Warriors/Thunder - Harden for Ellis

DreDay · Post #1 » by **DreDay** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:03 am

Warriors trade/Thunder receive:
Monta Ellis

Warriors receive/Thunder trade:
James Harden
Nate Robinson (bought out by GSW instead of OKC)

Why for Warriors:
This is as good of a package as Ellis can draw. Harden and Curry will work well and set them up for the future.

Curry
Harden
Wright
Lee
Biedrins

Why for Thunder:
Ellis is a better player than Harden on a good contract. Him and Westbrook will make an incredible backcourt and along with Durant have one of the best cores in the NBA.

Westbrook
Ellis
Durant
Ibaka
Perkins

Post #2 » by **Foshan** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:28 am

No way OKC takes Ellis, he's like the exact opposite of what they are looking for character wise in building their team.

Post #3 » by **VintaGe36** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:49 am

James Harden is being criminally underrated IMO. Honestly? If the playoffs are any kind of indication, I'd hold Harden just as highly as I'd hold Westbrook.

Ian Kognitow · Post #4 » by **Ian Kognitow** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 12:00 pm

Foshan wrote:No way OKC takes Ellis, he's like the exact opposite of what they are looking for character wise in building their team.

Besides that--and since I'd say that, at this point, if OKC were to make any move it would be to put them over-the-top for a championship-run, rather than just 'building their team'--Ellis would represent someone whose primary skill-set (pure scoring) is one thing OKC would absolutely *not* be seeking, while already having Durant/Westbrook and with perhaps their main concern only being whether Westbrook himself can content himself with being a 2nd-option.
--If anything (and, again, it's questionable OKC would want to do anything unless the scenario were overwhelmingly compelling for them) OKC would probably only make a trade right now, especially one involving Harden, if it brought in a superior shooter or a superior playmaker (the latter moving Westbrook to SG). In that respect, one obvious objection here would be that, *if* OKC were entertaining any trade of Harden to GS, it would almost certainly be for *Curry*, who would represent a superior shooter to space the floor for Durant/Westbrook, while also being able to switch-off with Westbrook acting as the primary ball-handler, as might be desirable for particular sets and in creating mismatches.
--And even though there would be interesting prospects for both sides on a Harden-for-Curry deal, it's highly questionable if either side would agree to that right now.

Triumph36 · Post #5 » by **Triumph36** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:29 pm

Foshan wrote:No way OKC takes Ellis, he's like the exact opposite of what they are looking for character wise in building their team.

+1

VintaGe36 wrote:James Harden is being criminally underrated IMO. Honestly? If the playoffs are any kind of indication, I'd hold Harden just as highly as I'd hold Westbrook.

and +1

Though basing anything on a small sample size like the playoffs is pretty much pointless. That said, Harden is my pick for Most Improved Player and Sixth Man of the Year this yr.

old rem · Post #6 » by **old rem** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:30 pm

VintaGe36 wrote:James Harden is being criminally underrated IMO. Honestly? If the playoffs are any kind of indication, I'd hold Harden just as highly as I'd hold Westbrook.

Harden has a handfull of games on his resume of some note when in favorable matchups he almost matched what's AVERAGE STUFF for Ellis over the past 4-5 yr. What makes this even more of a dud....GSW (who's used their amnesty) gets stuck with Nate,so the one plus...salary saved...is less.
Obviously.......when GSW had played OKC before, Reggie Williams not only looked a lot like Harden...but played about equal...yet GSW didn't bother to keep Reggie.

You can find the raw numbers. Harden can shoot + score but....kids....this is comparing tennis balls to bowling balls....one has a low more weight...impact...and that's easily Ellis. Swap the two and I bet GSW does not beat OKC ONCE...in the next 5 years. Now....if I'm GSW....is that my best idea?
Am I looking to make OKC even MORE formidable when already they look like the team to beat for many more years??? Here....OKC fails to even show GSW the minimal respect of adding in a useful filler...their late #1....a pat on the head...free beer.....whatever. This is a bitch-slap and how ANY GSW fan is fine with that....I don't get.

Post #7 » by **dockingsched** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:39 pm

harden is simply worth more and to top it off ellis is not a good fit next to westbrook.

old rem · Post #8 » by **old rem** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:44 pm

Triumph36 wrote:
Foshan wrote:No way OKC takes Ellis, he's like the exact opposite of what they are looking for character wise in building their team.
+1

VintaGe36 wrote:James Harden is being criminally underrated IMO. Honestly? If the playoffs are any kind of indication, I'd hold Harden just as highly as I'd hold Westbrook.
and +1

Though basing anything on a small sample size like the playoffs is pretty much pointless. That said, Harden is my pick for Most Improved Player and Sixth Man of the Year this yr.

Yeah right....having THREE guys who'd scored 20-30 pt per would be a bother....oh wait....isn't that kind of what teams look to do?

Harden criminally under-rated? Uh......not really. He underperformed until some good playoff games. Otherwise he didn't match up to Wes Matthews, was just a notch above Marco Belinnelli.

If...and the facts are not out.....just rumors,allegations....Monta was excessive in some sort of tacky flirtation....that sucks and yet it's not something that freaks me out about him as a PLAYER.
I don't see Kobe dumped by the Lakers.

Whatever.....no competent GM gives this dud a thought ,from GSW's side. From OKC's side...they jump at the chance to flip a platoon G for a multi threat young star.

If GSW did this...throw me in as filler because I'd be giving up on GSW.

Devilanche · Post #9 » by **Devilanche** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:53 pm

old rem wrote:Whatever.....no competent GM gives this dud a thought ,from GSW's side. From OKC's side...they jump at the chance to flip a platoon G for a multi threat young star.

Harden's potential is being highly valued(over?) right now but no way OKC does this unless we're allowed to play with 2 or 3 balls. There's just not enough shots to go around with Westbrook/Ellis/Durant, and that's before Ellis being undersized for the SG position.

Coxy · Post #10 » by **Coxy** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 4:54 pm

No thanks. Harden isn't worth Ellis. His contract is smaller, but that's about it.

don nelson · Post #11 » by **don nelson** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:17 pm

Coxy wrote:No thanks. Harden isn't worth Ellis. His contract is smaller, but that's about it.

+1

Krodis · Post #12 » by **Krodis** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:15 pm

Monta Ellis is an inefficient chucker who doesn't play defense and I'd only take him for free. Of course he's going to score 20+ if he's allowed to take 20 shots a game.

RAPM:

1 year:
Harden +0.9
Ellis -2.9

10 year:
Harden +3.4
Ellis -0.7

Harden also had more Win Shares and WS/48 last year.

There's no way I even think about considering this for OKC. You can overrate your chucking combo guard all you want, but I'm not buying it.

This isn't even considering that Westbrook + Ellis is an appallingly bad fit.

RoyalWun · Post #13 » by **RoyalWun** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:22 pm

If OKC were to trade Harden for Ellis, I'd no longer consider them favorites in the West.

LoyalKing · Post #14 » by **LoyalKing** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:28 pm

OKC are not favorites with or without Harden. They may win more games in the regular season, but in the playoffs, the Mavs and the Lakers are still the favorites.

Plus, Harden is insanely overrated for a role player that hasn't even be able to beat Thabo Sefolosha out of the starting lineup.

GSW says no as quick as they can. Harden will never be as good as Monta.

Coxy · Post #15 » by **Coxy** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:41 pm

LoyalKing wrote:Plus, Harden is insanely overrated for a role player that hasn't even be able to beat Thabo Sefolosha out of the starting lineup.

GSW says no as quick as they can. Harden will never be as good as Monta.

Word.

Monta **** on Harden.

RoyalWun · Post #16 » by **RoyalWun** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:55 pm

LoyalKing wrote:OKC are not favorites with or without Harden. They may win more games in the regular season, but in the playoffs, the Mavs and the Lakers are still the favorites.

Plus, Harden is insanely overrated for a role player that hasn't even be able to beat Thabo Sefolosha out of the starting lineup.

GSW says no as quick as they can. Harden will never be as good as Monta.

Is this serious?

Coxy · Post #17 » by **Coxy** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:39 pm

RoyalWun wrote:
LoyalKing wrote:OKC are not favorites with or without Harden. They may win more games in the regular season, but in the playoffs, the Mavs and the Lakers are still the favorites.

Plus, Harden is insanely overrated for a role player that hasn't even be able to beat Thabo Sefolosha out of the starting lineup.

GSW says no as quick as they can. Harden will never be as good as Monta.

Is this serious?

Pretty exact really.

Triumph36 · Post #18 » by **Triumph36** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:45 pm

old rem wrote:
Triumph36 wrote:
Foshan wrote:No way OKC takes Ellis, he's like the exact opposite of what they are looking for character wise in building their team.
+1

VintaGe36 wrote:James Harden is being criminally underrated IMO. Honestly? If the playoffs are any kind of indication, I'd hold Harden just as highly as I'd hold Westbrook.
and +1

Though basing anything on a small sample size like the playoffs is pretty much pointless. That said, Harden is my pick for Most Improved Player and Sixth Man of the Year this yr.

Yeah right....having THREE guys who'd scored 20-30 pt per would be a bother....oh wait....isn't that kind of what teams look to do?

Harden criminally under-rated? Uh......not really. He underperformed until some good playoff games. Otherwise he didn't match up to Wes Matthews, was just a notch above Marco Belinnelli.

Actually um, no, teams don't look to do that. At least, good teams don't. Teams don't win because they put up tons of points. They win because of defense. Haven't you learned anything from watching the Warriors put up lots of points but constantly suck year after year? Come on now. OKC doesn't need a chucker who doesn't play defense.

LoyalKing wrote:OKC are not favorites with or without Harden. They may win more games in the regular season, but in the playoffs, the Mavs and the Lakers are still the favorites.

Plus, Harden is insanely overrated for a role player that hasn't even be able to beat Thabo Sefolosha out of the starting lineup.

GSW says no as quick as they can. Harden will never be as good as Monta.

lolllllll

lakerhater · Post #19 » by **lakerhater** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:15 pm

Krodis wrote:Monta Ellis blah, blah, blah. Of course he's going to score 20+ if he's allowed to take 20 shots a game.

Ellis has already proven that he can score 20 a game on a winning team while being a 2nd or 3rd option getting about 15 shots a game.

old rem · Post #20 » by **old rem** » Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:17 pm

lakerhater wrote:
Krodis wrote:Monta Ellis blah, blah, blah. Of course he's going to score 20+ if he's allowed to take 20 shots a game.

Ellis has already proven that he can score 20 a game on a winning team while being a 2nd or 3rd option getting about 15 shots a game.

Last year Harden had ONE game above 24 pt. Ellis just had TWO ...SEASONS above 24 ppg. GSW gets internet...they can look this stuff up. Harden isn't a higher FG % guy...and why do you think Thabo gets half the SG minutes? Because Thabo is the DEFENSE guy.

We're talking SHOOTING guards here. Even a child can figure that the guys who make the baskets...get the big $, get the news. A lot of centers now ARE defensive specialists and rebounders but even there there's a scale where they get extra hype if they can just get 15 ppg (like Nene). Were he an 8 ppg guy....his next contract would be a lot smaller.

Anyone think NYK gave half the team for Melo...for anything but his scoring...or that they would LIKE him to just shoot 10 shots a night? At the end of the game GSW has to have SOMEONE scoring points. You can't trot out a lineup of 12 a game guys and hope to win. Spare the BS....there is NO logical excuse for GSW to consider this. Desperation only leads to more desperation,and stupid is it's own reward.