's made has been very questionable. Honestly I don't think he's got a clue of what he's doing.

closg00 · Post #645 » by **closg00** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:39 am

Clippers bid on Chauncey, what's gotten into the Clippers Mgmt of-late, they've gotten serious about making moves and going for it.

DCZards · Post #646 » by **DCZards** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:40 am

Nivek wrote:Interesting perspective, Zards. I don't see it as a stick-up at all -- just the opposite. Gordon's the only worthwhile player in going to New Orleans, and they'd still have to re-sign him after the season. Kaman is colossally overrated, but at least he's expiring. The Minny pick should be a good player.

Still, New Orleans would be giving up Chris Paul for Gordon, a draft pick and cap room. That's not much for a player of Paul's caliber.

I think Aminu is going to be a player. You combine that with Gordon, one of the best young scorers in the NBA, who can play both some point and SG, and Minny's pick, which is likely a top five pick in a talent rich 2012 draft, and I think NO ends up with three very good young players for Paul.

And if Kaman can stay healthy...he's not a bad addition....probably a top 10-15 center.

willbcocks · Post #647 » by **willbcocks** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:52 am

I wonder if the clippers trade could be amended to the following: they swing Gordon to us for a trade exception and our 2012 pick, top 3 protected, with no protection in 2013.

Then we would not resign NY and we would be set at the guard spot for 10 years. We also wouldn't sacrifice Davis or Drummond should we win the lottery.

If the league wants less salary and more picks coming back, they might prefer this...

verbal8 · Post #648 » by **verbal8** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:45 pm

closg00 wrote:Clippers bid on Chauncey, what's gotten into the Clippers Mgmt of-late, they've gotten serious about making moves and going for it.

I think they succeed in creating a play-off team. Billups/Gordon/Butler/Griffin/Jordan might be enough to make the play-offs if some of the older teams start to decline.

However they still seem to be making some questionable moves(the money they gave Caron Butler). They also took a big risk on Deandre Jordan, but I think they had to do that.

It isn't a bad time to make move(s) to move up in the West. I see Portland and New Orleans dropping out of the play-offs. If Denver loses Nene they are another possibility to drop out. I don't see other teams who missed the play-offs really making big improvements. I think the Clippers increased experience(young guys and adding Billups) will help them on the road.

closg00 · Post #649 » by **closg00** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:43 pm

The Barea signing wasn't so horrible, Ricky now has a Spanish-speaking side-kick to help show him the NBA ropes during his rookie contract....but Minny should use the amnensty clause to un-do some of Khan's other moves.

Post #650 » by **nate33** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:14 pm

Minny won't amnesty anybody. You still have to pay the money when you amnesty someone. If you're paying them, you may as well keep them around as an asset. It's not like Minnesota is in position to make some kind of major free agent acquistion if they can just shave off a few million from their cap figure.

Post #651 » by **LyricalRico** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:42 pm

Is there anybody that would take a package centered around some combo of Ridnour/Beasley/Miller/Webster and give the Wolves a starting quality SG in return? Maybe this:

Wolves trade: Beasley+Webster+Miller+pick
Wolves receive: Kevin Martin

Clippers trade: Chris Kaman
Clippers receive: Beasley+Miller

Rockets trade: Kevin Martin
Rockets receive: Kaman+Webster+pick

Houston gets a stop-gap at center and other value, LAC upgrades their bench for a playoff run, and Minny balances their team and acquires a starting SG.

Darko/Pekovic
Love/Randolph
Williams/Johnson
Martin/Ellington
Rubio/Barea

If Rubio is the real deal, they could definitely take a step forward.

Post #652 » by **montestewart** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:49 pm

If Wolves acted in some logical way and consolidated their assets, rather than going the cut-rate Blazers route. Would have been good for Clippers prior to Butler signing.

Post #653 » by **LyricalRico** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:30 pm

Kwame to GSW. Championship!!! LOL

Seriously, how is this guy still able to get $7M per season?

Post #654 » by **jmrosenth** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:34 pm

Kinda crazy that Kwame is still just 29. With this contract, he'll have banked close to $60 mill over his career. I thought he'd be out of the league five years ago, so big ups to him for hanging on and becoming a serviceable journeyman.

Post #655 » by **Ruzious** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:59 pm

Kwame's dry-cleaning bills don't pay for themselves.

Here's an interesting blurb from Henry Abbot of ESPN.com on the value of Chicago acquiring Rip Hamilton:

•Richard Hamilton would not help the Bulls, according to the Wages of Wins analysis. Important in discussing the Bulls is that especially Ronnie Brewer, but also Keith Bogans, were essential to the NBA's best defense. Brewer was literally a Defensive Player of the Year type player. Benching him for a more talented offensive player would provide some nice relief for Derrick Rose on offense. But it does not necessarily equal team improvement. And Hamilton doesn't shoot like he used to.

I've always thought Ronnie Brewer was underrated while Corey Brewer was overrated.

verbal8 · Post #656 » by **verbal8** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:18 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Kwame to GSW. Championship!!! LOL

Seriously, how is this guy still able to get $7M per season?

The one positive is that he doesn't go to the Heat

I guess they figured that Nene was out of reach. They probably had to overpay a little to get him on a 1 year deal. I guess they also still get the "under cap" MLE if they want to make another addition.

Nivek · Post #657 » by **Nivek** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:49 pm

verbal8 wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:Kwame to GSW. Championship!!! LOL

Seriously, how is this guy still able to get $7M per season?

The one positive is that he doesn't go to the Heat

You have that the wrong way around. The Heat would have been hurt by signing Kwame.

Dat2U · Post #658 » by **Dat2U** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:03 pm

Nivek wrote:
verbal8 wrote:
LyricalRico wrote:Kwame to GSW. Championship!!! LOL

Seriously, how is this guy still able to get $7M per season?

The one positive is that he doesn't go to the Heat

You have that the wrong way around. The Heat would have been hurt by signing Kwame.

Maybe the numbers will prove me wrong but I'd take Kwame at C over anyone else the Heat tried there last year. Joel Anthony, Jamaal Magloire, Erick Dampier. Stiff, stiff, stiff. Kwame is a self-check offensively but I thought he finally settled into being a quality backup C.

Post #659 » by **montestewart** » Tue Dec 13, 2011 11:58 pm

^
I agree, but if they signed him for $7 million (would they even be able to?) they might well regret that.

rockymac52 · Post #660 » by **rockymac52** » Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:01 am

I wish we got involved in the trade for Corey Brewer and Rudy Fernandez. Lots of us here wanted Fernandez in trades for a long time until last year. Denver just got Brewer and Fernandez for a possible future 2nd round pick. Great value. Very similar to some of the trades we've been doing recently. Really wish we had made that trade instead of Denver. Even if it was for just one of them. Would have made more sense for Dallas too, they could have got 2 2nd round picks instead of 1 (even if they don't really care about the draft picks, it's better to have them than to not have them). Oh well, not a huge deal.