Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 3

[CunningLinguist]

I thought Teague was terrific today. He got to the hoop at will.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Who said anything about assessing UNC's defense? Reading is FUNdamental.

Its more about realizing that taking anything away from that game is utterly pointless, as even scrub players come out looking good against the worst teams in the league.

That doesn't mean you can't learn about a player. Style of play stays true.

[CunningLinguist]

Davis is a beast. Cementing himself in the #1 spot.

Great defensive potential, for sure. I wish they involved him in the offense for more than alley oops because I'd like to better assess his offensive game. To be honest, I've seen more flashes of offensive skill from Jones and Drummond. That's not say he doesn't have those skills, it's just that he's not being asked to utilize them.

[Dr Positivity]

Honestly when I look at clips of PJIII's skillset, he looks like he can do almost as much on the perimeter as Barnes and is as fast. HBo has more range but in terms of on the ball skill I don't think he's a league above Perry if at all. Perry would have elite defensive potential at SF and I'm pretty sure he's a better passer than HBo. Might have Kirilenko type potential. Atm it really, really looks like PJIII's lack of toughness and interior ability at PF is going to piss his team's fans off incredibly hard

I think you could make the case that PJIII is as decent a SF option as HBo, but neither are ideal? Like 16 and 6 type SFs with elite defensive potential for both. I think we could be choosing between these two players after a lot of high potential bigs take up the early spots and MKG goes higher than both PJIII and HBo being a freshman and playing the best and most complete game right now

I believe there's as many as 6-8 prospects who would've gone #1 last year. I'm guessing Davis, Drummond, Leonard, Robinson, Barnes, MKG, Lamb and maybe PJIII would've all had a very very good shot at going ahead of Irving and Williams. If we're bottom 7 we're going to have at least 1 excellent prospect on the board

The difference for Cleveland of getting #1 and #4 in 2011 vs say getting #1 and #4 in 2012 is absolutely ridiculous. CLE was lucky enough to get those picks, but yeah... in 2012 if they did that they'd be so jacked. Hornets might be pulling that off this year

[nahom1319]

Who said anything about assessing UNC's defense? Reading is FUNdamental.

Its more about realizing that taking anything away from that game is utterly pointless, as even scrub players come out looking good against the worst teams in the league.

That doesn't mean you can't learn about a player. Style of play stays true.

Except when he goes against strong teams he crumbles....not to mention is inable to do anything other then shoot (inefficiently to say the least)

[Marlo Stanfield]

Its more about realizing that taking anything away from that game is utterly pointless, as even scrub players come out looking good against the worst teams in the league.

That doesn't mean you can't learn about a player. Style of play stays true.

Except when he goes against strong teams he crumbles....not to mention is inable to do anything other then shoot (inefficiently to say the least)

Well, last time I checked that's why he's considered a prospect so that he can improve the parts of his game that need improvement. And if you think 48.9% from 2, and 48.7% from 3 is inefficient shooting I don't think I need to continue this conversation.

[fredericklove]

That doesn't mean you can't learn about a player. Style of play stays true.

You're talking to a guy who wants to find every possible way he can to bash barnes even if he had a good game or a 40 point game so why bother arguing with him. Save your breath bro.

[Marlo Stanfield]

That doesn't mean you can't learn about a player. Style of play stays true.

You're talking to a guy who wants to find every possible way he can to bash barnes even if he had a good game or a 40 point game so why bother arguing with him. Save your breath bro.

You're right. I'm done debating with him.

[nahom1319]

That doesn't mean you can't learn about a player. Style of play stays true.

You're talking to a guy who wants to find every possible way he can to bash barnes even if he had a good game or a 40 point game so why bother arguing with him. Save your breath bro.

I happen to actually like barnes and think we'd be better off with him then without, but at the same time I can acknowledge his limitations. Or is that only a cool thing to do when he's a 7 footer who can't rebound?

I don't sugarcoat things about players and if I'm proven wrong am willing to humbly eat crow as I have done with Bargnani (who has been a most pleasant surprise). What I am not wiling to do is give a player credit for attacking the basket once against a bottom feeder team. All that proves is he's better then the players on THAT team, which hellllloooooo we already knew.

[CunningLinguist]

Honestly when I look at clips of PJIII's skillset, he looks like he can do almost as much on the perimeter as Barnes and is as fast. HBo has more range but in terms of on the ball skill I don't think he's a league above Perry if at all. Perry would have elite defensive potential at SF and I'm pretty sure he's a better passer than HBo. Might have Kirilenko type potential. Atm it really, really looks like PJIII's lack of toughness and interior ability at PF is going to piss his team's fans off incredibly hard

I think you could make the case that PJIII is as decent a SF option as HBo, but neither are ideal? Like 16 and 6 type SFs with elite defensive potential for both. I think we could be choosing between these two players after a lot of high potential bigs take up the early spots and MKG goes higher than both PJIII and HBo being a freshman and playing the best and most complete game right now

I believe there's as many as 6-8 prospects who would've gone #1 last year. I'm guessing Davis, Drummond, Leonard, Robinson, Barnes, MKG, Lamb and maybe PJIII would've all had a very very good shot at going ahead of Irving and Williams. If we're bottom 7 we're going to have at least 1 excellent prospect on the board

The difference for Cleveland of getting #1 and #4 in 2011 vs say getting #1 and #4 in 2012 is absolutely ridiculous. CLE was lucky enough to get those picks, but yeah... in 2012 if they did that they'd be so jacked. Hornets might be pulling that off this year

I don't think Jones will be able to defend the SF position very well. It's difficult for tall guys to get a low centre of gravity to guard smaller players. I do think he will play some SF early in his career until he's able to gain enough of strength to play more PF.

I think Jones has a higher ceiling than MKG and thus will be drafted higher. MKG, while a very nice player, doesn't look to me as being anything more than a 3rd option on offense. Of course he does bring a lot of other things to the table (defense, rebounding, passing). He just struggles to create his own of offense. His high shooting % is a result of how he scores his points (fast breaks, putbacks, alley-oops).

[CunningLinguist]

That doesn't mean you can't learn about a player. Style of play stays true.

You're talking to a guy who wants to find every possible way he can to bash barnes even if he had a good game or a 40 point game so why bother arguing with him. Save your breath bro.

I happen to actually like barnes and think we'd be better off with him then without, but at the same time I can acknowledge his limitations. Or is that only a cool thing to do when he's a 7 footer who can't rebound?

I don't sugarcoat things about players and if I'm proven wrong am willing to humbly eat crow as I have done with Bargnani (who has been a most pleasant surprise). What I am not wiling to do is give a player credit for attacking the basket once against a bottom feeder team. All that proves is he's better then the players on THAT team, which hellllloooooo we already knew.

He's been successfully attacking the basket against other teams as well this year, despite what that dweeb Chad Ford would have you believe.

[Marlo Stanfield]

What's the deal with Myck? A lot of people still seem extremely high on him, but I haven't seen him play so all I have is the statsheet and tbh it doesn't look impressive.

[Pseudonym]

What's the deal with Myck? A lot of people still seem extremely high on him

He's Canadian.

[nahom1319]

Well, last time I checked that's why he's considered a prospect so that he can improve the parts of his game that need improvement. And if you think 48.9% from 2, and 48.7% from 3 is inefficient shooting I don't think I need to continue this conversation.

Only games I consider worth counting so far are the game against ranked NCAA teams so the UK game and Wisconsin
which he went 4-9 from 2pts and 2-3 from 3pts 3rbs 1 stl 3 to ....ph and 6/7 from the ft line
and 1-7 from 2pts and 4-5 from 3pts 2rbs 0 stl 1 to

so he shot 31.25% from 2pts and a ridiculous 75% from 3pts. I watched both games and the games confirmed what I already knew he can shoot from deep but is ineffective off the dribble. Most of his movement with the ball is east to west and rarely was he able to drive the ball . His pg is largely unable to help him in this regard as he isn't able to attack the paint much either.

Would he look better with an attacking guard? Yes
Does it change the fact that he would still be a TO machine if he attempted to drive against nba defenses? No

He's a great 3pt shooter who could probably be coerced into playing good/great wing defense under Casey. He is a avg rebounder and can't create off the bounce, which means we would be reliant on a Nash like pg to keep our offense from stagnating. Wouldn't be my first choice but if we pick out of the top 5 I wouldn't be opposed to taking him.

However he still is largely a 1 trick pony. I would like to see some form of a post game from him as his height and supposed strength (unsure of how strong he actually is) would allow him to expand his game a bit.

[Undefeated]

For a player who has devoted himself to Chris Paul's Elite Guard camp, I'm still surprised he dribbles the ball off his foot sometimes and the lack of advanced ball handling. His fundamental handles are good, but I expected more. And talk about his non-existent left hand...

[CunningLinguist]

Well, last time I checked that's why he's considered a prospect so that he can improve the parts of his game that need improvement. And if you think 48.9% from 2, and 48.7% from 3 is inefficient shooting I don't think I need to continue this conversation.

Only games I consider worth counting so far are the game against ranked NCAA teams so the UK game and Wisconsin
which he went 4-9 from 2pts and 2-3 from 3pts 3rbs 1 stl 3 to ....ph and 6/7 from the ft line
and 1-7 from 2pts and 4-5 from 3pts 2rbs 0 stl 1 to

so he shot 31.25% from 2pts and a ridiculous 75% from 3pts. I watched both games and the games confirmed what I already knew he can shoot from deep but is ineffective off the dribble. Most of his movement with the ball is east to west and rarely was he able to drive the ball . His pg is largely unable to help him in this regard as he isn't able to attack the paint much either.

Would he look better with an attacking guard? Yes
Does it change the fact that he would still be a TO machine if he attempted to drive against nba defenses? No

He's a great 3pt shooter who could probably be coerced into playing good/great wing defense under Casey. He is a avg rebounder and can't create off the bounce, which means we would be reliant on a Nash like pg to keep our offense from stagnating. Wouldn't be my first choice but if we pick out of the top 5 I wouldn't be opposed to taking him.

However he still is largely a 1 trick pony. I would like to see some form of a post game from him as his height and supposed strength (unsure of how strong he actually is) would allow him to expand his game a bit.

In regard to the bolded points above, he's shown to me this year that he has both the ability to create off a couple dribbles as well as score in the post. He's got a great step back jumper. He can score in the midrange also. The idea that he's one dimensional is way overblown in my opinion. He'll have no trouble scoring at the next level. He will have to rely on craftiness rather than a great handle to attack the paint, not unlike Paul Pierce.

[nahom1319]

Well, last time I checked that's why he's considered a prospect so that he can improve the parts of his game that need improvement. And if you think 48.9% from 2, and 48.7% from 3 is inefficient shooting I don't think I need to continue this conversation.

Only games I consider worth counting so far are the game against ranked NCAA teams so the UK game and Wisconsin
which he went 4-9 from 2pts and 2-3 from 3pts 3rbs 1 stl 3 to ....ph and 6/7 from the ft line
and 1-7 from 2pts and 4-5 from 3pts 2rbs 0 stl 1 to

so he shot 31.25% from 2pts and a ridiculous 75% from 3pts. I watched both games and the games confirmed what I already knew he can shoot from deep but is ineffective off the dribble. Most of his movement with the ball is east to west and rarely was he able to drive the ball . His pg is largely unable to help him in this regard as he isn't able to attack the paint much either.

Would he look better with an attacking guard? Yes
Does it change the fact that he would still be a TO machine if he attempted to drive against nba defenses? No

He's a great 3pt shooter who could probably be coerced into playing good/great wing defense under Casey. He is a avg rebounder and can't create off the bounce, which means we would be reliant on a Nash like pg to keep our offense from stagnating. Wouldn't be my first choice but if we pick out of the top 5 I wouldn't be opposed to taking him.

However he still is largely a 1 trick pony. I would like to see some form of a post game from him as his height and supposed strength (unsure of how strong he actually is) would allow him to expand his game a bit.

In regard to the bolded points above, he's shown to me this year that he has both the ability to create off a couple dribbles as well as score in the post. He's got a great step back jumper. He can score in the midrange also. The idea that he's one dimensional is way overblown in my opinion. He'll have no trouble scoring at the next level. He will have to rely on craftiness rather than a great handle to attack the paint, not unlike Paul Pierce.

Yeah but its not like he's faced alot of tough teams, I have certain matchups circled on my calender but seeing him perform a few moves against a team that is vastly inferior doesn't impress me. I make big deals of the ranked games the unranked matchups i could care less.

[JN]

How about that amazing UCONN team with all those great prospects. Losing to Rutgers

[Snakeyes]

Looks like I'll be spending more time in this thread from now on.

[MagnusPinus]

We r one of the worst team in the Nba again... what a pity. Let's get some serious talent guys..