Boozer and the PNR, video -- Double High Screen vid pg. 11

[boogydown]

Centers that could work with Boozer offensively
Brad Miller
Mehmet Okur

Centers that could work with Boozer offensively but play more like Power Forwards
Andrea Bargnani

Power Forwards that could work with Noah offensively
Nikola Mirotic
Ryan Anderson
Antawn Jamison
Josh McRoberts
Josh Smith
Lamar Odom
Jeff Green
Paul Millsap
Chris Bosh

Power Forwards that could work with Noah offensively but horrible defensively and/or at rebounding
Andrea Bargnani
Channing Frye
Boris Diaw
Al Harrington
Troy Murphy
Charlie Villanueva
Rashard Lewis
Hedo Turkoglu
Austin Daye
Shawne Williams
Vladimir Radmanovic
Markieff Morris

Centers or Power Forwards that could work with Both
Kevin Love
Dirk Nowitzki

[CalilLove89]

I know this is a thread about boozer, but in the grand scheme of the pick and roll why don't we run the Rose and Rip PnR, If the guard switches on Rose he will have the first step, and if he gets doubled Rip will have a wide open mid range jumper (his bread and butter).

This is what we did a couple of times with Korver in the playoffs that was deadly, but korver was to much a liability on defense.

[boogydown]

Basically, it sounds to me like we need some type of switch at the PF or C backup spot with Gibson or Asik being moved versus Boozer and Noah giving us more space. Since there are very few Centers available, it sounds like we need a PF who can hit from the outside.

I think Gibson knows what is going on himself and is trying to work at becoming a threat outside. Asik on the other hand lacks skills to be a good scorer right now.

There really isn't a trade I can think of other than moving for Ryan Anderson, Josh Smith, or Paul Milisap as we need someone who can play defense next to Noah otherwise it would be better to just hold onto Gibson and force him to improve outside rather than acquire someone else.

As huge as Joe Johnsons contract is, a trade involving Joe Johnson + Josh Smith + Kirk Hinrich for Carlos Boozer + Omer Asik + Rip Hamilton + CJ Watson + Ronnie Brewer + Kyle Korver could very much fix things and then signing JR Smith in free agency. It's a shame salaries don't work, and nobody would do it because those are players who could fit.

I think we're stuck and the Bulls need to find a way to get Boozer and Gibson shooting more outside shots and try to add a guy like Brad Miller to be a 5th option.

Until this is figured out, Boozer isn't the only one who will struggle, it's both Boozer and Noah.

I will note though that Gibson didn't have a problem next to Noah. Noah was putting up 17/13 pre injury before Boozer played next to him. Now that could be because defenses didn't figure how to break them down yet, or because Gibson was shooting at a high percentage allowing Noah tons of room to score, and as well Noah was hitting mid range shots at a high rate then but it did work before so it can work, we just need to find a way to make it work.

[bullsnewdynasty]

I actually think it would work better if we dealt Omer in that potential trade.

Boozer/Taj
Noah/Frye

Or start Frye and make Noah the 6th man.

We're not going to trade Asik for Frye. You can't win anything with no defense down low.

I guess we now know why the Bulls drafted Mirotic. He is exactly what we need.

We still have Noah and Taj. We're not going to re-sign Asik for $6 mil+ if he's putting up a 2 PER anyway.

[Jimako10]

If we get behind against Miami, we could always throw out a lineup of

Boozer
Deng
Brewer
Rip
Rose

With this lineup, the key would be Deng on Bosh, and IMO i think Deng can handle Bosh (since he's really just a jumpshooter and Deng is a lengthy 6'9''). Tell Boozer to guard J. Anthony/Haslem, and all of the sudden we have 3 defensively solid guys on their 3 best players, and then we have Rose and Boozer matching up with Miami's 2 weakest spots. The PNR would work a lot better with the lane unclogged, and they could run with Miami (except Booz). I'd love to see this against Miami.

On a side note, while these do explain why the Booz/Noah combo isn't working, I still feel that a premier PF should be able to finish a lot more often 1 on 1 near the basket. The difference b/w Booz and Amare is that Amare will dunk on the rotating center (or slick layup) while Booz is just getting swatted. If he could get more craftier underneath (ala Randolph/Scola), he'd be way more effective, but i'm just not sure that's his game.

[Bullmatic]

I didn't read much after the first page so forgive me if this has been suggested, but why not have Noah cut into the lane every time Boozer's man dives? Boozer's a great passer and he can get Noah the ball for an easy lay-in or dunk. If the lane is to congested then there's the easy kick out to Deng/Rip. The problem is that Noah's man dives but Noah is usually already in the lane trying to get an offensive board, or spotting up for the tornado, and the defence is fine with Noah shooting that all day. As soon as Noah's man leaves him, that's when he should cut in to the lane.

[boogydown]

If we get behind against Miami, we could always throw out a lineup of

Boozer
Deng
Brewer
Rip
Rose

That would work really well. We could also swap Boozer for Noah there. This lineup could pretty much work against Miami but against other teams, it could be a problem.

[ChiCitySPORTS#1]

If we get behind against Miami, we could always throw out a lineup of

Boozer
Deng
Brewer
Rip
Rose

That would work really well. We could also swap Boozer for Noah there. This lineup could pretty much work against Miami but against other teams, it could be a problem.

Deng has guarded Bosh before..at least in stretches. I think he'd fair decently well against him. Maybe. I'd love to see us experiment with that. As for the Boozer n Rose PnR; Noah makes us very offensively challenged the same way Boozer makes us defensively vulnerable. This needs to be fixed.

[boogydown]

Deng has guarded Bosh before..at least in stretches. I think he'd fair decently well against him. Maybe. I'd love to see us experiment with that. As for the Boozer n Rose PnR; Noah makes us very offensively challenged the same way Boozer makes us defensively vulnerable. This needs to be fixed.

Well the suggestions so far have been

1). Increase Gibson Minutes, Start Gibson, Play Asik Less. Gibson works well with Noah
2). Asik doesn't fit at all when playing next to Boozer. Asik does with Gibson.
3). Boozer needs to take more jump shots
4). Increase Pick N Rolls
5). Play Deng more at PF
6). Add Brad Miller if he becomes available
7). Play Boozer briefly at the C Spot against teams with non elite scoring Centers or players who can drive and score (not many of these).
8). etc.

Lots of ways to reduce this, but in no way are Boozer or Noah ever going to be truly at their peak offensively when playing together.

The biggest problem is our poor offensive lineups, misguided roles, and poor coaching at helping these guys learn how to play offensively.

At this point, I think I would start games with Boozer coming off the bench and then slowly insert Boozer back into the starting lineup once others have figured out their roles.

As for our back court, that is another story but it really comes down to our bench being the weakest links mainly Watson and Brewer.

[DJHill]

PnR offense will be great for us in when it come around...

The problem isn't it's not coming around, so much as we just aren't running it. In lieu of Rip and Deng running around screens and floppy action.

OMG I must admit we run way toooooo much Floppy for my liking..

More PnR and less Floppy. Thibs need to cut back those Boston plays man

Not to go off-topic or run it off course but what's "floppy"? I've been seeing that term thrown around a lot recently (even heard Thibs use it in an interview on CSN recently). I know it's some kind of offensive system but explain please? Outside of pick & roll and isos I don't really know much about offensive systems (like the triangle, etc).

[jl342323]

floppy action - action that has the 2 wings changing sides of the floor with screens being set by the weaker shooter of the 2 wings and the 2 post players on the block

im sure others can explain it better

[BJ43]

So how the EFF do we get Noah out of the lane??
...

Trade Noah and keep Boozer
*runs and hides*

[BJ43]

Deng has guarded Bosh before..at least in stretches. I think he'd fair decently well against him.

Deng did guard him a few times, and did a great job of getting infront of him denying him an entry pass, then again Bosh had little help on that Raptors team, on the Heat there's a couple of other guys that could take over. Deng's strength in guarding someone like Bosh would be in denying him the ball, I'm not sure how effective he'd be guarding Bosh when Bosh is already faced up, but I believe he'd do a pretty good job....you know who did a nice job on Bosh?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRIozroqABA[/youtube]

I know I'm alone here, but I'd rather have Tyrus over Taj...there I said it

[Wharton Alum 08]

I thought all along David Lee would be a better fit for this squad. D.Lee is an underrated shooter and can play the pick and pop game really well. He's expanded his range, he's younger, more athletic, a solid passer though Boozer is solid as well, and more durable if you exclude Chandler's teeth in his arm. All the Bulls need is a guy to hit open 15-18 footers and it would open up the game so much.

Bargs would be a really good fit here rebounding be damned we'd have an unstoppable offense.

[boogydown]

I know I'm alone here, but I'd rather have Tyrus over Taj...there I said it

Howabout Tyrus contract, want that as well?

[Indomitable]

So how the EFF do we get Noah out of the lane??
...

Trade Noah and keep Boozer
*runs and hides*

Yeah but not for the reason you believe. The truth is people around the league value Noah more. Most think of Boozer as a over paid undersize 4 past his prime.

[boogydown]

I thought all along David Lee would be a better fit for this squad. D.Lee is an underrated shooter and can play the pick and pop game really well. He's expanded his range, he's younger, more athletic, a solid passer though Boozer is solid as well, and more durable if you exclude Chandler's teeth in his arm. All the Bulls need is a guy to hit open 15-18 footers and it would open up the game so much.

Bargs would be a really good fit here rebounding be damned we'd have an unstoppable offense.

You're not thinking clearly.

David Lee had one good game against us. Great. He like Boozer and Scola would not fit next to Noah because of their inability to give room for Noah.

Bargnani is horrible. He shoots 45%, can't rebound, defend, pass, and he is weak. You may as well just put Deng at PF, he actually maybe better than Bargnani.

[Wharton Alum 08]

Deron Williams is playing without a post presence, a guy to dump it into, a situation he admitted he has “never” experienced in the pros. As a result, he is getting lots of attention.

“Especially on pick-and-rolls, it’s tough to score on pick-and-rolls because a lot of teams are doubling, forcing it out of my hand, so until we figure out some things, some other ways to get going, I don’t see it stopping,” said Williams (10 points, one assist, six turnovers).

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/217889/Deron_Williams_Facing_Extra_Attention_Without_Post_Presence

[Indomitable]

Deng has guarded Bosh before..at least in stretches. I think he'd fair decently well against him.

Deng did guard him a few times, and did a great job of getting infront of him denying him an entry pass, then again Bosh had little help on that Raptors team, on the Heat there's a couple of other guys that could take over. Deng's strength in guarding someone like Bosh would be in denying him the ball, I'm not sure how effective he'd be guarding Bosh when Bosh is already faced up, but I believe he'd do a pretty good job....you know who did a nice job on Bosh?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRIozroqABA[/youtube]

I know I'm alone here, but I'd rather have Tyrus over Taj...there I said it

You are one of those style over substance guys right.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2nJlizh7Fg[/youtube]

[Wharton Alum 08]

I thought all along David Lee would be a better fit for this squad. D.Lee is an underrated shooter and can play the pick and pop game really well. He's expanded his range, he's younger, more athletic, a solid passer though Boozer is solid as well, and more durable if you exclude Chandler's teeth in his arm. All the Bulls need is a guy to hit open 15-18 footers and it would open up the game so much.

Bargs would be a really good fit here rebounding be damned we'd have an unstoppable offense.

You're not thinking clearly.

David Lee had one good game against us. Great. He like Boozer and Scola would not fit next to Noah because of their inability to give room for Noah.

Bargnani is horrible. He shoots 45%, can't rebound, defend, pass, and he is weak. You may as well just put Deng at PF, he actually maybe better than Bargnani.

David Lee can hit the open 15 footer, he's a pick and pop player. He would be a really good fit next to play and he has a great motor. I was on the David Lee wagon before the free agency bonanza. He worked hard and expanded his game out to 18 feet consistently he is exactly what this team needed. He had a good game against us hitting open 15-18 footers. The crazy thing is he does that against almost everyone.

As for Bargnani he can stretch the floor in Toronto he is miscast as a #1 here he would be a 2/3 option and he would flourish.