Yu Darvish: the Decision. We lose! Rangers win!

[Truthrising]

Most of the tone has been good and discussions have been engaging. a few of you, though, are really crossing the line.

post without insulting other posters or calling them names like "idiot" or "hey little boy" or saying they have "thick skulls".

we moderators (and posters) treat this board differently than the Raptors' board and it works out well. please don't ruin it by name calling.

Gotcha, let me say one thing. For every action there's a reaction, it goes both ways.

[WpgPage]

As one of the major "Rogers Apologists" I would like to say that it's not like we don't want the team to win, nor is it that we think Rogers never spending money on the team is ok. I think most posters on that side of the line just believe that this team is not ready to make that jump yet. I personally think that this team needs to get close to the playoffs through internal development and effective trades first and then go out and sign FA's. I understand that people will have different views on how to build the team but that's my personal opinion. It doesn't mean I love Rogers or I never expect them to spend money, trust me if AA builds this team into a solid contender and Rogers wont shell out the cash to resign our current talent or add the 1 more player I will be furious.

[Strav]

Zaun's on Fan590 right now. Saying not a bad thing that the Jays lost out on Darvish bid. Said he's unproven and track record with Japanese pitchers coming to North America hasn't been good. Thinks we should do whatever it takes to get Fielder. Said it would be a division changing type of signing. Thinks that free agency is the way to build championships, not through trades.

Only Zaun can say something so mind numbingly stupid

Well, looking back the last time we won the trophy the Jays did exactly that. So it's not so dumb really.

[WpgPage]

They spent after they already had a team that made the playoffs they spent to get over the top.

[Skin Blues]

Zaun's on Fan590 right now. Saying not a bad thing that the Jays lost out on Darvish bid. Said he's unproven and track record with Japanese pitchers coming to North America hasn't been good. Thinks we should do whatever it takes to get Fielder. Said it would be a division changing type of signing. Thinks that free agency is the way to build championships, not through trades.

Only Zaun can say something so mind numbingly stupid

Well, looking back the last time we won the trophy the Jays did exactly that. So it's not so dumb really.

Those World Series teams had tons of players acquired by trade. Henderson, Cone, Alomar, Carter, White, Maldonado, Ward, Henke, Leiter, Guzman. Lots of homegrowns too; Stieb, Wells, Hentgen, Key Borders. The only major FAs were Molitor, Winfield, Morris and Stewart, I believe. And Dave Stewart was terrible by that point.

[Mattd97]

what a silly argument - you go after talent however its available. obviously not giving up pieces is preferable to giving up pieces, but its not like one way is a bad way. the point is to get talent. prince fielder is talent, if you can get him you do it. it shouldnt make a difference if we sign him now, or if we trade 3 prospects, a starter and a journeyman for him after he signs.

[gei]

Most of the tone has been good and discussions have been engaging. a few of you, though, are really crossing the line.

post without insulting other posters or calling them names like "idiot" or "hey little boy" or saying they have "thick skulls".

we moderators (and posters) treat this board differently than the Raptors' board and it works out well. please don't ruin it by name calling.

I think the lack of "over-moderating" makes the Jays board much more enjoyable vs the Raps board. There's nothing wrong with heated/passionate discussion... even with a few jabs tossed in here and there.

[torontoaces04]

what a silly argument - you go after talent however its available. obviously not giving up pieces is preferable to giving up pieces, but its not like one way is a bad way. the point is to get talent. prince fielder is talent, if you can get him you do it. it shouldnt make a difference if we sign him now, or if we trade 3 prospects, a starter and a journeyman for him after he signs.

I agree. Even if you agree or disagree that the Jays are close to competing, it can't be argued that the Jays wouldn't be a better team with Prince in the line-up. If signing Prince Fielder cost 5mill/per, I don't think you'd find a single person who wouldn't say YES PLEASE. Obviously, he's not coming that cheap, so the question then becomes, is he worth the money?

I say yes, for a lot of the reasons Mattd97 stated above. Prince Fielder is one of the top 5 offensive players in the game of baseball today. To acquire a player of his stature in a trade, we're sending 3 of our top 4 prospects (Gose,Marisnick,D'Arnaud,Norris...take your pick) plus 1, maybe 2 young bats from the Majors (Escobar,Thames,Rasmus,etc...). All it costs to sign Prince right now is money, and lots of it. But what is worse? Giving Prince a year more than you'd like, or a couple million more than you'd like per year, or trading away half the farm for a player of the same stature?

If I were AA, I'd give Fielder 1 or 2 more years, or 2-4mill more than you'd like per year, if it means keeping those names mentioned above in the system. AA has made it clear he doesn't have a "bottomless pit" of money, so we aren't signing Fielder....so I guess all of this was a moot point....I'm going to bed.

[Strav]

Those World Series teams had tons of players acquired by trade. Henderson, Cone, Alomar, Carter, White, Maldonado, Ward, Henke, Leiter, Guzman. Lots of homegrowns too; Stieb, Wells, Hentgen, Key Borders. The only major FAs were Molitor, Winfield, Morris and Stewart, I believe. And Dave Stewart was terrible by that point.

that's a pretty good crop of FA's though no, and they spent some dough making player salary at that time tops in the league.

[Schad]

Those World Series teams had tons of players acquired by trade. Henderson, Cone, Alomar, Carter, White, Maldonado, Ward, Henke, Leiter, Guzman. Lots of homegrowns too; Stieb, Wells, Hentgen, Key Borders. The only major FAs were Molitor, Winfield, Morris and Stewart, I believe. And Dave Stewart was terrible by that point.

And the free agents were added after the team had already begun to experience success. It's the model that the organization has explicitly stated that it wishes to follow...I do think that the sheer enormity of making the playoffs in the AL East (which is harder in a three-division AL with an unbalanced schedule than it was in the much larger AL East then, really) means that the success point at which you start targeting big FAs ought to be earlier, though. We're currently on a path that should give us a young nucleus similar to the late-80s/early-90s version by 2015 or 2016, but I don't think that we necessarily have to wait for that point to start making additions.

[Skin Blues]

Those World Series teams had tons of players acquired by trade. Henderson, Cone, Alomar, Carter, White, Maldonado, Ward, Henke, Leiter, Guzman. Lots of homegrowns too; Stieb, Wells, Hentgen, Key Borders. The only major FAs were Molitor, Winfield, Morris and Stewart, I believe. And Dave Stewart was terrible by that point.

that's a pretty good crop of FA's though no, and they spent some dough making player salary at that time tops in the league.

Of course they had a few free agents, but the core of the team was acquired via trade. I'm in favour of spending money on free agents, by the way. But clearly, trades can work out pretty well because of the short commitment they allow. There's also less competition on mid-season trades because rosters are already set. There aren't the same kinds of bidding wars due to inflexibility of rosters and payroll.

[Parataxis]

Most of the tone has been good and discussions have been engaging. a few of you, though, are really crossing the line.

post without insulting other posters or calling them names like "idiot" or "hey little boy" or saying they have "thick skulls".

we moderators (and posters) treat this board differently than the Raptors' board and it works out well. please don't ruin it by name calling.

I think the lack of "over-moderating" makes the Jays board much more enjoyable vs the Raps board. There's nothing wrong with heated/passionate discussion... even with a few jabs tossed in here and there.

What do the jabs possibly add to the discussion? You can have a heated/passionate discussion without treating your opponent like a turd.

[bigdirty]

There's an article about the Rangers possibly going after Fielder. Can you imagine if they got Darvish and Fielder? lawl Just fold the Jays if that happens.

[ItsDanger]

What are the odds that Darvish & Rangers cant come to an agreement on a contract? I assume low, like 5% but maybe he's goign to try to milk this opportunity.

[WpgPage]

Well I would agree that signing Fielder would make the team much better that's for sure. I also don't think that Fielder will be a terrible signing like some I think whatever team gets him will overpay and he will be pretty useless in the last 3-4 years of a ten year deal but overall I think whatever team gets him will look at it like the Ryan Howard deal, Not worth what he got but still pretty darn good so oh well. The fear I have with signing him now is that other players fall off and the next wave of talent isn't ready to hack it in the bigs yet. You could be looking at a situation where you got the best 2 or 3 years out of Price got no results and are now looking at needing to deal a declining asset for penny's on the dollar. This risk is increased by the number of high risk high reward players we have in the system put it all together and you have a scenario that sets the team back years. Again I don't think this will happen I think a lot of our you guys will figure it out, but its a risk that I don't think AA will or should take.