Bean Burrito / Nick Young Appreciation Thread.

[pancakes3]

half full, half empty. if nick only shot jumpers there would be people saying that his 1-dimensional scoring is in itself 1-dimensional in that he only shoots and doesn't drive and that streak shooters shouldn't be paid 9 mil/year. personally i think nick still won't get offers next season based on what marcus thornton is doing. nick has no chance of matching his production. couple that with the way afflalo is bombing, and gm's will be just as hesitant to lock N1 up long term as they were this past off season.

but to the season at hand, we're just so unabashedly awful at offense. none of our starters are shooting better than 50%, and 3 of the starters are shooting in the 30's. our 6th man crawford is also shooting in the 30's and looks to lead the league in misses per minute.

[fishercob]

Nick still led the team in on/off differential, and even without the garbage time boost, he still crushed all of the other starters in on/off differential, and that's on a night when his shot wasn't falling for the most part.

Also, I just checked the play by play. During the 27 minutes when both Young and Ray Allen were on the court together, Ray Allen scored a grand total of 2 points on 1 for 5 shooting. (I'm not sure which is more impressive, the 2 points allowed or the 5 shots allowed in 27 minutes.) Allen scored 11 points on 4 of 5 shooting in the 8 minutes he was on the floor without Young guarding him.

So, as usual, Young helped his team's point differential while dominating his individual counterpart. Yet the Wizards of Smart on this board always find fault with his performance.

Well, this Wizard of Smart can't possibly match up intellectually with someone who had the benefit of not watching the game. But I suppose I'll try.

How about we give the on/off differential a rest until Nick has NBA caliber players behind him, OK? I mean Jordan Crawford and his PER of and 8 and TS% of .46 are stylistically exciting and all, but maybe just maybe that has something to do with Nick's "impressive" numbers.

Nick did not dominate Ray Allen. He just didn't. He did a nice job hustling on screens, but to say that he "dominated his individual counterpart" is either misrepresentation or a poor understanding of basketball. It's not baseball with a series of one on one matchups that exist essentially in a vacuum from one another.

I don't understand what's so offensively controversial about declaring that the only way Nick impacts a game offensively is by scoring. It's irrefutable. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't pass. It's not a crime, but it is a fact. And while his defense may be good, it's hardly game-changing either. I don't remember ever seeing Nick mentioned as an all-defense candidate or even mentioned by an opposing player or coach as a consistently excellent defender. If Wall and McGee were joined by Lamarcus Aldridge and a young Tayshaun Prince, I could see the argument for devoting some long-term resources to keeping Nick (but think we'd still have better options). But they're not. So at this stage, giving Nick big money would be like buying an expensive table cloth when you don't own a table.

[hands11]

yeah i do think we try and sign him with the same contract as Blatche. I think his maturity is coming along.

He seems to have made a big leap in maturity from the interviews I have seen recently.

Nick is going to make it. He is no longer on the bubble for me. I'm believing more and more he will reach his upside, whatever that is. I see no cap on it yet.

And that nice baseline drive was exactly what I thought he would be adding this year. Spot up catch and shoot was last year. Driving, passing and rebounding will be this year. At least one nice rebound that I saw last night. Not one that bounced to him but he went and fought to get it. I think we will se more of this once he gets his shooting in sync. He will try to establish that first.

Once he gets it all rolling, then he will learn to do those other things more when maybe the scoring isn't coming as easy. That will be later in the season. That is where maturity comes in.

I think Nick is going to have a huge year once he gets it rolling. It is in his reach to be a dominate player.

[hands11]

As long as Nick is taking open jumpers, he's a helluva player - like he did in the 2nd half against Boston. But for some reason, in the first half against Boston and in the previous game, he passed up open shots in order to drive... into double teams and zones - and he played like a fool - like he used to. I don't know what he was thinking. It was frustrating to see him revert back to his old ways, but it was nice to see him wise up in the second half. But now, I gotta wonder - which Nick Young is going to show up on a game to game basis? One of the reasons it'd be real nice to get a new coach very quickly is so we can get a better feel for what Nick Young we have going forward. Obviously Flip has failed to get through to him on a consistent basis. Maybe they've tuned each other out.

Ruz, I think you are missing out on is its been 3-4 games and what you are seeing is a combination of Nick doing some of the old stuff he already did well, trying to find his way after missing preseason, and him trying to expand his game.

This is all fine. Give the kid another 5-10 games to settle in and the picture will become more clear. I am totally fine with everything I have seen from Nick so far this year. And with each game he will settle in more. I think we are going to like what we see from Nick this year. A lot. I believe he will be addresses all the major concerns people have had in the past.

[nate33]

Nick still led the team in on/off differential, and even without the garbage time boost, he still crushed all of the other starters in on/off differential, and that's on a night when his shot wasn't falling for the most part.

Also, I just checked the play by play. During the 27 minutes when both Young and Ray Allen were on the court together, Ray Allen scored a grand total of 2 points on 1 for 5 shooting. (I'm not sure which is more impressive, the 2 points allowed or the 5 shots allowed in 27 minutes.) Allen scored 11 points on 4 of 5 shooting in the 8 minutes he was on the floor without Young guarding him.

So, as usual, Young helped his team's point differential while dominating his individual counterpart. Yet the Wizards of Smart on this board always find fault with his performance.

Well, this Wizard of Smart can't possibly match up intellectually with someone who had the benefit of not watching the game. But I suppose I'll try.

How about we give the on/off differential a rest until Nick has NBA caliber players behind him, OK? I mean Jordan Crawford and his PER of and 8 and TS% of .46 are stylistically exciting and all, but maybe just maybe that has something to do with Nick's "impressive" numbers.

Nick did not dominate Ray Allen. He just didn't. He did a nice job hustling on screens, but to say that he "dominated his individual counterpart" is either misrepresentation or a poor understanding of basketball. It's not baseball with a series of one on one matchups that exist essentially in a vacuum from one another.

I don't understand what's so offensively controversial about declaring that the only way Nick impacts a game offensively is by scoring. It's irrefutable. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't pass. It's not a crime, but it is a fact. And while his defense may be good, it's hardly game-changing either. I don't remember ever seeing Nick mentioned as an all-defense candidate or even mentioned by an opposing player or coach as a consistently excellent defender. If Wall and McGee were joined by Lamarcus Aldridge and a young Tayshaun Prince, I could see the argument for devoting some long-term resources to keeping Nick (but think we'd still have better options). But they're not. So at this stage, giving Nick big money would be like buying an expensive table cloth when you don't own a table.

Why don't you blast Ray Allen for not impacting the game when his shot wasn't falling? Ray Allen couldn't score against a starting-caliber defender, and he couldn't stop Nick Young either. At least Nick managed to shut down his counterpart. I repeat: 2 points allowed in 27 minutes. And you know he's not getting any help from the "help defense" on this team.

I'd gladly let Young go if we get a guy like Eric Gordon to replace him. But if we don't, it would be a mistake to let him walk if we could instead retain him to a $6-7M per year contract. We've got NOTHING to replace him and we'd have to spend a high pick and a year or two of development just to fill that hole. Why? We have a perfectly capable, starting-caliber SG who can nail 3's, create his own shot, play good defense, and play off the ball. He's only 26 so he won't decline over the length of his next contract.

[go'stags]

Why is Nick Young's job to keep Rondo off the boards? Especially when he has to chase Ray Allen around the 3-point line. And you don't want to leave him open after an offensive rebound.

[fishercob]

Why don't you blast Ray Allen for not impacting the game when his shot wasn't falling?

First, you're welcome for me deleting my obnoxious retort. It was a doozy, if i may say so myself.

Second, I didn't blast anyone. It seems to me that you're hypersensitive to any perceived "denigration" of Nick Young.

As to Allen, you are absolutely correct that at this stage of his career he has by far and away the most impact on the game by shooting the ball; when he's not shooting well, he's not having a positive impact. That said, he's in another universe than Nick when it comes to shooting. Last season -- Nick's "breakout" and Allen's 15th: He blew Nick out of the water with shooting accuracy and efficiency, while also using 20% fewer possession. He also had double the assist rate and rebounded better.

So to the extent that I was criticizing Nick for not helping in any way other than shooting, Allen has earned the right -- and then some -- to be spare the same criticism until his game falls off a cliff. Then I'll be the first one arguing against signing him for big money at the early stages of a rebuild.

[nate33]

I guess I am a little sensitive to criticism of Young. I feel that the standard for Young is so much higher than everybody else. Nobody says Young is a superstar. He shouldn't have to be awesome at all aspects of the game to avoid constant criticism. Young is what I would consider a legit starter. If he's your starter, you've got SG pretty well handled and you can focus on addressing other needs on the roster.

That doesn't mean he's great. It doesn't mean he lacks weaknesses. It just means that he's real good at some things, okay at others, and bad at a few things too. He doesn't deserve superstar money ($10M+ a year), but he does deserve starter's money ($6-7M a year). I just don't see the need to continue to bash the fact that he doesn't rebound and pass well. That's a given. If he did those things well, he'd be in Joe Johnson territory.

[Ruzious]

Nick still led the team in on/off differential, and even without the garbage time boost, he still crushed all of the other starters in on/off differential, and that's on a night when his shot wasn't falling for the most part.

Also, I just checked the play by play. During the 27 minutes when both Young and Ray Allen were on the court together, Ray Allen scored a grand total of 2 points on 1 for 5 shooting. (I'm not sure which is more impressive, the 2 points allowed or the 5 shots allowed in 27 minutes.) Allen scored 11 points on 4 of 5 shooting in the 8 minutes he was on the floor without Young guarding him.

So, as usual, Young helped his team's point differential while dominating his individual counterpart. Yet the Wizards of Smart on this board always find fault with his performance.

Well, this Wizard of Smart can't possibly match up intellectually with someone who had the benefit of not watching the game. But I suppose I'll try.

How about we give the on/off differential a rest until Nick has NBA caliber players behind him, OK? I mean Jordan Crawford and his PER of and 8 and TS% of .46 are stylistically exciting and all, but maybe just maybe that has something to do with Nick's "impressive" numbers.

Nick did not dominate Ray Allen. He just didn't. He did a nice job hustling on screens, but to say that he "dominated his individual counterpart" is either misrepresentation or a poor understanding of basketball. It's not baseball with a series of one on one matchups that exist essentially in a vacuum from one another.

I don't understand what's so offensively controversial about declaring that the only way Nick impacts a game offensively is by scoring. It's irrefutable. He doesn't rebound, he doesn't pass. It's not a crime, but it is a fact. And while his defense may be good, it's hardly game-changing either. I don't remember ever seeing Nick mentioned as an all-defense candidate or even mentioned by an opposing player or coach as a consistently excellent defender. If Wall and McGee were joined by Lamarcus Aldridge and a young Tayshaun Prince, I could see the argument for devoting some long-term resources to keeping Nick (but think we'd still have better options). But they're not. So at this stage, giving Nick big money would be like buying an expensive table cloth when you don't own a table.

He is the one rotation player they have - with maybe the occasional exception of leadfoot Lewis - that can spread the defense out with the threat of hitting 3's. Even when he's off, he can still be a threat. And he's far and away their best defensive shooting guard. Mason can't cover a... hmm, I can't think of anything clever, um... he can't cover a Beatles song. And Crawford um... stinks.

[go'stags]

At age 24, Nick Young and Jason terry basically shot the same, scored the same, and rebounded the same. Terry turned it over more, but was a far, far better passer. No surprise, Terry was a PG in college, but keep in mind at this point Terry was the starting PG of a team that won 25 games. Terry's superior passing didn't have much of an "impact". Even still, I concede to this day that Terry has learned how to get assists in the flow of the offense. But anyone else must concede that Terry is still a defensive liability, one that causes mismatches for his team (since he is not usually playing PG). Young is far and away better defensively than Terry, and is not a mismatch waiting to happen. Much of what we think of Terry is due to his sterling performance in the playoffs this summer, and rightfully so, but keep in mind his struggles in previous playoffs and finals.

I don't expect Nick Young to become a much better passer or rebounder than he is now. Maybe marginal improvements, but nothing worth noting. I do think he will have some outstanding shooting and scoring seasons, especially when better talent is around him, much like Terry did a couple of times in Dallas.

Much like Terry, I think Young's best role is as 6th man. The green-light scorer who plays considerable minutes at both the 2 and 3. The guy can light it up. 3 point shooting is absolutely necessary.

No matter our luck in the draft, think it will be very difficult to find 2 or 3 stars to compete with the Miamis, OKCs or Knicks (be it Amare or someone else) in terms of starpower. Our strength will have to be a bunch of good players with Wall and our 2012 pick. That means a couple of guys at 6-7 million per year. We are extremely well positioned cap-wise to ad to our team even with Nick at 6 million. The Mavs, Thunder, Blazers, and a host of other teams show the benefit of multiple guys who can score and shoot efficiently. I don't buy into this theory that a 6-7 guy with Nick's athleticism who can also score consistently and efficiently are somehow easy to find.

[hands11]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wiz ... _blog.html


Now is the time for some focus and strategy.

Against Orlando, they should try to get Nick going early. Play calling and Wall can help that. Nick is their only pure shooter so they have to help him get in a rhythm early, then play off of that. Then go to McGee in the post. I would run the first 10 plays with a heavy focus on Nick but I would instruct him to not force his game. Shoot some, drive some and pass it around some. Tell him, we will get you touches and run the offense through you early but we need to know you aren't going to go all tunnel vision if we do. Smart shots. Team ball. Deal.

Deal.

Nick doesn't have to shot it each time, they just need to get him touches early. Ray really ran him all over the court last game. His teammates need to help bump a player doing that to slow him down.

I'm starting to get excited about this team again. It was tough watching those first 4 games but Wall really turned it around that 2nd game against Boston. Amazing how much difference there was in his game approach. Not sure I can recall a player changing his game that much between two game. I was hoping the back to back against the same team would help them fix things. The fact that McGee played as efficient as he did at the same time is really encouraging. That was more then I think anyone would have expected.

Huge leap in play for the Wiz mostly because of those two. Really hope they can build on that. Hard to imagine that game film will get lost. They should watch it many times so they see what works. Just play the one game, then the other. Great teaching tool.

[fishercob]

Nick Young is the leading free throw shooter in the NBA.

Yet, out of all players shooting 80% or higher who have made more than 20 FT't this year, Nick is 46th in FTA/minute.

he trails the likes of Lou Williams, Josh Howard, Isiah Thomas, Nate Robinson, Tony Allen, JJ Redick, Ben Gordon.

Nearly everyone behind Nick on the list is a much better overall player: http://bkref.com/tiny/yCrNC

Nick's free throw shooting is a weapon. He absolutely must figure out a way to get to the line more to make himself valuable to this team.

[WizarDynasty]

Don't understand why we are giving young minutes even though he doesn't want to be here. I would go to 7.5 per year but get it done in next few days. He is worth it and shown enough improvement. But if he doesn't want thatn why help him if he doesn't want to be here longterm with wall and mcgee.

[DaRealHibachi]

Young is nowhere worth 7.5 per year; he hasn't improved enough... Team defense is still below average, still a streaky shooter, still not passing nor rebounding; paying him that much will surely cripple this franchise...

5 mill is already pushing it...

[Severn Hoos]

Yeah, I've been wondering if they should put a take-it-or-leave-it, "Blackbird" offer on the table. (You know, 4-and-20?) I guess that could work for a 6th man/spot starter, $5M per year isn't unreasonable. Of course, he wouldn't accept it, so I guess it's a "mute" point anyway....

[Saqs]

I like Nick and he definitely has a place on this team and in the league. He's streaky yeah but what shooter isnt. If he can bring it in all facets, shots dropping or no, like he did last night I'd have no problem throwing him a deal.

[nate33]

Yeah, I've been wondering if they should put a take-it-or-leave-it, "Blackbird" offer on the table. (You know, 4-and-20?) I guess that could work for a 6th man/spot starter, $5M per year isn't unreasonable. Of course, he wouldn't accept it, so I guess it's a "mute" point anyway....

I don't think theyre allowed to sign him to an extension at this point. They must wait until the off-season.

[Severn Hoos]

good point, nate. Still, same approach could be taken in the offseason. I just don't see them (or perhaps anyone else) going much above $5M per.

[fishercob]

Yeah, I've been wondering if they should put a take-it-or-leave-it, "Blackbird" offer on the table. (You know, 4-and-20?) I guess that could work for a 6th man/spot starter, $5M per year isn't unreasonable. Of course, he wouldn't accept it, so I guess it's a "mute" point anyway....

Is that a CSN reference?

[Severn Hoos]

Well, really - it would be a Beatles reference (that would be two in one day!), although CSN did it more justice than when Mr. Mister poached the Broken Wings line.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_obd4CS0iYM[/youtube]



Actually, it's just the nursery rhyme - "4-and-20 blackbirds baked in a pie..." Some time back, someone suggested that the deal for Nick Young should be "4 yrs and $20M", and it stuck in my head.

As always, I post for my own amusement, and if anyone else ever gets the random & obscure references, it's all gravy...