MIN - NOH - PHI .. Contender

[shrink]

Tip of the hat to Danimal. This trade is after NOH trade the MIN 1st

MIN GIVES: Derrick Williams + Wes Johnson + Anthony Randolph + B Miller + Webster + UTA 1st + MEM 1st
MIN GETS: Eric Gordon + Andre Iguodala + Emeka Okafor

NOH GIVES: Gordon + Okafor + Ariza
NOH GETS: Derrick Williams + Anthony Randolph + B Miller + Webster + MEM 1st

IND GIVES: Andre Iguodala
IND GETS: Wes Johnson + Ariza + UTA 1st

WHY FOR NOH: I've discussed why Williams would be very attractive to NOH in other threads. Okafor and Ariza account for $60 mil in salary the next three years, and I can't imagine the 29 owners want to pay it, when NOH can't draw enough attendance to stay afloat. This may be overpaying.

WHY FOR PHI: Reasonable fans from PHI and MIN recognize Iguodala's a good fit here, and we agree that he's overpaid (we squabble by how much). This deal helps stem that problem, with both sides taking a bit of the bite.

If the 76ers will trade Iguodala for Wes Johnson + Webster + BMiller + UTA 1st + $20 mil in savings ..

.. replacing Webster + BMiller with Ariza's three year deal leaves this:

Iguodala for Wes Johnson + Ariza + UTA 1st + $8.5 mil in savings.

That seems fair to me, and if PHI likes the original, I think they can get the difference ($4 mil/yr) in production out of Ariza. Nocioni expires this year anyway.

WHY FOR MIN: This is the expensive, three-year plan. I don't know if Glen Taylor would jump from last year's economic losses to tinkling with the lux in years 2 and 3, but the line-up is scary. I also would point out that being a contender right now may help us attract legit free agents down the road, before the league becomes stratified into 6 haves and 24 have-nots:

Rubio / Ridnour / Lee
Gordon / Barea / Ellington
Iguodala / Beasley
Love / Tolliver
Okafor / Darko / Pek

[shangrila]

I would do it. I kind of doubt the Hornets would do it. Gordon > Williams.

[moss_is_1]

Done deal for me. That would be a really nice team to watch...and we'd still have some solid depth.

[Krapinsky]

No Wolves fan would turn this down, which is clear evidence that it's too good to be true.

76ers (Wes sucks) and NOH should say no IMO.

[jade_hippo]

I think you mean Philly gives, but I think they turn this down. Wes is looking mighty poor and I don't think a Utah1st is enough lube to get that to go in. Minnesota obviously says yes, NOH reluctantly says yes because of the savings.

[Esohny]

I would do that in a second. Doubtful about the other teams though.

[skorff26]

I doubt NOH would do it... but maybe Kahn could trick them. You beat Boston by 19 without Gordon you don't need him.

[hello_melo]

I would have thought NOH would have tricked LAC into taking a bad salary in the CP3 deal if they were that desperate.

[marty264]

Would love this trade, but isn't part of the reason Iggy might be traded his contract? And then they'd be taking on 2 other overpaid contracts to lose his?

[shrink]

I don't have a lot of concern that NOH would take this deal. Despite what some of their fans think, the 29 owners do not want to be paying $20 mil/yr into Okafor and Ariza, when NOH is losing money with low attendance, Moving big contracts makes the team more sellable as well. And there are significant reasons why Derrick Williams may be better for NOH than even Eric Gordon, such as publicity, cheap length of rookie contract, and security he can't gain leverage to force his way out for 6-7 years.

PHI is tougher. For over a year, the deal I listed (Iguodala for Wes Johnson + expiring filler or Pekovic + UTA 1st) has been bantered about, gaining general acceptance from both sides. PHI wants to move Iguodala to make way for it's younger players. The biggest opposition has come from a faction of MIN fans that think Iguodala's overpaid deal shouldn't be bringing back such assets. This deal seeks to split up the cost of that overpay between the two teams. I personally don't think it's any worse than the original, since they will probably be able to get $11.5 mil worth of production from Ariza over 3 years.

However, player values and team directions are always in a state of flux. Wes started slow - Iggy started hot. Some PHI fans also think that Iggy may cause PHI to rethink it's direction, and try to get into the play-offs .. I'm not so sure.

[hello_melo]

So you can't explain why the Hornets didn't dump one of these bad contracts when they traded Paul, but are now so desperate to do so that they'll give up the guy they just traded for?

[shrink]

So you can't explain why the Hornets didn't dump one of these bad contracts when they traded Paul, but are now so desperate to do so that they'll give up the guy they just traded for?

A. If you recall, Stern canceled their deal with LAL, not because of value but direction and size of the contracts.

B. If you recall, Stern held out to get two rebuilding pieces with LAC. I'm sure they wouldn't mind getting rid of contracts too, but you did notice Kaman is a $12.2 mil expiring, right? One of the largest expirings in the NBA this season?

[Krapinsky]

I don't have a lot of concern that NOH would take this deal. Despite what some of their fans think, the 29 owners do not want to be paying $20 mil/yr into Okafor and Ariza, when NOH is losing money with low attendance, Moving big contracts makes the team more sellable as well. And there are significant reasons why Derrick Williams may be better for NOH than even Eric Gordon, such as publicity, cheap length of rookie contract, and security he can't gain leverage to force his way out for 6-7 years.

NOH will have to spend to reach the salary floor next year so the money has to be spent somewhere. IMO they're better off spending the money on Okafor and Ariza then taking their lumps in free agency.

[Swish4]

I have to wonder if Philly really needs to move Iggy if they can amnesty Brand. If I were them I would keep Iggy.

[shrink]

I don't have a lot of concern that NOH would take this deal. Despite what some of their fans think, the 29 owners do not want to be paying $20 mil/yr into Okafor and Ariza, when NOH is losing money with low attendance, Moving big contracts makes the team more sellable as well. And there are significant reasons why Derrick Williams may be better for NOH than even Eric Gordon, such as publicity, cheap length of rookie contract, and security he can't gain leverage to force his way out for 6-7 years.

NOH will have to spend to reach the salary floor next year so the money has to be spent somewhere. IMO they're better off spending the money on Okafor and Ariza then taking their lumps in free agency.

Really? I sure don't think so.

Okafor and Ariza are overpaid, so at worst, they can replace them with other overpaid players in free agency. I would think with the impending lux penalty increases, free agent prices are not likely to rise.

However, they have a better option, and that's to use their cap space as a trade commodity. Many teams will be anxious to have cap space with Dwight, Deron, and a whole host of other free agents available. Next, you'll have teams that are concerned about the lux, as we get one year closer to it's heavier penalties. Finally, NOH will be in a position to trade a team cap space after the season concludes with the partially guaranteed deals of Webster and Brad Miller (like we've talked about), so that gives them another avenue to get value from their cap space.

Finally, NOH needs to find it's new brand if it is to discover new fans. Okafor and Ariza are not rebuilding pieces, and are part of the old regime that couldn't draw fans even when they had Chris Paul. They have less value to NOH than even their over-priced contracts suggest.

[Saltine]

A new owner is going to want to bring in players he likes, being way under the cap is a big bonus. It certainly makes the team easier to move, which is the main goal of the league...

[younggunsmn]

what is the boner for hornets trades, seriously?

There is NO WAY Stern is going to allow the Hornets to trade Eric Gordon, the centerpiece of the CP3 trade, until the team is sold. The team is 2-0 and Okafor/Kaman/Landry is actually looking like a decent frontcourt rotation.

I give you points for creativity, but there is no way Philly and NO are tearing their teams apart for the likes of wes johnson and a highly talented but unproven derrick williams.

[Danimals]

Since I don't think NO is willing to trade with us, I came up with a new idea:

MN out: Beasley, Pekovic, Randolph, Ridnour, Johnson, Memphis 1st, Utah 1st
in: Iguodala, Martin

PHI out: Iguodala
in: Johnson, Randolph, Ridnour, Memphis and Utah 1sts

HOU out: Martin
in: Beasley and Pekovic

MN pays $$ and prospects to consolidate talent. PHI, is this good value for Iggy? I know they are off to a fast start, but lets let the season settle in a little then see were they are. HOU, McHale gets two guys he likes for one he doesn't.

What do you all think?

[Krapinsky]

Since I don't think NO is willing to trade with us, I came up with a new idea:

MN out: Beasley, Pekovic, Randolph, Ridnour, Johnson, Memphis 1st, Utah 1st
in: Iguodala, Martin

PHI out: Iguodala
in: Johnson, Randolph, Ridnour, Memphis and Utah 1sts

HOU out: Martin
in: Beasley and Pekovic

MN pays $$ and prospects to consolidate talent. PHI, is this good value for Iggy? I know they are off to a fast start, but lets let the season settle in a little then see were they are. HOU, McHale gets two guys he likes for one he doesn't.

What do you all think?

Houston laughs.

[Worm Guts]

That's OK. I think I'd prefer just Iguodala to Iguodala and Martin. That's too much money invested in non-elite wings, and if I have to pick one I'd pick Iguodala.