Boozer and the PNR, video -- Double High Screen vid pg. 11

[Rerisen]

you can blame noah for creating zero space for boozer as we see in this thread

They aren't mutually exclusive issues.

[alucryts]

You have to admit that Boozer had much more lift in Utah as compared to last year.

i think he still has some pop in his legs

his max vert was 28 not that impressive

Oh I don't think he's lost it at all. I believe he has it in him still. I think that last year he was visibly slowed down to me for large stretches.

[m_willis01]

Re I agree with you Boozer had very LITTLE lift last year....

Lastly, before I call it a night, ALUCRTYS , Great Effing Job on the Breakdown and Re/JL as well with the explanations.

I got a nice healthy dose of Bball Education on the Bulls PnR Offense.

[kyrv]

Amazing effort, that's incredible allucryts.

On the one hand, it's nice that people have been correct in noticing this, that's the good news, the bad news is the perceived problem is indeed a problem.

It is funny how one guy sucking on offense can make it appear that other player(s) are sucking.

I actually wondered what a lineup of like Rose/Rip/Korver/Deng/Boozer would look like, but it'd have to be against a specific type of other lineup, but just in principle, players with those skills I guess I mean.

[jl342323]

You have to admit that Boozer had much more lift in Utah as compared to last year.

i think he still has some pop in his legs

his max vert was 28 not that impressive

Oh I don't think he's lost it at all. I believe he has it in him still. I think that last year he was visibly slowed down to me for large stretches.

i also think it has to also do with plays that we run compared to utah's play sets.

but i think it all comes down to boozer having same aggression that he had in utah.

this is boozers last chance in chitown imo. he has to play up to his 18/10 standards. if he cant, he is definitely a goner

[alucryts]

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Another issue last night was Rose running into Noah's defender when he tried to score last night off of the PNR. On top of that, Noah was terrible on defense. Noah has not had a good start to this season.

[bullsnewdynasty]

Hoping Boozer can turn it around. If not we've always got the amnesty clause. Or Bargs, not sure which is worse.

[m_willis01]

I actually wondered what a lineup of like Rose/Rip/Korver/Deng/Boozer would look like, but it'd have to be against a specific type of other lineup, but just in principle, players with those skills I guess I mean.

That would be the Phoenix suns Nash/Stoudemire model & I'd be all for it for extended stretches in games.

The Heat look darn potent when they go small too...

[Rerisen]

I think we have to blame Thibs as much or more than Noah.

There are not many dominating offensive centers in the game, and many can't shoot much better than Noah. But not every team has their PnR so neutered.

[alucryts]

i also think it has to also do with plays that we run compared to utah's play sets.

but i think it all comes down to boozer having same aggression that he had in utah.

this is boozers last chance in chitown imo. he has to play up to his 18/10 standards. if he cant, he is definitely a goner

That's a good point. If you watch Utah video, when Boozer gets the ball he's like a bull dozing wrecking ball going to the rim with authority. He looks completely focused on exactly what he's doing and he stuffs defenders in the rim constantly. He looks timid here questioning what he is going to do. This seems like a familiarity and chemistry issue right now. If Rose keeps getting Boozer these 1 on 0 breaks into the lane with only the center's defender to worry about, I expect to see a more and more confident Boozer when he truly gets used to which looks he is going to get over and over.

[ChicagoStrong]

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Another issue last night was Rose running into Noah's defender when he tried to score last night off of the PNR. On top of that, Noah was terrible on defense. Noah has not had a good start to this season.

You could be a advanced scout or a personnel scout.

[Rerisen]

Another problem we have, not just Boozer, is we have to get to the line more. Deng is leading the team in FTA.

Rose and Boozer should both have more, both only have 4 FTA. Rip Hamilton has none. It's going to be near impossible to be a high efficiency team without getting to the line a lot.

I was watching Miami and Bosh tonight, and that guy was a free throw magnet. One of the hardest things about playing the Heat, so many damn FTs.

[boogydown]

Hoping Boozer can turn it around. If not we've always got the amnesty clause. Or Bargs, not sure which is worse.

Bargnani? He's a good fit on the offensive end, but he is worse than Boozer defensively because he can't rebound, pass, or play D. Just not worth putting any energy into a guy who can't do anything but shoot which he isn't even efficient (44% Career Average is ridiculous) at doing.

If we Amnesty Boozer, the Mid Level Exception will be used on a Power Forward if we can't get any value back for Boozer. It would be a shame that every free agent we signed last year doesn't really have that much value.

[jl342323]

thanks for answering all my questions, alucryts

[kyrv]

I think we have to blame Thibs as much or more than Noah.

There are not many dominating offensive centers in the game, and many can't shoot much better than Noah. But not every team has their PnR so neutered.

Right, I doubt Noah is freelancing, and well if he is, Thibs needs to stop it.

This gets back to my question I ask a lot, with the Thibs system, do you need the scoring from the perimeters because I think you were the one who used the term "diminishing" Boozer and the 4 and 5 are just too important on defense that if you can't run plays to make use of the PF, you are better with defenders at the 4 and 5, and get your scoring from the 1 to 3.

Of course, they way they use Boozer, and Boozer's own play, makes him not desirable as he was in the summer of 2010.

I don't think there are a ton of stretch centers that are good enough defenders for Thibs' system. Not anyone's fault, but I'm not sure Boozer fits into what the Bulls are trying to do, of course this thread is discussing possible ways to make it work. But I don't think someone like Okur is the answer, Thibs would not live with that defensive pairing. So...now what?

Now, do they just give up on the P and R? Well, that's a band-aid, as we've seen Noah/Omer's guy still reeks havoc on drives. So I don't know. That P and R could be so deadly, Boozer has run it soooo many times for scores in his career.

[m_willis01]

Another problem we have, not just Boozer, is we have to get to the line more. Deng is leading the team in FTA.

I was watching Miami and Bosh tonight, and that guy was a free throw magnet. One of the hardest things about playing the Heat, so many damn FTs.

Yes I mentioned this Earlier Rose NEEDS to avg 8-10 Ft's a game!

Him having ONLY 4 in 2 games... I do not know how we didn't get blowed out in LA as well.

[Rerisen]

That's a good point. If you watch Utah video, when Boozer gets the ball he's like a bull dozing wrecking ball going to the rim with authority. He looks completely focused on exactly what he's doing and he stuffs defenders in the rim constantly. He looks timid here questioning what he is going to do. This seems like a familiarity and chemistry issue right now. If Rose keeps getting Boozer these 1 on 0 breaks into the lane with only the center's defender to worry about, I expect to see a more and more confident Boozer when he truly gets used to which looks he is going to get over and over.

They also seemed to start Boozer much further out frequently. Then you see him dive at the rim as the play is developing elsewhere, and after he is hit with the ball, he has all this momentum going at the rim. Not many players will want to step in front of that.

We always have him setting up near the elbow or off to the side a bit to set the pick for Rose, and he only has a couple steps to gather and finish the play.

We are predictable, making us easy to stop. Adding some variety could be helpful.

Ronnie Brewer said Thibs came back with a playbook twice as thick this year after the long lockout. Where is the evidence of it.

[alucryts]

I think we have to blame Thibs as much or more than Noah.

There are not many dominating offensive centers in the game, and many can't shoot much better than Noah. But not every team has their PnR so neutered.

I think this has something to do with the timing of misdirection off the ball with Noah. If we started running action off the ball that has nothing to directly do with the play we could probably slow Noah's defender down a step or two while he truly accesses the threat. I think the more and more the league sees the threat of Rip/Noah together on the weak side the more and more we can use that tandem to start opening up the lane. Noah will never pull his defender out naturally so we have to run some minor misdirection off the ball.

I would like to see us isolate Rose on a clear out on one side around 15 feet out on a post up. From here Rose could face up and bring over Boozer over at the same time to run a pick and roll at 15 feet. I don't care how close Noah's defender is at this distance. At that distance the only thing help defense could do is foul Boozer on his wide open drives to the lane.

[m_willis01]

Right, I doubt Noah is freelancing, and well if he is, Thibs needs to stop it.

This gets back to my question I ask a lot, with the Thibs system, do you need the scoring from the perimeters because I think you were the one who used the term "diminishing" Boozer and the 4 and 5 are just too important on defense that if you can't run plays to make use of the PF, you are better with defenders at the 4 and 5, and get your scoring from the 1 to 3.

That is One of OUR Top 2 Problems on Offense.

Top Problem, being people are just JACKING Jumpshots & not taking the ball to the rim.

Second being Thibs is so hellbent on running that BOSTON OFFENSE (Floppy & Hi Post action w/ Noah) like they do with KG that it actually slows our team down. I, for one , don't like the idea of Joakim initiating offense at all.

His passing is good, but not good enough and is always a turnover.

[alucryts]

I think we have to blame Thibs as much or more than Noah.

There are not many dominating offensive centers in the game, and many can't shoot much better than Noah. But not every team has their PnR so neutered.

Right, I doubt Noah is freelancing, and well if he is, Thibs needs to stop it.

This gets back to my question I ask a lot, with the Thibs system, do you need the scoring from the perimeters because I think you were the one who used the term "diminishing" Boozer and the 4 and 5 are just too important on defense that if you can't run plays to make use of the PF, you are better with defenders at the 4 and 5, and get your scoring from the 1 to 3.

Of course, they way they use Boozer, and Boozer's own play, makes him not desirable as he was in the summer of 2010.

I don't think there are a ton of stretch centers that are good enough defenders for Thibs' system. Not anyone's fault, but I'm not sure Boozer fits into what the Bulls are trying to do, of course this thread is discussing possible ways to make it work. But I don't think someone like Okur is the answer, Thibs would not live with that defensive pairing. So...now what?

Now, do they just give up on the P and R? Well, that's a band-aid, as we've seen Noah/Omer's guy still reeks havoc on drives. So I don't know. That P and R could be so deadly, Boozer has run it soooo many times for scores in his career.

I think that the PNR chemistry between Rose and Boozer just needs to develop. Right now it is too obvious when we are doing it; we need to hide the PNRs a little bit better than simply trotting him across the lane to a Rose waiting.