Chris Paul Trade Agreed Upon, Time to Swoop in for that C?

[Superiorblogman]

So, now that the trade has been agreed upon again it is time for us to swoop in and get Kaman or Okafor.

Well, we have seen this before so we have to let it go through before we get to ahead of ourselves, but if things go well I just don't see the Hornets keeping Okafor and Kaman even though they could possibly slide Okafor to the PF position. My point is I just don't see N.O. a team that will probably not even make the playoffs paying $24.7 million dollars at one position of C between Kaman and Okafor. I could be wrong but I think this is a golden chance to get a quality C. N.O. only got 1 pick out of the deal. I am sure throwing in a 2nd rd pick would also help entice them if they needed enticing.

My favorite deal is Kirk and Zaza for Kaman.

As I have stated several times the fact that this trade gets rid of Zaza's $5 mill plus salary for next year would make this a great trade IMO. I would rather have Kaman's bird rights than Hinrich's also. We would very likely be able to sign Kaman to a decent deal without going into luxury taking Zaza's salary away. N.O. would get another expiring in Kirk that they could flip later and Kirk could back up Jack when he comes back. Zaza would be a cheaper replacement for Kaman on N.O.'s part and a good backup for Okafor plus he would be a expiring next year. Lastly, we would save $650,000 this year.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=7nuxkn9

The other deal that I don't like as much would be Marvin and Zaza for Okafor.

The 1st hiccup with this trade is it would add almost $400,000 to our cap this year and that amount could but us dangerously close to the luxury line. Other than that this trade would eventually add about $7 million to our cap but it would not be added until the last year of Okafor's contract year 3.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=6lhexxm

[HMFFL]

I would like for us to pursue both Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman.

[NekiEcko]

HMFFL,

Okay, what trade would you do get those two?

[dms269]

I think getting Gordon would be extremely difficult. If the Hornets were pushing so hard to get him, I doubt we would get him cheaply.

What is the incentive for the Hornets to trade us Kaman for Hinrich and Zaza. I figure we would need to give them a first if we really wanted to bring in Kaman.

[Superiorblogman]

I think getting Gordon would be extremely difficult. If the Hornets were pushing so hard to get him, I doubt we would get him cheaply.

What is the incentive for the Hornets to trade us Kaman for Hinrich and Zaza. I figure we would need to give them a first if we really wanted to bring in Kaman.

I explained the reasoning in my post. They aren't going to re-sign Kaman, they already have Okafor. Hinrich is also a expiring in which they could flip again for more assets. They get Zaza a cheaper backup to Okafor. They would be using all of there assets to build by trading Kaman again and flipping his expiring since that is all he is. Some people actually maximize there assets unlike the Hawks. They could flip Kaman twice by getting Zaza a 2nd round pick and flipping Hinrich's expiring for more future assets and cheaper pieces. I explained that in my initial post.

[Superiorblogman]

I would like for us to pursue both Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman.

I would love Gordon also and hardly ever try to dismiss something that I don't have facts to prove, but I just can't see that happening. I had a guy to argue with me the other day that Gordon is the 3rd best SG in the NBA and is better than JJ, which is a joke to me. Gordon is a 6"3/6"4 undersized SG along the lines of Monta more than anything. Unless you are D Wade and 6"3/6"4 you usually are too much of a liability all things considered to really be the starter on a perennial playoff team. With people arguing things like that it is hard to see getting Gordon, plus he is still on his rookie scale contract.

[ATL Boy]

I would like for us to pursue both Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman.

I honestly would love Gordan, the man's an All-Star and if Sund finds some amazing creative way to get him I'm all for it, but Sund isn't creative; I don't think we could get Gordan but I'm sure Kamen is available but we're not going to give up a first for him he's not worth a first round pick but we did give 2 first round picks for Hinrich so you never know what terrible trade Sund could come up with.

[Superiorblogman]

I would like for us to pursue both Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman.

I honestly would love Gordan, the man's an All-Star and if Sund finds some amazing creative way to get him I'm all for it, but Sund isn't creative; I don't think we could get Gordan but I'm sure Kamen is available but we're not going to give up a first for him he's not worth a first round pick but we did give 2 first round picks for Hinrich so you never know what terrible trade Sund could come up with.[/quote]

I totally agree. He is available, we could get him, but you don't give up a 1st for him. Think about this we gave up 2 1st rds for Hinrich which is horrible. On the other hand, if we trade Hinrich and Zaza for Kaman and they can flip Hinrich's expiring for 1 1st round pick. Then they have Zaza who is a cheaper backup than re-signing Kaman would be, plus he expires next year. Plus, they now have the 1st they flipped Hinrich for. So, they could get in essence Zaza, a 2nd rd pick, and a 1st out of a guy that was sent as a expiring just to make the numbers work in Kaman. So, why would we even think of giving them a 1st so they could still flip Hinrich and end up with Zaza and 2 1st from Kaman who is simply a contract in this whole deal? Make no mistake the only reason they took him is to make dollars match and he is a expiring. Kirk, Zaza and a 2nd is more than fair when you consider I am pretty sure they can flip Kirk for atleast 1 1st. Kaman was going to be backing up De-Andre Jordan. He could be great for this team but be realistic. Zaza, Hinrich, a 2nd a the possibility of flipping Kirk for a 1st is more than enough.

[dms269]

I think getting Gordon would be extremely difficult. If the Hornets were pushing so hard to get him, I doubt we would get him cheaply.

What is the incentive for the Hornets to trade us Kaman for Hinrich and Zaza. I figure we would need to give them a first if we really wanted to bring in Kaman.

I explained the reasoning in my post. They aren't going to re-sign Kaman, they already have Okafor. Hinrich is also a expiring in which they could flip again for more assets. They get Zaza a cheaper backup to Okafor. They would be using all of there assets to build by trading Kaman again and flipping his expiring since that is all he is. Some people actually maximize there assets unlike the Hawks. They could flip Kaman twice by getting Zaza a 2nd round pick and flipping Hinrich's expiring for more future assets and cheaper pieces. I explained that in my initial post.

The problem is they don't really get assets from the Hawks. Zaza isn't seen by a ton of teams as a great backup. He isn't a great defender, isn't a great rebounder, isn't really a great scorer. He is a good hustle player. They wouldn't get a ton of value from him. Kaman carries more value than Hinrich, so why not trade Kaman for that value rather than Hinrich? The Hornets would be better off trading Kaman for value rather than trading him for Zaza and trying to flip Hinrich.

[dms269]

I would like for us to pursue both Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman.

I honestly would love Gordan, the man's an All-Star and if Sund finds some amazing creative way to get him I'm all for it, but Sund isn't creative; I don't think we could get Gordan but I'm sure Kamen is available but we're not going to give up a first for him he's not worth a first round pick but we did give 2 first round picks for Hinrich so you never know what terrible trade Sund could come up with.[/quote]

I totally agree. He is available, we could get him, but you don't give up a 1st for him. Think about this we gave up 2 1st rds for Hinrich which is horrible. On the other hand, if we trade Hinrich and Zaza for Kaman and they can flip Hinrich's expiring for 1 1st round pick. Then they have Zaza who is a cheaper backup than re-signing Kaman would be, plus he expires next year. Plus, they now have the 1st they flipped Hinrich for. So, they could get in essence get Zaza, a 2nd rd pick, and a 1st out of a guy that was sent as a expiring just to make the numbers work in Kaman. So, why would we even think of giving them a 1st so they could still flip Hinrich and end up with Zaza and 2 1st from Kaman who is simply a contract in this whole deal. Make no mistake the only reason they took him is to make dollars match and he is a expiring. Kirk, Zaza and a 2nd is more than fair when you consider I am pretty sure they can flip Kirk for atleast 1 1st.

Kaman might have been a salary filler, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't carry value. Kaman is worth more on the market than Hinrich. Hinrich is seen as a backup combo guard who is expiring. His greatest asset is the fact that he is expiring. Kaman on the other hand is a solid center who just happens to be expiring. What incentive would the Hornets have to try and trade for Hinrich and flip him for a first when they could likely get a first out of Kaman to start? I don't think the Hornets would consider Zaza an asset, just a slightly overpayed backup center who doesn't do any one real thing well.

[Superiorblogman]

I think getting Gordon would be extremely difficult. If the Hornets were pushing so hard to get him, I doubt we would get him cheaply.

What is the incentive for the Hornets to trade us Kaman for Hinrich and Zaza. I figure we would need to give them a first if we really wanted to bring in Kaman.

I explained the reasoning in my post. They aren't going to re-sign Kaman, they already have Okafor. Hinrich is also a expiring in which they could flip again for more assets. They get Zaza a cheaper backup to Okafor. They would be using all of there assets to build by trading Kaman again and flipping his expiring since that is all he is. Some people actually maximize there assets unlike the Hawks. They could flip Kaman twice by getting Zaza a 2nd round pick and flipping Hinrich's expiring for more future assets and cheaper pieces. I explained that in my initial post.

The problem is they don't really get assets from the Hawks. Zaza isn't seen by a ton of teams as a great backup. He isn't a great defender, isn't a great rebounder, isn't really a great scorer. He is a good hustle player. They wouldn't get a ton of value from him. Kaman carries more value than Hinrich, so why not trade Kaman for that value rather than Hinrich? The Hornets would be better off trading Kaman for value rather than trading him for Zaza and trying to flip Hinrich.

No, I don't get your point or see your supposed problem. We traded 2 1st for Hinrich. Hinrich has a better rep around the league than Kaman. Kaman was going to be a backup this year and has never been traded for anything other than a salary matchup so that is his value. Kirk's value is what has been proven that you can get from him which is 2 1st round picks. We don't set someones value on RealGM it is set by the market. The market says Hinrich's value is greater than Kaman's.

[HMFFL]

HMFFL,

Okay, what trade would you do get those two?

It depends on what interest New Orleans and what direction they're wanting to go in. The best thing for us would if Joe Johnson interest them because we can use his big salary to match contracts with New Orleans and take on some baggage that they'd possibly like to get rid of (Trevor Ariza). The Minny unprotected first round pick is what has the most value. They'd probably reject Josh Smith and Jeff Teague for it.

What concerns me about Chris Kaman is that I expect him to possibly join forces with Dirk Nowitzki after the upcoming season. He has value, Philly nearly dealt Iggy for him, but they wanted more.

Only assuming, but Jeff Teague would possibly interest New Orleans, and would be a better fit for them over Jarrett Jack (2yrs. $11 million).

I prefer to trade Josh Smith over Al Horford, but I am afraid that New Orleans would prefer Al Horford, and that would leave us with other issues if we keep Joe Johnson (Eric Gordon).

A package of Josh Smith, Kirk Hinrich (expiring), and ZaZa Pachulia for Chris Kaman (expiring), Eric Gordon, and Trevor Ariza.

A package of Joe Johnson, Kirk Hinrich (expiring), and a future first for Chris Kaman (expiring), Eric Gordon, and Trevor Ariza.

Kirk Hinrich is intriguing because I think he can be moved for a future pick to a contender and I think the Hornets realize that. It gives them more to trade to grow on for the future to build around.

[dms269]

No, I don't get your point or see your supposed problem. We traded 2 1st for Hinrich. Hinrich has a better rep around the league than Kaman. Kaman was going to be a backup this year and has never been traded for anything other than a salary matchup so that is his value. Kirk's value is what has been proven that you can get from him which is 2 1st round picks. We don't set someones value on RealGM it is set by the market. The market says Hinrich's value is greater than Kaman's.

Just because we traded 2 firsts for Hinrich, it doesn't mean that is his current value. We traded 2 firsts and dumped Bibby's contract for a 2 year player on a solid contract. Now Hinrich is out for a little bit, which hurts his value, and is expiring, which hurts in terms of getting assets out of it. If not then they could trade him for a team looking for a salary dump and pick up something solid in return.

Kaman isn't amazing but in a league where there is a severe lack of solid big man, he has value. Hornets could easily get a first or get a prospect out of him. If you can get that out of him, what is the point of trading for Hinrich only to try and trade Hinrich for the same thing? If I can get the same value out of both (which I believe you can, since I feel you are underrating Kaman's value and overrating Hinrich's based off of what a desperate team gave up for him..aka us), then it only makes sense to trade Kaman for the pieces rather than having to take on Zaza's contract.

[Skyhawk1]

There's just no way the Hornets will trade Gordon. The Clippers were very reluctant in including him in the deal but once the Hornets said it was a deal breaker things changed. Now, the Hornets will probably listen to offers regarding Kaman and Okafor. Zaza + Hinrich don't strike me as the best offer they will get though.

[evildallas]

With out reading the whole thread, I just wanted to post I agree with Superior's initial suggestion of it is a good time to trade for Kaman with Hinrich and Zaza. It will probably also require tossing in a pick (if a 1st) or a couple picks (if 2nds) to fit what the league wants for the Hornets. Kaman's a 1 year filler for them and if they can turn him into a pick they probably will. It might have to wait until midseason for Kirk to become healthy and for New Orleans to fade out of the spotlight so they don't demand Josh Smith for Kaman to show everyone how they are protecting the sale potential of the Hornets.

And on the thought they would consider Joe Johnson, no. After the media has spent the last year publicly anointing his contract as the worst, the league decision makers of Stern and Jackson aren't going to attach that to their for sale sign. They weren't happy with the contracts of Scola and Martin, so Joe is a no go.

Josh Smith might be more desirable (age/contract wise) to them as a cornerstone in a Gordon deal, but I doubt it after they made such a public spectacle to get Gordon.

Smith/Hinrich for Kaman/Gordon/Ariza

If they did like that I'd say move Joe to SF earlier and continue with the deal. Max out Gordon when his deal is up and Joe gets to play Robin instead of wilting under the pressure of the Batman role. Pay the luxury tax and go to battle over the next 5 years with Teague/Gordon/Johnson/Horford/Kaman as the starting five (Williams probably gets amnesty next summer if he doesn't break out this year to soften the cost of resigning Gordon and Kaman). If the ASG doesn't think it can handle the costs of resigning Gordon and Kaman then they should only focus on that initial idea of going after Kaman. If cheap enough he could either be a rental or a piece to resign.

[D21]

The main thing is that they blocked lots of offers because they need to have something that will help to sell the team.
And every trade NOH would make will follow this, so it's young good players on good contracts, expiring contracts, or picks.

I don't see them trading Gordon, and don't forget that Gordon, like Kaman, can be traded alone now, but has to wait to be traded in a package, unless you succeed to have a big trade that is two or more separate trades with Gordon alone in one trade, and other players in another trade.

- Good young players on good contracts : so they would considering Al, Josh and Teague as potential offer.

- Expiring contracts: Hinrich
Add Pape Sy because is on a cheap unguaranteed contract, and has some potential

- Picks : we have all our first picks to offer, and our second picks and some from previous trades (Suns' 2012, Rockets' 2013).

- They could also be interested by Crawford with a sign-&-trade if the contract is real good.


We don't send Josh, Al or Jeff to get Kaman.
Hinrich must be in, and as adding Zaza hurts NOH for this summer, we add a pick, maybe two seconds or the 2012' first, but since the 2012 draft is supposed to be deep, we have better to not trade it, unless it's for something better than Kaman.

On the other side, Kaman could be re-signed next summer for a good, and if ATL want to keep him, why NOH would not want him too ?
He can also walk for nothing and sign with any contender

[PerkinsFor3]

I would like for us to pursue both Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman.

I honestly would love Gordan, the man's an All-Star and if Sund finds some amazing creative way to get him I'm all for it, but Sund isn't creative; I don't think we could get Gordan but I'm sure Kamen is available but we're not going to give up a first for him he's not worth a first round pick but we did give 2 first round picks for Hinrich so you never know what terrible trade Sund could come up with.

Gordan and Kamen? Is this a set up?

[Ruhiel]

I would like for us to pursue both Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman.

I honestly would love Gordan, the man's an All-Star and if Sund finds some amazing creative way to get him I'm all for it, but Sund isn't creative; I don't think we could get Gordan but I'm sure Kamen is available but we're not going to give up a first for him he's not worth a first round pick but we did give 2 first round picks for Hinrich so you never know what terrible trade Sund could come up with.

Gordan and Kamen? Is this a set up?

Its HawksLand aka the Loon-y Bin. To be fair the original statement was "I would like for us to pursue" not "We can realistically obtain if we pursue". It keeps our little peanut gallery entertained.

[dms269]

I would like for us to pursue both Eric Gordon and Chris Kaman.

I honestly would love Gordan, the man's an All-Star and if Sund finds some amazing creative way to get him I'm all for it, but Sund isn't creative; I don't think we could get Gordan but I'm sure Kamen is available but we're not going to give up a first for him he's not worth a first round pick but we did give 2 first round picks for Hinrich so you never know what terrible trade Sund could come up with.

Gordan and Kamen? Is this a set up?

We have to deal with everyone calling Al Horford...Hortford.

[PerkinsFor3]

We even spelled Scotty Pippon correct on this forum back in 1989.