Thibs managing minutes and depth?

[RichardsRival3]

Last year Thibs ran the starters into the ground especially Deng and Rose by playing them too many minutes during the regular season.

Is this going to change this year especially considering the compact schedule?

We have enough talent for 2 complete, distinct squads:
1 ) Rose, Rip, Deng, Booz, Noah

2) C.J. Brew, Kyle, Taj, Asik

I am not saying they should do a NHL style line change just that Thibs has to reduce the minutes of our main guys. Our depth should be a big advantage for us in the regular season, but only if Thibs allows the 2nd team to play enough minutes. Also we have to be better rested entering the playoffs.

Do you see Thibs changing his ways?

[JasonFTW]

man, i wish but i doubt it. i just don't see Thibs changing his ways on the players minutes

[blumeany]

Honestly, I thought Thibs did well with most guy's minutes and he used the bench mob an awful lot. The two guys he probably failed with are probably Rose and Deng. He played them too much. And while it worked during the season, they both seemed to wear out come playoff time. Same can't be said for Boozer and Noah, they were just injured. But Rose and Deng had way too much mileage on them.

Thibs actually was doing some NHL changes. And it worked for a while, but not as much during the playoffs when other teams stars stay out on the court longer. Part of it also is conditioning. Rose has thrown it all on himself and said one of his goals was to get himself better prepared physically for the long haul. We'll see how that goes.

[Red Larrivee]

The minutes thing is an exaggerated non-issue.

They're basketball players. They're conditioned to play big minutes, especially considering most of our guys aren't 15-year vets. We didn't lose to the Heat because of a lack of rest. If you play to conserve minutes, then you're not committed to winning basketball. Our bench is good, but not good enough to play extended minutes all the time.

[RichardsRival3]

The minutes thing is an exaggerated non-issue.

They're basketball players. They're conditioned to play big minutes, especially considering most of our guys aren't 15-year vets. We didn't lose to the Heat because of a lack of rest. If you play to conserve minutes, then you're not committed to winning basketball. Our bench is good, but not good enough to play extended minutes all the time.

How is it exaggerated when Rose himself said he wore down towards then end? It is going to be worse this year when there is less time between games. Also Deng played 39mpg last year. With his injury history, Thibs is just tempting fate by keeping him in for that many minutes. He does have an injury history.

Also, I am not saying we should play all of our 2nd team at once. What I meant was something like:

6 minutes - Bring in Brew/Kyle + Taj for Rip and Boozer

Start of 2nd Q: C.J., Rip, Brew/Kyle, Booz, Asik

Mix and match so there are a couple of starters in with the 2nd team.

The end result being our starters get more rest.

[DuckIII]

Last year Thibs ran the starters into the ground especially Deng and Rose by playing them too many minutes during the regular season.

I reject the premise. Deng never wore down. Even during the playoffs. Heck, if I recall the Heat series was the best of his post-season series last year.

And Rose didn't wear down the way you mean it, in my view. He got injured, and then faltered a bit under the weight of his first ECF as a 22 year old. Rose never said he wore down due to minutes. Its far more likely he wore down due to a combination of the injury, the pressure, and the fact that Miami was absolutely swarming him and he didn't have a reliable release valve.

Everyone else's minutes were handled judiciously.

That said, with the addition of Rip the minute allocation, particularly for Deng, should shift downward. This is so not because Deng can't handle the minutes, but because even with the addition of Rip, Korver and Brewer have excellent and unique things to offer that I still want on the court. To account for that, I'd like to see Deng's minutes dip by about 3 per game.

Outside of that, I'm good.

[Red Larrivee]

Rose's "wear down" is a combination of carrying too much of the offensive load, injuring his ankle in the postseason twice, and facing more physical defenses while carrying a huge offensive load. It's not minutes completely.

Deng handled his minutes fine. Thibs isn't tempting anything. Players can get injured playing in 20mpg just as much as they can in 39.

What I'm saying is that you can't lay out a minute conservation plan and follow it consistently. Coaches coach to win games. Minutes are handed out based on that game-by-game. Our starters will be fine.

[JasonFTW]

The minutes thing is an exaggerated non-issue.

They're basketball players. They're conditioned to play big minutes, especially considering most of our guys aren't 15-year vets. We didn't lose to the Heat because of a lack of rest. If you play to conserve minutes, then you're not committed to winning basketball. Our bench is good, but not good enough to play extended minutes all the time.

How is it exaggerated when Rose himself said he wore down towards then end? It is going to be worse this year when there is less time between games. Also Deng played 39mpg last year. With his injury history, Thibs is just tempting fate by keeping him in for that many minutes. He does have an injury history.

Also, I am not saying we should play all of our 2nd team at once. What I meant was something like:

6 minutes - Bring in Brew/Kyle + Taj for Rip and Boozer

Start of 2nd Q: C.J., Rip, Brew/Kyle, Booz, Asik

Mix and match so there are a couple of starters in with the 2nd team.

The end result being our starters get more rest.

i agree, would like to see that type of move be done

[weneeda2guard]

no team in the league has the luxury of having their reserves carry them. starters are starters for a reason, they win the games for you! deng will be reduced for few minutes, but for the most part, rose, rip, deng, noah need to see the bulk of the minutes for us to be successful. others should just come in and do they part.

we get paranoid as bulls fans. we bring up so many factors on why we lost to the heat, but most of the reason was the fact we were a young team who has never been in that spot before and didnt have what it took mentally to pull off the upset. same can be said for okc. these young teams are playing older teams that have stars in they 8th-12th season in the league, meanwhile okc and bulls stars are in they 3rd and 4th season and never been in that position in they life. maturity have to take place. it just hurts cause we fans of the young team. i was only a kid when the 91 bulls team won it all, but my mother was a big basketball fan and i watched year after year, us make it to the playoffs and get put out. then one day, maturity takes place and jordan just figured it out. rose will figure it out. people are not really sold on rip but i think he the final piece to the puzzle. maybe not this year, but in the 3 years rip is here, i def believe rose, deng, noah, boozer and rip will break through, put it together, have a magical run and win a title. i believe those 5 with a scorer off the bench will win at least 3 titles in the next 10 years. i believe we are the next san antonio spurs.

[Dr Genius]

I personally would like for Thibs to develop our bench more in the regular season. With this compressed schedule, it is better for Thibs to keep his starters under 32 mins/game. He will needs these guys fresh for war.

[Air Poohdini]

I think this year Thibs will be able to manage the minutes better this year, this is good news for Luol.

[DuckIII]

I think this year Thibs will be able to manage the minutes better this year, this is good news for Luol.

I suppose. The thing is, everyone was expecting it to adversely impact him, and it didn't. I want Lu's minutes reduced too. But not because of Lu. Rather, because Brewer and Korver still need adequate time.

[DASMACKDOWN]

While I agree with Red on that players are conditioned to play heavy minutes.

I only disagree with how Thibs used Deng a bit.

Rose is fine. Thats your superstar, he is young, he can handle 36-39 mins a night.

Thats what superstars do.

But for Deng, Deng was visibly tired in the last few months of the season and had said so on numerous occasions. Even with the flu, Thibs still played Deng 39 mins the next day.

Thibs I think leaned on Luol a bit too much.

But with Deng/Thibs, is a combination of Thibs just being totally comfortable with Deng...The defense dropping off (ie Deng to Korver) or the bench mob going long droughts without scoring.

So it was understood to a point.

I think it will be alot different this year because we have Rip now.

Now the spot that was occupied by a trio of players that were all defense no offense or vice versa is now occupied by a legit 2 way player.

I think the transition from first unit to second will be alot smoother and much less of a dropoff.

This will enable Deng to rest.

I think Rose's mins will remain the same but look for Deng to play about 4 mins less at around 35.

[kyrv]

I think the statement that Thibs ran the starters into the ground is untrue and unfair.

There are two(2) players in question, Rose and Deng. Rose played about 37mpg and Deng about 39. Would be nice to see those numbers go down, especially Deng. Rose did play similar to other superstars.

They are young, in great shape, and world class athletes. But, why don't the best ones just always play 48 minutes? So they can get some rest. Okay, armed with that info, it's a matter of how much rest they should get.

Seems odd to overplay Deng when you've got other good players (not as good as Deng, but good) playing well below career lows in minutes.

Deng was his security blanket, needs to be weened, just as Bogans probably needs to be taken away from Thibs' toy box.

[Ron Harper]

Unbelievable how deep we are when you look at it on paper. It seems the possibilities are endless with our rotations.

[MGB8]

Rip's addition makes Thib's minute management job much easier, IMO, because (presuming Rip starts), the Bulls will begin the game attacking on offense just as much as establishing themselves on defense. In contrast, with Bogans in, the Bulls would start with some hinderance on offense - sort of with one leg stuck in the mud.

The reason this matters is that I think the Bulls will have an easier time figuring out, in each game, whether their first wing reserve needs to bring "more offense" or "more defense," based on the flow of the game. And Rip's overall balanced game means that the Bulls can run Rip-Brewer or Rip-Korver at the 2-3, and give Deng some time to rest during those spots.

[kyrv]

Rip's addition makes Thib's minute management job much easier, IMO, because (presuming Rip starts), the Bulls will begin the game attacking on offense just as much as establishing themselves on defense. In contrast, with Bogans in, the Bulls would start with some hinderance on offense - sort of with one leg stuck in the mud.

The reason this matters is that I think the Bulls will have an easier time figuring out, in each game, whether their first wing reserve needs to bring "more offense" or "more defense," based on the flow of the game. And Rip's overall balanced game means that the Bulls can run Rip-Brewer or Rip-Korver at the 2-3, and give Deng some time to rest during those spots.

I agree, and I hope that's what he does. Not just to rest Deng, but to get Brewer and Korver playing time.

[TeamMan]

Some varied thoughts on this thread:

1) MPN

IMO Deng (39.1) and Rose (37.4) were the only two that were of concern. Booz and Noah (both about 32) were about what you would want, and everyone was less.

So I would say that (-8) for Deng is easy, some of those minutes should go to Brewer (22.0) and Rip, who'll be replacing Bogans (17.8), should get the rest. Let's say we balance them out at 24 MPG each.

Result:
Deng - 31
Rose - 32
Booz - 32
Noah - 32
Brewer - 24
Rip - 24

(-5) for Rose is based upon the belief/hope that an improved Brewer and the addition of Rip will allow Thibs to rest Rose those additional 5 minutes without missing his scoring. But that will also depend on CJ increasing his putrid 36% on 2P shots.

2) "I'm worn down...but it's my fault..."

In my long years of watching professional sports in several different countries, I've never seen any athlete say that it was his fault that he was tired after the playoffs.

However, it was pure genius because it let the air out the balloon concerning the FO not bringing in more help (LT issues for JR), the other players not holding up their end, and Thibs not doing a better job of managing his rotations.

So what happened afterward:
- The other players went off, worked on their condition, worked on their shooting, and came back much better prepared than last season.
- The FO brings in Rip and Jimmy-B, who are both perimeter players meant to take pressure off of Rose and Deng.
- JR "reaffirms" that the LT will not stand in the way of the Bulls winning another championship.

Of course we'll have to wait to see what the cumulative effect of these things will be, but Rose has firmly established himself as the on-the-court and off-the-court leader of the Bulls.

[DanTown8587]

I think Thibs is a matchup coach and I think that gets him into trouble a little bit. Some nights, Kyle closes out games. Some nights, Ronnie. Some nights, Rip. That's fine. Just make sure that Noah, Rose, Deng and Boozer are on the floor for majority of close games towards the end and I'm fine.

People over think minutes for these guys. They're highly conditioned to play these minutes.

[ballerkingn2]

I just hope thibs doesn't murder deng mins again this year. Although to bash my own argument maybe that's how deng stays healthy. If i'm correct he played a ton of mins every game and played every game. So maybe that's how deng stays healthy,maybe when you rest him that's when the break down starts and he's at most risk to get hurt;hey idk maybe that's the trick.