Boozer and the PNR, video -- Double High Screen vid pg. 11

[boogydown]

The truth is people around the league value Noah more.

Noah is very difficult to replace. Boozer not so much. If we trade Noah, we better be getting a star back otherwise what's the point.

Most think of Boozer as a over paid undersize 4 past his prime.

With the exception of the past 3 years going to Derrick Rose and Lebron James, the prior past MVP's and their age

Kobe Bryant - 30
Dirk Nowitzki - 30
Steve Nash - 33
Steve Nash - 32

Other winners over 30

Pretty much anyone from 1999 and before was 30+ when they won MVP with the exception of a few
Hakeem Olajuwon - 31
David Robinson - 30
Michael Jordan - 34
Karl Malone - 35
Michael Jordan - 36
Karl Malone - 37

[Indomitable]

The truth is people around the league value Noah more.

Noah is very difficult to replace. Boozer not so much. If we trade Noah, we better be getting a star back otherwise what's the point.

Most think of Boozer as a over paid undersize 4 past his prime.

With the exception of the past 3 years going to Derrick Rose and Lebron James, the prior past MVP's and their age

Kobe Bryant - 30
Dirk Nowitzki - 30
Steve Nash - 33
Steve Nash - 32

Other winners over 30

Pretty much anyone from 1999 and before was 30+ when they won MVP with the exception of a few
Hakeem Olajuwon - 31
David Robinson - 30
Michael Jordan - 34
Karl Malone - 35
Michael Jordan - 36
Karl Malone - 37

He is not in the class of any of those players. So what is your point do you think Boozer is going to become a MVP candidate?

Everyone of those players will be in the hall of fame if they aren't there already.

[boogydown]

David Lee can hit the open 15 footer, he's a pick and pop player. He would be a really good fit next to play and he has a great motor. I was on the David Lee wagon before the free agency bonanza. He worked hard and expanded his game out to 18 feet consistently he is exactly what this team needed. He had a good game against us hitting open 15-18 footers. The crazy thing is he does that against almost everyone.

As for Bargnani he can stretch the floor in Toronto he is miscast as a #1 here he would be a 2/3 option and he would flourish.

You just repeated yourself, why?

Carlos Boozer can hit the open 15 footer, he could pick n roll if in the right system and basically does everything Lee does except we didn't have to give up any assets for him.

If Bargnani is our #2 option, we may as well rebuild.

[boogydown]

He is not in the class of any of those players. So what is your point do you think Boozer is going to become a MVP candidate.

Proving my point that his age and decline is all talk and age has been proven to make players better. Until KC says otherwise, all talk.

[Indomitable]

He is not in the class of any of those players. So what is your point do you think Boozer is going to become a MVP candidate.

Proving my point that his age and decline is all talk and age has been proven to make players better. Until KC says otherwise, all talk.

This is backward logic . You chose a group of hall of famers. They are not the norm.

[Rerisen]

MVP winners. None of those guys actually had their best seasons at those ages, save maybe Nash. They just had some of their best teams, most team success.

Boozer is very likely past his prime. It's nothing to rage against. Most players are at 30. But not a lot, maybe 5-10%. You can say "past their peak" if it makes it easier - as in they are unlikely to have their absolute best or 2nd best season at that age. But a career of injuries can hasten normal decline.

Even MJ was past his peak at 29, his scoring efficiency had fell off noticeably and he couldn't quite sustain the same max effort on defense as when younger. He was still the best player in the game by far.

[boogydown]

[This is backward logic . You choose a group of hall of famers. They are not the norm.

Do I really need to go over the list of people at Boozers Age who didn't decline? Well I'm not going to waste my time, already gave enough facts on several other topics.

Even if he is past his prime, so what. Other points still stand.

[Indomitable]

[This is backward logic . You choose a group of hall of famers. They are not the norm.

Do I really need to go over the list of people at Boozers Age who didn't decline? Well I'm not going to waste my time, already gave enough facts on several other topics.

Even if he is past his prime, so what. Other points still stand.

Okay I said perceived value for Noah is greater. I said ppaid analyst who come on the score and other sport stations feel Boozer may never be the same player.

You are aware that perception is often not accurate.

Noah would probably gain you more in a trade is what I said.

Plus I could pull a bunch of players who were approaching thirty and there numbers dropped dramatically.

[boogydown]

Noah would probably gain you more in a trade is what I said.

Plus I could pull a bunch of players who were approaching thirty and there numbers dropped dramatically.

Thank you for clarifying.

With that said, there really isn't anything we can get for Noah right now other than Howard unless we dig deep and make a trade nobody here would expect which is extremely rare and unlikely for any team much less our organization.

Boozer and Noah are going to have to find a way to make this work because it really doesn't seem like they are going anywhere anytime soon.

[BJ43]

I know I'm alone here, but I'd rather have Tyrus over Taj...there I said it

Howabout Tyrus contract, want that as well?

Depends, is it coming out of my pocket? I'm stating what player I would prefer to have on the team, I'm pretty sure Taj won't stay on his rookie contract for the rest of his career, right?

[BJ43]

Deng has guarded Bosh before..at least in stretches. I think he'd fair decently well against him.

Deng did guard him a few times, and did a great job of getting infront of him denying him an entry pass, then again Bosh had little help on that Raptors team, on the Heat there's a couple of other guys that could take over. Deng's strength in guarding someone like Bosh would be in denying him the ball, I'm not sure how effective he'd be guarding Bosh when Bosh is already faced up, but I believe he'd do a pretty good job....you know who did a nice job on Bosh?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRIozroqABA[/youtube]

I know I'm alone here, but I'd rather have Tyrus over Taj...there I said it

You are one of those style over substance guys right.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2nJlizh7Fg[/youtube]

No I'm not, but you're already becoming one of only a few people I don't like around here

[Indomitable]

Okay BJ tell me what you liked about Tyrus. His inability to follow any coach. He has had numerous coaches and they all bury him. He is gifted athletically but lacks the BB IQ to make it matter.

Tyrus is not a good ball player. He hurts you just as much as he will help you. Taj is smarter and he rarely will get you beat because he plays within himself.

Why do you wish to have Tyrus back over Taj? They are similar players and Taj is less prone to get you beat.

[BJ43]

I honestly couldn't care enough to explain myself. You don't like Tyrus and nothing I say will change your mind, so why bother? I like Boozer, I like Tyrus, you hate them both...you're entitled to your opinion. blah etc

[jax98]

There's no need to look outside the roster for this problem to be fixed. It's been mentioned already, but play Boozer with Taj Gibson. Yes, it'll mean we'd be seeing more of Asik/Noah, but at least that duo is so sound defensively you can survive it, especially if you surround them with an otherwise decent scoring trio on the perimeter, such as Rose, Hamilton and Deng or Rose, Korver and Deng or even Rose, Hamilton and Korver.

Place Gibson at the free throw line area on the weak side of where Rose/Boozer runs the pick and roll. If Boozer slips the pick, the defender will have to choose whether to pick up Boozer or stick with Gibson. Boozer is a good passer, so he'll find Gibson if the defender rotates. Gibson would get an open jumper and/or enough space to take a step further in and make it an 8-foot shot, which he should convert fairly easily.

Another bonus you get with Gibson/Boozer is that Rose can run the pick and roll with Gibson as well, with Boozer standing in the same area. Defenders would nine times out of ten not leave Boozer to rotate onto Gibson, and we know Gibson can finish strong. That'd also be an extra way to get some serious scoring off the bench for us.

[DanTown8587]

I think the Bulls need to run more P&R where Noah is under the rim so that if his guy leaves him, all Boozer needs to do is get a pass or shot off. And I agree more Boozer/Taj lineups would help.

[Indomitable]

I honestly couldn't care enough to explain myself. You don't like Tyrus and nothing I say will change your mind, so why bother? I like Boozer, I like Tyrus, you hate them both...you're entitled to your opinion. blah etc

I do not want Tyrus on my team. I do not dislike anyone. You stated that you prefer Tyrus and I asked why. This was a discussion board the last I check. You interjected an opinion and I simply asked you to defend it.

I have solid basketball reason why I criticize players. Boozer is a nice offensive player. He is also a terrible defender. I hope he steps up. This is not hate. Now would I be heart broken to see him gone of course not.

I believe Lebron is a jerk and he behaved in a very juvenile minor last year. Still, if he had signed with the Bulls I would like their chances.

Now you are entitled to your opinion ,but once you post it others cannot ask why. I am just curious if maybe you might have a legit basketball reason why.

I have given Boozer credit when he deserved it, but unfortunately he has not performed up to expectations. He looks lost out there and improvement is necessary. I want him to succeed because it improves the Bulls chances.

I never said amnesty Boozer that would have been silly. Now would I trade him for a better fit of course. I also do not fill being a fan requires me to bury my head in the sand.

[jax98]

I think the Bulls need to run more P&R where Noah is under the rim so that if his guy leaves him, all Boozer needs to do is get a pass or shot off. And I agree more Boozer/Taj lineups would help.

I think there are some issues that follows that logic. Your basic premise is fine, but keep in mind that Boozer's defender will follow him in there, which makes it a very clogged lane. In order for your idea to work, Noah would have basically have to come from the exact opposite position Boozer comes from, to add the element of separation. But in theory, it should work and I wouldn't be against seeing it.

[tclg]

Hopefully we get this play down and start making some good things happen sometime soon

[DanTown8587]

I think the Bulls need to run more P&R where Noah is under the rim so that if his guy leaves him, all Boozer needs to do is get a pass or shot off. And I agree more Boozer/Taj lineups would help.

I think there are some issues that follows that logic. Your basic premise is fine, but keep in mind that Boozer's defender will follow him in there, which makes it a very clogged lane. In order for your idea to work, Noah would have basically have to come from the exact opposite position Boozer comes from, to add the element of separation. But in theory, it should work and I wouldn't be against seeing it.

I don't mean under the rim, I mean outside the paint on the opposite side, ala the Asik play in the example Alcruyts provided. Of course Noah can't be under the rim, the threat of a 3 second call is too great. Sorry for poorly wording it.

I really think the Bulls need Noah in two places: the far opposite side setting a "diversion" down screen on Rip's guy or just outside the paint on the opposite wing. If the play has Noah at the top of the key, it's bound to fail.

I'll also start the new thread on playing Gibson more with Boozer.

[Professor Frink]

I think the Bulls need to run more P&R where Noah is under the rim so that if his guy leaves him, all Boozer needs to do is get a pass or shot off. And I agree more Boozer/Taj lineups would help.

I think there are some issues that follows that logic. Your basic premise is fine, but keep in mind that Boozer's defender will follow him in there, which makes it a very clogged lane. In order for your idea to work, Noah would have basically have to come from the exact opposite position Boozer comes from, to add the element of separation. But in theory, it should work and I wouldn't be against seeing it.

Will Boozer's defender follow him in there or will Noah's leave him to defend Carlos? From the video examples, it appears Boozer's defender is doubling Derrick with Noah's (or Omer's) cheating to cover Carlos. When that happens you have a two on one. I think the problem is not so much personnel or scheme, but execution. The great thing is Noah and Boozer are good passing big men and they still have room to grow together. They really haven't played much together and, due to health issues and the lockout, haven't ever had a full training camp together. Practice time has been limited. This may take time, but I still see real potential for those two playing together.