ESPN: Plan B for Jays

Attonitus · Post #1 » by **Attonitus** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:08 pm

Just a look at the available starters since we didn't get Darvish:

A's: Gio
Cubs: Garza
Rays: Davis or Nieman
Rangers: Ogando or Harrison

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=737188 ... id=2378529

Brinbe · Post #2 » by **Brinbe** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 5:57 pm

Hmmm, not too thrilled with any of those options. Would rather stand pat, go after a short-term vet and wait for some of these young arms to develop.

They didn't get in on Darvish, probably won't get Prince, so no point in half-assing a push. Just fall back, wait another year.

torontoaces04 · Post #3 » by **torontoaces04** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:01 pm

Pass on all of them. Lets just be mediocre for another year, and save our bullets (if we actually have any) for the 2012 off-season.

We CANNOT trade top level prospects (D'Arnaud,Gose,Hutchison,Marisnick,Norris) for a "meh" starter like Gonzalez or Garza.....It just can't happen.

g_greg · Post #4 » by **g_greg** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:20 pm

torontoaces04 wrote:Pass on all of them. Lets just be mediocre for another year, and save our bullets (if we actually have any) for the 2012 off-season.

We CANNOT trade top level prospects (D'Arnaud,Gose,Hutchison,Marisnick,Norris) for a "meh" starter like Gonzalez or Garza.....It just can't happen.

Yeah I don't disagree, but any of those mediocre starters WILL improve the team - so I suppose it would be dependent on the price we'd have to pay.

Worst thing that can happen right now is AA gets antsy and makes a stupid signing or trade to appease some fans.

Skin Blues · Post #5 » by **Skin Blues** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:29 pm

If the Rangers wanna give up Ogando I'm sure we'd gladly take him. You want 5 years of control over a pitcher that has posted an excellent MLB season and lived up to hype, or 7 years of control over a minor league pitcher that we think might be good? Screw this "lets be medicore again and try in a couple years" buIIshít. That's not to say waste prospects on mediocre players, but make an effort to improve the major league team. If you fail at FA acquisitions then trades are the other option. So far, we've failed at the whole FA thing.

Santoki · Post #6 » by **Santoki** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:45 pm

Skin Blues wrote:If the Rangers wanna give up Ogando I'm sure we'd gladly take him. You want 5 years of control over a pitcher that has posted an excellent MLB season and lived up to hype, or 7 years of control over a minor league pitcher that we think might be good? Screw this "lets be medicore again and try in a couple years" buIIshít. That's not to say waste prospects on mediocre players, but make an effort to improve the major league team. If you fail at FA acquisitions then trades are the other option. So far, we've failed at the whole FA thing.

We don't know if we've failed because we may, or may not have, actually done anything. At times, the tight-lipped act from AA can be a pain in the ass.

ItsDanger · Post #7 » by **ItsDanger** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:51 pm

Id wait to see how JPA does this season and if you think he can be a solid catcher, D'Arnaud could land you a quality starter. That option has to be on the table especially if Drabek stumbles again.

Skin Blues · Post #8 » by **Skin Blues** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm

So far we've failed at FA acquisitions... nothing he can or can't say changes that. Fielder and Beltran are still available so there are options, but it's getting to the point where we'll probably need to trade prospects or take on bad salaries to improve the team. Although honestly I'd take Pena or Oswalt on a one-year deal. The nice thing about Pena is that teams will be skeptical about announcing to their fans that they signed a 1B with a .200 batting average. Should keep the price down while allowing for a better glove and about a one-to-two-hunderd point increase in OPS from our first baseman.

Post #9 » by **The Duke** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:19 pm

It suck we lost the close bid, but now that its over.

I dont want to be trading away our top prospects for some of these starters.

The real appeal of Yu, was that he wouldnt have cost us any of our talent.

If you get Prince then its a different situation... but thats low odds of happening.

rarefind · Post #10 » by **rarefind** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:22 pm

I'm curious if us failing to get Darvish gives AA more steam to pursue Cespedes. Assuming that this team is going after Prince may be pretty problematic unless his price falls down to pennies. At least Cespedes if his age is correct would fit the Jays for the same reasoning as Darvish. (age, controllable, high ceiling). Yes I get that Darvish is a pitcher and Cespedes is an outfielder but at least he may very well be another piece.

I do understand that we have a glut of outfielders but I'd imagine that a trade may happen and Ben Francisco and Rajai Davis should not be counted.

rarefind · Post #11 » by **rarefind** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:33 pm

And agreed, no point in making a half-assed effort now. Let's see what the young rotation does this year unless we are getting a guy who can be a fixture as a part of the rotation going forward.

Post #12 » by **The Duke** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:35 pm

rarefind wrote:Assuming that this team is going after Prince may be pretty problematic unless his price falls down to pennies.

Why do you think Prince stock is falling? Its not.

I would pay an utra premium to get Prince on a 6 year deal. (6/155M) without even thinking twice.

gei · Post #13 » by **gei** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:38 pm

Trade Bautista and Romero for some prospects. Shed some more salary to help us meet payroll parameters and to give us flexibility going forward. Plan to be competitive within the next 5 years while we go through some rebuilding years.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Parataxis · Post #14 » by **Parataxis** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:39 pm

g_greg wrote:Worst thing that can happen right now is AA gets antsy and makes a stupid signing or trade to appease some fans.

How would that appease fans? If anything (if reading this forum is a fair example) that would only piss more fans off.

It's a strawman to suggest that the fans just want him to make a move for the sake of making a move - they don't. Fans want him to be willing to spend to improve the team and put us into contention - not to spend pointlessly or to give away the farm for mediocre players.

rarefind · Post #15 » by **rarefind** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:42 pm

Prince's price is already discounted considering the likes of the Yankees and Red Sox are not interested. Teams are not falling over each other at this point to try and sign him either. The only team willing it seems to give him what he wants is Seattle, and who wants to go there? Boras has historically got teams to pay ridiculous amounts for players even in weak demand for their services, so we will see.

But I can really see Prince taking a 5 year deal under the premise that he can become a free agent again at a decent age. I would do it, even if the contract is laden with player opt-outs.

Post #16 » by **The Duke** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:46 pm

rarefind wrote:Prince's price is already discounted considering the likes of the Yankees and Red Sox are not interested.

Just because Yanks/Sox claim to not be interested does not diminish his value and his potential contract value much.

All it is going to cost to get him is money, a team does not give up any talent to get him. Thats is something that is huge regardless if its a big market or small market, whether your propect pool is big or small.

kwamebargnani · Post #17 » by **kwamebargnani** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 7:50 pm

Only one I'd go after is Garza. Rest can **** off

rarefind · Post #18 » by **rarefind** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:32 pm

The Duke wrote:
rarefind wrote:Prince's price is already discounted considering the likes of the Yankees and Red Sox are not interested.

Just because Yanks/Sox claim to not be interested does not diminish his value and his potential contract value much.

All it is going to cost to get him is money, a team does not give up any talent to get him. Thats is something that is huge regardless if its a big market or small market, whether your propect pool is big or small.

I guess we will see, won't we?

CapeCrusader · Post #19 » by **CapeCrusader** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:34 pm

Gio and Garza are appealing. Gio is still young and all, but he still has a lot to prove before trading a bunch of talented prosepects for him. Garza at this point in his career is the best he is going to be, so unless we can get him for dirt cheap I say forget about him.

Post #20 » by **LittleOzzy** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 8:44 pm

I'm more interested in what plan D will be next season or plan G in 2013.

I'm getting sick or always thinking about next year when it comes to teams in Toronto. It's really getting to me that we can't produce a winner in any way.

All my hopes lay with TFC right now that they can get past L.A. in Champions League.