Warriors/Thunder - Harden for Ellis

[turk3d]

Harden has the huge advantage of playing next to Durant (top 3 and league leading scorer in the NBA) and Westbrook, two of the best players in the league (not to mention legitimate big men in Ibaka and Perkins). Put Monta in that circumstance (and put Harden on the Warriors) and then we'll see who's efficiency goes up and whose goes down.

This is why stats don't tell the whole story and present a pretty weak argument, Can't imagine how much higher Monta's efficiency would be playing next to KD where he wasn't the guy who opposing teams focused all their defensive energy on.

There really aren't many examples of low efficiency players becoming high efficiency players when being moved to better teams. People said the same thing about Al Jefferson, but when he got to Utah with Deron Williams, his efficiency was still very poor.

Also, Win Shares ad Wins Produced are advanced statistics. James Harden doesn't automatically win those stats because he's on a better team. (For example, I believe Kevin Love led the league in Wins Produced last year)

Kevin Love was the best rebounder in the league and I think rebounder is a very important aspect to the game and helps make for winning.

So then does the same hold true for high efficiency guys going down in efficiency (Monta was the highest efficiency shooting guard in the league on the Warriors We Believe team if I'm not mistaken shooting 53% fg%).

Are you saying that the high % drop was not directly proportional from playing with Baron Davis, Stephen Jackson, prime Jason Richardson and Andris Biedrins during his best years?

Al Jefferson was a PF being forced to play out of position at Center which is why his efficiency went down. Actually, in checking his advanced stats AJs efficiency did not go down that much (efG% went from 50.2% career to 49.6% and TS% went from 53.4% career to 52.8%).

[Lost Angel]

people are forgetting that Monta Ellis is NOT a first option.

but as a second or third option, he is extremely dangerous. Durant-Ellis would be a sick, sick combo.

[WhatsaTDot]

I saw the words over rated appear in this thread but they were associated with the wrong guy.

[old rem]

people are forgetting that Monta Ellis is NOT a first option.

but as a second or third option, he is extremely dangerous. Durant-Ellis would be a sick, sick combo.

On most teams a guy who can score 30 + often.....is a first option. If you have a Durant.....he's your first option normally, though matchups can shift that.

For GSW ...of course....Harden would not be a first or second option. For what he does, GSW just drafted Thompson. No point overpaying for Harden...or OJ Mayo...or Wes Matthews or Wes Johnson or any other hyped 4th option G who's not even close to Ellis. What OKC wants...is up to them. They can keep Harden FOREVER. I don't mind at all.

[turk3d]

Harden may very well wind up an impact player but is not worth Ellis at this point. If you feel he is that good, maybe you should try and get Eric Gordon for him.

[Ian Kognitow]

people are forgetting that Monta Ellis is NOT a first option.

but as a second or third option, he is extremely dangerous. Durant-Ellis would be a sick, sick combo.

On most teams a guy who can score 30 + often.....is a first option. If you have a Durant.....he's your first option normally, though matchups can shift that.

For GSW ...of course....

Hey, don't sell Ellis short. Like with LAL's lineage of having superstar centers, Ellis has, for several years now, *strongly* been carrying the traditional mantle of being a GS first-option/league-leading scorer. He easily can be thought of as being in the same company as illustrious Warriors like Purvis Short, Latrell Sprewell, Larry Hughes, Antawn Jamison, and Jason Richardson.

[old rem]

people are forgetting that Monta Ellis is NOT a first option.

but as a second or third option, he is extremely dangerous. Durant-Ellis would be a sick, sick combo.

On most teams a guy who can score 30 + often.....is a first option. If you have a Durant.....he's your first option normally, though matchups can shift that.

For GSW ...of course....

Hey, don't sell Ellis short. Like with LAL's lineage of having superstar centers, Ellis has, for several years now, *strongly* been carrying the traditional mantle of being a GS first-option/league-leading scorer. He easily can be thought of as being in the same company as illustrious Warriors like Purvis Short, Latrell Sprewell, Larry Hughes, Antawn Jamison, and Jason Richardson.

Actually, closer to Chris Mullin, Bernard King, Mitch Richmond. None of who you mentioned had close to the total impact...or they'd have stayed longer. Hughes wasn't that much. A Jamision was good at score-rebound and never any use on D. J Rich was better before his knee injury. Purvis was and is under-rated but NOT a 24-25+ guy.

Mullin was the last guy who like Monta could get 24-25 per,also pass well, have some total impact but I don't see something BETTER offered. I see a wing no better that those who've come and gone on a regular basis. I assume you are in sarcasm mode...but if you think Harden is a star...make a bid. We don't need a guard now.

[azwfan]

Harden has the huge advantage of playing next to Durant (top 3 and league leading scorer in the NBA) and Westbrook, two of the best players in the league (not to mention legitimate big men in Ibaka and Perkins). Put Monta in that circumstance (and put Harden on the Warriors) and then we'll see who's efficiency goes up and whose goes down.

This is why stats don't tell the whole story and present a pretty weak argument, Can't imagine how much higher Monta's efficiency would be playing next to KD where he wasn't the guy who opposing teams focused all their defensive energy on.

There really aren't many examples of low efficiency players becoming high efficiency players when being moved to better teams. People said the same thing about Al Jefferson, but when he got to Utah with Deron Williams, his efficiency was still very poor.

Also, Win Shares ad Wins Produced are advanced statistics. James Harden doesn't automatically win those stats because he's on a better team. (For example, I believe Kevin Love led the league in Wins Produced last year)

Ellis in his 3rd year was on a decent team. He was in a similar situation as Harden. Except he avg'd bout 20ppg on 53% fg. Yes, being the #1 option makes a difference.

[FNQ]

I'd likely do this trade and see if we can keep Harden in the 6th man role.. move Klay into the starting lineup and see if that makes our 2nd unit stronger.

[Darth Tyrannus]

Sadly Monta does not bring what Mullin did when he was on the Warriors, to the playoffs for 5 years straight. So his impact is severly less.

[lakerhater]

What were you drinking during the 84-85 and 85-86 seasons old rem? Must have been seriously strong because Purvis used his rainbow J to get 28 and 25.5 a game during those 2 seasons.

[old rem]

Sadly Monta does not bring what Mullin did when he was on the Warriors, to the playoffs for 5 years straight. So his impact is severly less.

Tonight GSW beat the Bulls and Monta...by plenty...outplayed D Rose (MVP) as did Curry.

I guess Blake Griffin and Kevin Love are nothing...since they were on losing teams last year?
Good to know, maybe we can get them cheap.

Whatever. GSW just beat a top East team, led all the way, and the Ellis-Curry backcourt was dominating.
What's the problem? I don't see any. How was Harden's last game? 26 pt and 7 asst? No?
Star of The Game? No? Okay....get back to me in a few years.

[old rem]

What were you drinking during the 84-85 and 85-86 seasons old rem? Must have been seriously strong because Purvis used his rainbow J to get 28 and 25.5 a game during those 2 seasons.

Ah yes...the details of those years are a bit fuzzy now...must have been sumpin' in that Kool-Aid.
I remember liking Purvis' shooting...didn't remember him getting 28 per. Real fine shooter.