Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

Post #841 » by **Rhettmatic** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 3:44 pm

I really like Barnes except when I'm watching him play.

Doesn't mean I'll be opposed to drafting him, depending on where we're selecting. But I've still seen little first-hand to justify predictions that he'll be a superstar. I just don't see it.

Post #842 » by **Rhettmatic** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 4:35 pm

BTW, Chad Ford will be chatting about the NBA draft at 1 p.m. ET here:

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/41939

Post #843 » by **Rhettmatic** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 7:06 pm

The chat is over now, but I'll cherrypick a couple interesting questions:

Guest (Cincinnati, OH)

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Better prospect than Harrison Barnes?

Chad Ford (1:44 PM)

That's a tough one. Kidd-Gilchrist is one of my favorite players because he impacts the game in so many ways because of his energy and athleticism. But Barnes is such a polished scorer. If Barnes played as hard as Gilchrist or was as good of an athlete, he'd be the next Kobe. But until Gilchrist gets a consistent jumper (thought he's gotten much better) I can't find scouts willing to put him ahead of Barnes. Barnes best comp right now might be Danny Granger. Gilchrist is Gerald Wallace.

Louis (South Africa)

Hey Chad, great to have you back! With the upcoming draft being so allegedly deep, do you think that means it is deep in potential superstars that can become franchise players, or is it just deep in terms of quality role players? Thanks.

Chad Ford (1:47 PM)

I'm not sure there is a LeBron or Dwight Howard or Derrick Rose in this draft. But Anthony Davis, Harrison Barnes, Perry Jones and Andre Drummond could all be all-stars if they live up to their potential. The lottery is also deep with players who could be legit starters on their team. As far as depth goes, I don't feel this draft is quite as deep as last year's was once you get past the 20th pick.

And for Dr. Mufasa:

Nick (wiscon)

Meyers Leonard, about a month away til people start realizing this guy is a bonafide top 5 player for this draft?

Chad Ford (1:45 PM)

If he dominates in Big 10 play, you might be right. Like him a lot and have him in our Top 20. But big men rise the closer we get to the draft and Leonard has the physical specs teams are looking for.

JamesNaismith · Post #844 » by **JamesNaismith** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 7:10 pm

Still haven't gotten a chance to catch Meyers Leonard but I hear so many people raving about him.

Live Free · Post #845 » by **Live Free** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 8:19 pm

Rhettmatic wrote:The chat is over now, but I'll cherrypick a couple interesting questions:

Guest (Cincinnati, OH)

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Better prospect than Harrison Barnes?

Chad Ford (1:44 PM)

That's a tough one. Kidd-Gilchrist is one of my favorite players because he impacts the game in so many ways because of his energy and athleticism. But Barnes is such a polished scorer. If Barnes played as hard as Gilchrist or was as good of an athlete, he'd be the next Kobe. But until Gilchrist gets a consistent jumper (thought he's gotten much better) I can't find scouts willing to put him ahead of Barnes. Barnes best comp right now might be Danny Granger. Gilchrist is Gerald Wallace.

Louis (South Africa)

Hey Chad, great to have you back! With the upcoming draft being so allegedly deep, do you think that means it is deep in potential superstars that can become franchise players, or is it just deep in terms of quality role players? Thanks.

Chad Ford (1:47 PM)

I'm not sure there is a LeBron or Dwight Howard or Derrick Rose in this draft. But Anthony Davis, Harrison Barnes, Perry Jones and Andre Drummond could all be all-stars if they live up to their potential. The lottery is also deep with players who could be legit starters on their team. As far as depth goes, I don't feel this draft is quite as deep as last year's was once you get past the 20th pick.

And for Dr. Mufasa:

Nick (wiscon)

Meyers Leonard, about a month away til people start realizing this guy is a bonafide top 5 player for this draft?

Chad Ford (1:45 PM)

If he dominates in Big 10 play, you might be right. Like him a lot and have him in our Top 20. But big men rise the closer we get to the draft and Leonard has the physical specs teams are looking for.

thanks for this, I totally agree with his assessment on MGK vs Barnes.. you just can't be fully trusted without a actual jumpshot in this league thats why Barnes is the safe choice. & To me Meyers Leonard has bust written all over him, a 7footer with no motor and most of his buckets come from dump offs and oops.

Marlo Stanfield · Post #846 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 8:20 pm

Rhettmatic wrote:The chat is over now, but I'll cherrypick a couple interesting questions:

Guest (Cincinnati, OH)

Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Better prospect than Harrison Barnes?

Chad Ford (1:44 PM)

That's a tough one. Kidd-Gilchrist is one of my favorite players because he impacts the game in so many ways because of his energy and athleticism. But Barnes is such a polished scorer. If Barnes played as hard as Gilchrist or was as good of an athlete, he'd be the next Kobe. But until Gilchrist gets a consistent jumper (thought he's gotten much better) I can't find scouts willing to put him ahead of Barnes. Barnes best comp right now might be Danny Granger. Gilchrist is Gerald Wallace.

I agree completely with this. But what happens if MKG develops his jumper like DeMar has? Then what's his comparison? Don't say Gerald Wallace with a jumpshot lol. Best case James Worthy/Prime Tracy McGrady, mid-point Andre Iguodala/Joe Johnson/Lamar Odom, worst case Trevor Ariza/Landry Fields? Sorry :oops:

I just threw out names that came to mind.

Live Free · Post #847 » by **Live Free** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 8:26 pm

^ Scorers are natural, you can become a better scorer by understanding the game but it's highly unlikely ANYONE develops into a prime T-Mac or JJ with the skillset MGK has.. it's just not his game.

JN · Post #848 » by JN » Wed Jan 4, 2012 8:33 pm

Leonard has no motor for a seven footer? News to me.

Young_Buc · Post #849 » by **Young_Buc** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 8:34 pm

MKG is also compared to Pippen depending on who you ask.

I don't think Wallace has the floor skills to be considered a good comparison.

I remember Wallace was said to be "The Michael Jordan of the small forward position" from the guy who scouted him (I used to read Slam magazine a lot in high school) and was probably a higher ranked high school kid.

At Alabama though, he completely shat the bed. Went late first round on potential alone.

Marlo Stanfield · Post #850 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 8:35 pm

Live Free wrote:^ Scorers are natural, you can become a better scorer by understanding the game but it's highly unlikely ANYONE develops into a prime T-Mac or JJ with the skillset MGK has.. it's just not his game.

I know, the comparison wasn't really to compare them scoring wise, they just fit into the do-it-all category. But to be fair, T-Mac wasn't a scorer in his first few seasons which would have shown through with or without Vince Carter being in Toronto.

Young_Buc · Post #851 » by **Young_Buc** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 8:40 pm

Rhettmatic wrote:I really like Barnes except when I'm watching him play.

Doesn't mean I'll be opposed to drafting him, depending on where we're selecting. But I've still seen little first-hand to justify predictions that he'll be a superstar. I just don't see it.

EXACTLY how I feel. I look at his numbers and highlights and will say "wow this guy's a great shooter! and LOOK at those percentages!" Perfect SF body, perfect form on his shot, prodigy recruit.

Then you look at him, and it's like "okay? that's it?" Barnes with a motor is Kevin Durant.

dTox · Post #852 » by **dTox** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 8:47 pm

Thanks for the recap Rhett, but I disagree with Ford's analysis on MKG, he's only 18 and has already shown an improvement on his shot this year, I don't see any reason with his work ethic why he can't be a better shooter than say a Gerald Wallace.

swansonite · Post #853 » by **swansonite** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 8:52 pm

Into the draft board it goes....
I was thinking recently, after seeing the personal and team success that Kentucky is having, would the Raptors consider taking Anthony Davis with their pick in this years draft, and subsequently trade Ed Davis or one our other power forwards for a second pick to take Michael Kidd-Gilchrist?

The two have been leading Kentucky by example, and both seem like the high quality, high caliber players that could really turn this system around. Both show significant defensive prowess, rebounding and each can score at a pretty good rate.

It wouldn't be outrageous to assume they've formed a good bond in Kentucky and that chemistry could be a great shot in the arm for this team.

Is this an option? Do we have the players to trade for a pick for GIlchrist, somewhere between 8-12? Who would you get rid of to make this happen? And is it even a good idea?

Post #854 » by **Rhettmatic** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 8:56 pm

^ If the Raptors were fortunate enough to land Anthony Davis, I probably would look to move both Bargs and Ed.

But I suspect that MKG will be in the 3-8 range by the time the draft rolls around, not 8-12, and I doubt Ed would be enough to land a pick that high (though his value is very much up in the air right now, given his slow start to the season).

fredericklove · Post #855 » by **fredericklove** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:02 pm

BlackFalcon wrote:
Live Free wrote:^ Scorers are natural, you can become a better scorer by understanding the game but it's highly unlikely ANYONE develops into a prime T-Mac or JJ with the skillset MGK has.. it's just not his game.

I know, the comparison wasn't really to compare them scoring wise, they just fit into the do-it-all category. But to be fair, T-Mac wasn't a scorer in his first few seasons which would have shown through with or without Vince Carter being in Toronto.

but T-mac always knew how to score in the early years in raptors, his mid-range was already good in the raps, he just never consistently drives and draw for contact. In the later years he learns to exploit using his advanced handles and expand his offensive repertoires...I still can't expect him to turn out to be a superstar wow...i knew he was a defensive prowess and a capable scorer but wow he caught everyone by surprise.

I think for MKG, he sees the floor really well, the guy can pass and is aggressive on the glass. His offensive level is somewhat patient and not flashy. I like the fact that he doesn't force things and that's rare for a freshman. I don't really see him turning into an elite scorer. That's not his game. He's geared toward to the defense, rebounding and attack off the dribble aggressively and only attacks when he sees little opening in the lane during half court set. He has quite a conservative approach to offense. His offensive game reminds me of John Salmon, without the jumpshot. Someone that attacks in the lane. However I wouldn't be surprise if MKG expands his offensive repertoire in his prime. Overall, he's definitely a Gerald Wallace type, someone that crashes the board, drives to the lane and plays tough hard nose defense. But MKG sees the floor better, I think he can average at least 3-4 assists in the game since he's very patient and constantly looks for his teammates like he did to Davis and the white boy.

swansonite · Post #856 » by **swansonite** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:03 pm

Wow, I knew that MKG was starting to get recognition but 3-8? I could definitely see it happening but in your eyes is this expected rise due to an strong showing in March? Team success? Or just the product of the inevitable group of players deciding to go back to school?

Consequence · Post #857 » by **Consequence** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:06 pm

swansonite wrote:Wow, I knew that MKG was starting to get recognition but 3-8? I could definitely see it happening but in your eyes is this expected rise due to an strong showing in March? Team success? Or just the product of the inevitable group of players deciding to go back to school?

I'd say all of that and the fact that if he goes through the interview process, teams will fall in love.

swansonite · Post #858 » by **swansonite** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:09 pm

Consequence wrote:
swansonite wrote:Wow, I knew that MKG was starting to get recognition but 3-8? I could definitely see it happening but in your eyes is this expected rise due to an strong showing in March? Team success? Or just the product of the inevitable group of players deciding to go back to school?

I'd say all of that and the fact that if he goes through the interview process, teams will fall in love.

Definitely one of the reasons I think he'd be great as a Raptor, he chooses his words carefully and says the right things more often than not. Displays some great leadership abilities.

fredericklove · Post #859 » by **fredericklove** » Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:12 pm

swansonite wrote:Into the draft board it goes....
I was thinking recently, after seeing the personal and team success that Kentucky is having, would the Raptors consider taking Anthony Davis with their pick in this years draft, and subsequently trade Ed Davis or one our other power forwards for a second pick to take Michael Kidd-Gilchrist?

All these trading for a 2nd lottery pick is dream scenario but in reality, no GM is willing to give up their lottery pick in a loaded draft like this one. If you were the other team's GM, would you not take a shot at MKG, beal, river or whoever available in the draft? I only saw Wizard did it and how that turned out for them? Wizard would have had a shot at Stephen Curry or Demar but they chose to get Randy Foye and whoever else in return? I doubt any GMs would give up anything in this lottery draft especially if it's a rebuilding team in desperate need of a talent in the draft.

JN · Post #860 » by JN » Wed Jan 4, 2012 9:13 pm

swansonite wrote:Wow, I knew that MKG was starting to get recognition but 3-8? I could definitely see it happening but in your eyes is this expected rise due to an strong showing in March? Team success? Or just the product of the inevitable group of players deciding to go back to school?

The fact that he has been UK's best player every big game they played recently -- UNC, Indiana, and Louisville.

That is the biggest driver of his draft ranking right now.

Who do you want the Raptors to draft in the 2012 NBA Draft?