OFFICIAL - Amare Must Go Thread (all hate here) #TRADESTAT

[SelbyCobra]

Why do people want to lump Stat and Melo in the same category as players? Melo is so much more of a complete player than Stat, they're not even comparable.

I'm not saying Melo is Kobe or Lebron, but the guy can create his own shot, beat double teams with the ball in his hand on an iso, and generally do big things on his own. He's also shown to be a pretty decent passer, and has one of the best inside-out games in the league.

They definitely both require a lot of shots, so that's similar, but Amar'e and Melo aren't at all comparable one it comes to talking about "one-trick pony" type stuff.

[stuporman]

The whole idea that Melo and Amar'e can't play together makes no sense. Both of them are versatile enough that they can score and play in many different areas on the court. Sure they can from the same spot as well but it's not like they can only score from the same spot so there is nowhere else to go. That's not the problem at all.

The problem is the Douglas is horrible as a starting PG he just can't get anyone the ball in rhythm. Shump, for all the love he gets, can't do it either and really can only play PG in spot duty even though he's better than Douglas. Maybe down the road but not now, Shump acts more like a scoring PG when he's playing there. Baron is going to make all this go away with his ability to break down the defense and make the amazing pass.

Baron is even going to save D's job for the rest of the season, too, as much as I hate to say it. D' lets the PG run free and do whatever they can do to create and Baron can do that very well. So he will flourish in that role and make the team look pretty dam good doing it. He's going to get people the ball in places they can score.

We just have to hope that D' gets exposed in the playoffs so badly as a guy who is a weak coaching coach that he doesn't get retained and the Knicks can get a real coach for next season because they aren't going to get over the hump with this guy on the sideline.

[seren]

Amare is showing signs of aging. He reminds me of Webber's later days after injuries. I am officially worried.

[stuporman]

I don't think it's his body that's the issue it's that D' is trying to make him a stretch 4. Taking him away from the paint, not that there's a PG to get him the ball in a position to score anyway, is all D's doing. That's what the coach wants, one pick and roll and three spot up shooters. Since Chandler can't shoot he's the pick and roll partner and that leaves Amar'e spending his time spotting up at the three point line.

Amar'e need to be a back cutter or part of the pick and roll with Chandler being the back cutter. Does there really need to be three guys spotting up all the time for D' to get his rocks off? True that until Baron gets playing there isn't anyone to make the passes that are getting ignored now but I'm tired of seeing Amar'e jacking jumpers all game long.

[seren]

I don't think it's his body that's the issue it's that D' is trying to make him a stretch 4. Taking him away from the paint, not that there's a PG to get him the ball in a position to score anyway, is all D's doing. That's what the coach wants, one pick and roll and three spot up shooters. Since Chandler can't shoot he's the pick and roll partner and that leaves Amar'e spending his time spotting up at the three point line.

Amar'e need to be a back cutter or part of the pick and roll with Chandler being the back cutter. Does there really need to be three guys spotting up all the time for D' to get his rocks off? True that until Baron gets playing there isn't anyone to make the passes that are getting ignored now but I'm tired of seeing Amar'e jacking jumpers all game long.

One would hope so. That would be much easier to solve, ie replace the coach. But I still feel something isn't right. Even with past instances of lack of effort, I never saw Amare like this. His body language is just wrong. It is not only his 17 footers. He simply looks like he is moving slower than ever.

[towelie]

If this is the first play of the game, fine.

But when this is the 4th quarter with your team down big and needing some fire and intensity from their leadership, and this dude has been personally whipping you like you're Denzel in Glory the whole game, how can this play possibly be interpreted as anything less than poor effort, lack of heart, and no accountability?

I'm not even kidding when I say I'd rather have seen him draw a flagrant and multiple game suspension for punching Diaw in the back of the head on the way to the basket after he got beat, just so it would be obvious he at least gave a sh*t. He just doesn't care about defense at this point. He gives it awesome lip service in the press, but nothing beyond that.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5DSa742msc&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Amar'e sucked no doubt last night. He was one of the big reasons for us getting destroyed. Maybe his ankle isn't fully healed but he rushed back knowing how bad our team is right now.

Even then, I look at that clip and wonder, why is our $14M defensive center not guarding Charlotte's center who already burned us 8-9x that night? At what point does D'Antoni make an adjustment? Why is our center caught guarding the perimeter? Oh right, cause we're constantly switching on every pick and rolls, leaving Douglas/Shump guarding a big man while Tyson is contesting Augustin.

Love this defensive philosophy.

"Defensively, we're going to be doing the same thing we did last year." -D'Antoni

[TrueWarrior]

The extra weight Amare put on might be affecting him. 20 pounds is a lot. Im not going to really judge him, at least on offense, until Baron gets back though.

Either way Amare needs to really develop even just an average post game if he wants to prolong his career. Cant blow by people forever.

[towelie]

The extra weight Amare put on might be affecting him. 20 pounds is a lot. Im not going to really judge him, at least on offense, until Baron gets back though.

Either way Amare needs to really develop even just an average post game if he wants to prolong his career. Cant blow by people forever.

I know some like to say he has no post game, but when I look at his skillset, athletic ability, and the supposed strength he has now, I see no reason why he can't develop a post game if he worked at it. The same way he's worked a deadly midrange jumper (at least that we saw last season) into his game.

People tend to forget that this guy came straight out of high school and has been under D'Antoni's tutelage for 9 years, and D'Antoni's system for 11 (only exception being the one year Porter coached the Suns). The last thing Amar'e needs right now is to develop his 3-pt shot and turn him into a stretch 4.

[F N 11]

Amare is sucking on D right now but his ankle was swollen last night. Someone needs to show him film cmon..

[F N 11]

When Amare starts hitting those Mid Range shots which was automatic last year this board will shut up

[stuporman]

I don't think it's his body that's the issue it's that D' is trying to make him a stretch 4. Taking him away from the paint, not that there's a PG to get him the ball in a position to score anyway, is all D's doing. That's what the coach wants, one pick and roll and three spot up shooters. Since Chandler can't shoot he's the pick and roll partner and that leaves Amar'e spending his time spotting up at the three point line.

Amar'e need to be a back cutter or part of the pick and roll with Chandler being the back cutter. Does there really need to be three guys spotting up all the time for D' to get his rocks off? True that until Baron gets playing there isn't anyone to make the passes that are getting ignored now but I'm tired of seeing Amar'e jacking jumpers all game long.

One would hope so. That would be much easier to solve, ie replace the coach. But I still feel something isn't right. Even with past instances of lack of effort, I never saw Amare like this. His body language is just wrong. It is not only his 17 footers. He simply looks like he is moving slower than ever.

I don't want to blame the supposed 20lbs of muscle he put on since muscle is strong enough to move itself, he doesn't look too big, he looks to be in great shape. Although one has to wonder if the extra weight is having an effect on him.

Of the times he's gotten inside and finished at the rim I don't see a loss of quickness or explosiveness. Maybe he's just allowing himself to play away from the rim more often to both placate D's infatuation of stretch 4s and to 'save' his body some.

Either way, his jump shot should be an added bonus to keep his defender from playing off him to help defend or double, not as the bulk of his attempts. He should be shooting one jumper for every three of his shots at most and right now it's like three shots out of every four. That's not good and why his fg% is dropping.

[clipse375]

The only way we can keep these two ball-stoppers on this team is if we have a good point guard. If we didn't have Baron Davis coming in soon, this will NEVER work out. Both Melo and Amar'e are ball-stoppers and are one-on-one type players without a good point guard.

Last year, Amar'e had Felton, who did a flat-out amazing job running this team and running D' Antoni's offensive philosophy. Amar'e built that mid-range jumper that has helped him as well, but if that shot isn't falling, all he becomes is a ball-stopper who can't get much done on his own. Melo at least can create anytime he wants, but he's under way too much pressure to carry this offense on his back. Have him play the point guard as well? Point-Forward? GTFO. That's too much.

We need to bring back Felton next year, for Amar'e to stay. Amar'e is worthless without a good Point Guard.

[seren]

One would hope so. That would be much easier to solve, ie replace the coach. But I still feel something isn't right. Even with past instances of lack of effort, I never saw Amare like this. His body language is just wrong. It is not only his 17 footers. He simply looks like he is moving slower than ever.

I don't want to blame the supposed 20lbs of muscle he put on since muscle is strong enough to move itself, he doesn't look too big, he looks to be in great shape. Although one has to wonder if the extra weight is having an effect on him.

Of the times he's gotten inside and finished at the rim I don't see a loss of quickness or explosiveness. Maybe he's just allowing himself to play away from the rim more often to both placate D's infatuation of stretch 4s and to 'save' his body some.

Either way, his jump shot should be an added bonus to keep his defender from playing off him to help defend or double, not as the bulk of his attempts. He should be shooting one jumper for every three of his shots at most and right now it's like three shots out of every four. That's not good and why his fg% is dropping.

I am really not sure whether it is the coach's strategy as opposed to where Amare's body is at. I remember many people calling for Adelman's head for Webber's continuous outside shooting when it was really clear that it simply was Webber's body breaking down.

[knickabocker88]

Even then, I look at that clip and wonder, why is our $14M defensive center not guarding Charlotte's center who already burned us 8-9x that night? At what point does D'Antoni make an adjustment?

So than BJ Mullens was gonna resume having his career game Torching Amar'e

It's like folks didn't even watch the game

Whoever Amar'e was guarding turned into a Hybrid of Larry Bird and Hakeem

[panthermark]

If this is the first play of the game, fine.

But when this is the 4th quarter with your team down big and needing some fire and intensity from their leadership, and this dude has been personally whipping you like you're Denzel in Glory the whole game, how can this play possibly be interpreted as anything less than poor effort, lack of heart, and no accountability?

I'm not even kidding when I say I'd rather have seen him draw a flagrant and multiple game suspension for punching Diaw in the back of the head on the way to the basket after he got beat, just so it would be obvious he at least gave a sh*t. He just doesn't care about defense at this point. He gives it awesome lip service in the press, but nothing beyond that.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5DSa742msc&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

What is up with Shumpert's help there?

[stuporman]

I am really not sure whether it is the coach's strategy as opposed to where Amare's body is at. I remember many people calling for Adelman's head for Webber's continuous outside shooting when it was really clear that it simply was Webber's body breaking down.

Of course, since that's what happened with Webber, it must be what's wrong with Amar'e!

[Clyde_Style]

It was said by someone, dont' remember who, that Amare came into camp in peak condition.

What is not clear is if being built like a Roman god equates into durability. That slab of muscle is impressive, but it could tear and rip apart even more than a journeyman doughboy.

Being a specimen doesn't equal skillz. Amare is a true specimen, but there is more to the game than THUNK! After an already significant number of years in the league, for him to not expand his game is pretty lame.

His skillz need to compensate for physical decline and we're not seeing an evolution in his game whatsoever.

People who predicted this when we signed him were maligned and insulted, but it was easy to see if you're not being a stubborn mule.

[NYKGrit78]

Amare did say that he gained like 20lbs of muscle over the offseason, but I'm starting to think that it was more like 5lbs muscle and 15lbs fat/jaw-jacking. He needs to get back to 240.

History has proven that adding that much muscle (if truely just muscle) will destroy your shot.

[Amare fan]

When Amare starts hitting those Mid Range shots which was automatic last year this board will shut up

probably its really sad that a thread like this comes up 6 games into the season. Overreaction is at an all time high its ridiculous. If fans really think we would be better with harrelson starting i want to have what their smoking. What also kills there argument is that nobody has been playing defense. So if we get rid of amare because of that get rid of tyson and melo as well.

[knicksosmoove]

my issues with amare didn't start this season. i'm not trying to make him the scapegoat for our past few losses. i know the knicks' issues go well beyond his play.

but anway, just think about the other power forwards/ big men who've won in the past decade. shaq, tim duncan, kevin garnett, rasheed wallace, pau gasol, dirk nowitzki. think about what they bring to the table. they're all excellent post scorers. all of them except dirk are excellent defenders (and dirk is a more than competent team defender). all of them except sheed made their teammates better through their unselfish play and passing (sheed was a lesser option on offense though). amare isn't like them. he can score very effectively in a couple of ways and then gives you abysmal production in other facets.

i would probably jump back on the amare bandwagon if he displayed a few post moves and more effort toward the little things and was a less selfish teammate. that's asking him to be a completely different player though. maybe a new coach could bring that out of him. doubt it though.