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More agent talk or are Jays interested in Carlos Beltran?

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Re: More agent talk or are Jays interested in Carlos Beltran 

Post#121 » by satyr9 » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:38 pm

dagger wrote:Agreed, you can't argue with Beltran's decision. However, it reinforced a point I've been making for months - that we're not a contender, so there is a glass ceiling of sorts that will have to be broken before we ever land a significant free agent. A lot of free agents wouldn't like to go to a mediocre team in the AL East. To get one, we're going to have to overpay the way the Nationals did with Werth last season. The Nationals paid that premium to be seen as a "serious destination". A free agent isn't going to be swayed by AA's organic growth strategy. Toronto fans have no choice but to be patient, but better free agents have a choice, and if it looks like Toronto won't be a contender for two, three or four years, they won't even give the Jays a second thought.

A perennial non-playoff team won't get the attention of free agents without making a splash or having a good narrative to make clear that there is a change of strategy to be more aggressive. For the Marlins, it's a new stadium. For another, it could be a big TV deal. Then they go big and force themselves into the free agent discussion as serious players. Free agents stop asking themselves "Why Miami?" and start asking "Why not Miami"

It pretty well works like that in all sports. You need money and/or a very strong appeal to attract the coveted free agents. The Jays don't appear to have either.

But they are willing to let the team's name be associated with every major free agent, which to me, after another winter of this, amounts to disrespecting your fans.


I can't believe you're basing your argument off the Jayson Werth signing as something the Jays should do.
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Re: More agent talk or are Jays interested in Carlos Beltran 

Post#122 » by Fairview4Life » Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:42 pm

cosmostein wrote:So basically another season of watching Lind hit clean-up?


Just like E5 playing 3rd, or Rajai Davis playing CF, there aren't any guarantees Lind is hitting cleanup all year. As the lineup stands today, that might even be Lawrie anyway.
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Re: More agent talk or are Jays interested in Carlos Beltran 

Post#123 » by dagger » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:13 pm

satyr9 wrote:
dagger wrote:Agreed, you can't argue with Beltran's decision. However, it reinforced a point I've been making for months - that we're not a contender, so there is a glass ceiling of sorts that will have to be broken before we ever land a significant free agent. A lot of free agents wouldn't like to go to a mediocre team in the AL East. To get one, we're going to have to overpay the way the Nationals did with Werth last season. The Nationals paid that premium to be seen as a "serious destination". A free agent isn't going to be swayed by AA's organic growth strategy. Toronto fans have no choice but to be patient, but better free agents have a choice, and if it looks like Toronto won't be a contender for two, three or four years, they won't even give the Jays a second thought.

A perennial non-playoff team won't get the attention of free agents without making a splash or having a good narrative to make clear that there is a change of strategy to be more aggressive. For the Marlins, it's a new stadium. For another, it could be a big TV deal. Then they go big and force themselves into the free agent discussion as serious players. Free agents stop asking themselves "Why Miami?" and start asking "Why not Miami"

It pretty well works like that in all sports. You need money and/or a very strong appeal to attract the coveted free agents. The Jays don't appear to have either.

But they are willing to let the team's name be associated with every major free agent, which to me, after another winter of this, amounts to disrespecting your fans.


I can't believe you're basing your argument off the Jayson Werth signing as something the Jays should do.


I'm saying if you want a top grade guy it's something the Jays may have to do. It's like that with every sport. Building/Rebuilding teams have to make statement signings, usually involving overpayment, to reorient the thinking of the marketplace.
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Re: More agent talk or are Jays interested in Carlos Beltran 

Post#124 » by MikeM » Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:48 pm

I think you just offer them money. Isn't that what we did under Ricciardi?
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Re: More agent talk or are Jays interested in Carlos Beltran 

Post#125 » by Morris_Shatford » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:26 pm

Fairview4Life wrote:
cosmostein wrote:So basically another season of watching Lind hit clean-up?


Just like E5 playing 3rd, or Rajai Davis playing CF, there aren't any guarantees Lind is hitting cleanup all year. As the lineup stands today, that might even be Lawrie anyway.


I would enjoy Lawrie keeping up the pace he had and park him as the five spot, sandwiching a monster bat between him and Jose.
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Re: More agent talk or are Jays interested in Carlos Beltran 

Post#126 » by Morris_Shatford » Fri Dec 23, 2011 7:30 pm

torontoaces04 wrote:
What's worse, there's Wilner, suckling at Rogers' teat.

Wilnerness590 Mike Wilner
2/$25MM with full no-trade isn't a miss, it's a bullet dodged. @drwaldo007: @Wilnerness590 another miss by the Jays....
17 minutes ago



Is 12.5m or 13m considered overpayment for a guy who hit .300/22/84 last season?
Especially on a two year contract?
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Re: More agent talk or are Jays interested in Carlos Beltran 

Post#127 » by dagger » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:08 pm

cosmostein wrote:
torontoaces04 wrote:
What's worse, there's Wilner, suckling at Rogers' teat.

Wilnerness590 Mike Wilner
2/$25MM with full no-trade isn't a miss, it's a bullet dodged. @drwaldo007: @Wilnerness590 another miss by the Jays....
17 minutes ago



Is 12.5m or 13m considered overpayment for a guy who hit .300/22/84 last season?
Especially on a two year contract?


As I've said, with all of this new TV money coming in or committed, salaries - whether for free agents or to keep your own players - are trending upwards. It's contract length that's important here, and Beltran's deal would have been perfect for us since some of our best outfield prospects are one or more years away and will need a year or two to establish themselves when they get here. I really, truly can't understand the dodge-a-bullet thing. What's the bullet exactly? That it precluded us from chasing after another high-end free agent AA is not really targeting? I can't imagine how Wilner would twist himself into a pretzel if we were to sign Fielder on Boras's terms.
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Re: More agent talk or are Jays interested in Carlos Beltran 

Post#128 » by Kurtz » Fri Dec 23, 2011 8:43 pm

Looks like Cleveland was the other big bidder for Beltran, not Toronto.
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Re: More agent talk or are Jays interested in Carlos Beltran 

Post#129 » by StringerBell » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:04 pm

Wo1verine wrote:
Fairview4Life wrote:
StringerBell wrote:Yeah Wilner is the biggest of pricks..... but not landing Beltran isn't a big deal. Whats the point in spending $13M/yr on a 35 yr old rental?


To get a good hitter behind Bautista in the lineup so the Blue Jays can win more baseball games.

It's as simple as that, haha


I don't think it should be as simple as that. I'm of the opinion that they either go all in and sign Prince and trade for a top of the rotation starter or ride out next season with the kids. Signing aging injury prone vets to help the team win a couple of extra games is pointless. I'd rather give those AB's to Snider or Thames to really get a better idea of their potential. Beltran sure as hell wasn't going to turn the team into a playoff team and wouldn't figure into the long term plans of the team.
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Re: More agent talk or are Jays interested in Carlos Beltran 

Post#130 » by StringerBell » Fri Dec 23, 2011 9:07 pm

I can't believe some of you are getting your panties in a knot cause they didn't sign Beltran. Lets's see if he even plays 120 games in 2012.

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