2012 Draft - Rank the PF/C Prospects

[Rockmaninoff]

Tim Duncan averaged 10 pts/10 rebs/4 blks, with a .593 TS and only 2.5 personal fouls, in 30 minutes a game, as a freshman at Wake Forest. Meyers Leonard? Not so much...

[Rockmaninoff]

Actually, if you want to compare someone in this draft to Tim Duncan, it would be Anthony Davis. Their freshman numbers are strikingly similar, but better for Davis.

[ManualRam]

Actually, if you want to compare someone in this draft to Tim Duncan, it would be Anthony Davis. Their freshman numbers are strikingly similar, but better for Davis.

because AD and young TD play nothing alike outside of being excellent rim protectors.

[ManualRam]

The guy more athletic and with better midrange game than Tim duncan working on another 6 point, 3 board whopper...against Nebraska.

I'm thinking Joseph Bertrand is just as good an NBA prospect as Leonard.

7/4, foul trouble, 24 min, 5 shots. he cant pass himself the ball.

how about you talk about MKG's line vs the 'lowly cocks? PJIII vs texas tech?

and no, joseph bertrand is nice, but all he has now is a pull up game. he's better than tyler griffey's scrub ass, but at least griffey knew how to make an entry pass.

[hello_melo]

The guy more athletic and with better midrange game than Tim duncan working on another 6 point, 3 board whopper...against Nebraska.

I'm thinking Joseph Bertrand is just as good an NBA prospect as Leonard.

7/4, foul trouble, 24 min, 5 shots. he cant pass himself the ball.

how about you talk about MKG's line vs the 'lowly cocks? PJIII vs texas tech?

and no, joseph bertrand is nice, but all he has now is a pull up game. he's better than tyler griffey's scrub ass, but at least griffey knew how to make an entry pass.

Well, at least MKG has proven himself repeatedly against elite teams. Leonard had a dominant game against Gonzaga and was reasonably effective against the mediocre frontcourts of Missouri and Minnesota, but has more disappearing acts than examples of showing up the way he ought to if he's even half the player most on this thread seem to think he is.

And its unfortunate I need to say this to someone who puts so much effort into basketball opinions, but I will state the obvious I suppose. Kentucky clearly doesn't need a huge effort from MKG to blow out South Carolina.

Illinois went down to the last second at home against Nebraska. And Leonard was a complete non-factor. Completely different situations.

Maybe if that scrub Bertrand hadn't used his nba caliber athleticism and midrange game to go 11 of 12, he would have passed it to the guy who isn't physical enough to get good post position but who would have gone 15 of 12 from the field for a 10 point Illini win.

[ManualRam]

The guy more athletic and with better midrange game than Tim duncan working on another 6 point, 3 board whopper...against Nebraska.

I'm thinking Joseph Bertrand is just as good an NBA prospect as Leonard.

7/4, foul trouble, 24 min, 5 shots. he cant pass himself the ball.

how about you talk about MKG's line vs the 'lowly cocks? PJIII vs texas tech?

and no, joseph bertrand is nice, but all he has now is a pull up game. he's better than tyler griffey's scrub ass, but at least griffey knew how to make an entry pass.

Well, at least MKG has proven himself repeatedly against elite teams. Leonard had a dominant game against Gonzaga and was reasonably effective against the mediocre frontcourts of Missouri and Minnesota, but has more disappearing acts than examples of showing up the way he ought to if he's even half the player most on this thread seem to think he is.

And its unfortunate I need to say this to someone who puts so much effort into basketball opinions, but I will state the obvious I suppose. Kentucky clearly doesn't need a huge effort from MKG to blow out South Carolina.

Illinois went down to the last second at home against Nebraska. And Leonard was a complete non-factor. Completely different situations.

Maybe if that scrub Bertrand hadn't used his nba caliber athleticism and midrange game to go 11 of 12, he would have passed it to the guy who isn't physical enough to get good post position but who would have gone 15 of 12 from the field for a 10 point Illini win.

really, mkg's effort wasnt needed yet he played all but 3 minutes in the SC game?

there are no excuses being made, that's exactly what happened. leonard was saddled with foul trouble and was quickly in and out of the game, never being able to establish a rhythm which again, is hindered by his lack of touches.

as much of a spark that bertrand has given illinois' offense from a slashing perspective, his floor game is not good. all he knows how to do offensively is to put his head down get in the paint and pull up. the only player in the starting lineup who knows how to make an entry pass is dj richardson.

[Rockmaninoff]

Actually, if you want to compare someone in this draft to Tim Duncan, it would be Anthony Davis. Their freshman numbers are strikingly similar, but better for Davis.

because AD and young TD play nothing alike outside of being excellent rim protectors.

You watched a ton of freshman year Tim Duncan, huh? I don't really care if they play nothing alike, in your hallowed opinion, because the results are the same.

Yep, I get that there is grey area in these statistics, but I would guess that TD and AD generated their stats in a similar manner as freshman. It doesn't matter if they don't look the same to you, because they are similarly effective.

I know your opinion is infallible, but the reality here is that it is extremely rare for a player (Leonard) to put up such **** stats as a freshman, and then subsequently morph into a dominant NBA player. But you keep dreaming and keep scouting...

[ManualRam]

Actually, if you want to compare someone in this draft to Tim Duncan, it would be Anthony Davis. Their freshman numbers are strikingly similar, but better for Davis.

because AD and young TD play nothing alike outside of being excellent rim protectors.

You watched a ton of freshman year Tim Duncan, huh? I don't really care if they play nothing alike, in your hallowed opinion, because the results are the same.

Yep, I get that there is grey area in these statistics, but I would guess that TD and AD generated their stats in a similar manner as freshman. It doesn't matter if they don't look the same to you, because they are similarly effective.

I know your opinion is infallible, but the reality here is that it is extremely rare for a player (Leonard) to put up such **** stats as a freshman, and then subsequently morph into a dominant NBA player. But you keep dreaming and keep scouting...

as a matter fact, yes , i do remember young tim duncan and he played nothing like AD.
comparing players just by the results is worthless.

no, that's not a reality. big men develop at different rates. and i never said that i think meyers will be dominant, but he does have great tools and a solid foundation of skills to become a good pro.
hmm...looking at this yrs projected lottery alone, how was thomas robinson as a freshman? how about jon henson?

[Dr Positivity]

You watched a ton of freshman year Tim Duncan, huh? I don't really care if they play nothing alike, in your hallowed opinion, because the results are the same.

Yep, I get that there is grey area in these statistics, but I would guess that TD and AD generated their stats in a similar manner as freshman. It doesn't matter if they don't look the same to you, because they are similarly effective.

I know your opinion is infallible, but the reality here is that it is extremely rare for a player (Leonard) to put up such **** stats as a freshman, and then subsequently morph into a dominant NBA player. But you keep dreaming and keep scouting...

That's really, really... really not a good way to scout prospects

I would go as far to say college scoring/assist stats are almost completley irrelevant. I mean there's times when great college stats players carry it to the next level - But it's not because of their college production, it's because the toolset that made them succesful statistically in the NCAA did the same for the NBA

Rebounds and blks production OTOH seems to translate pretty well

[Rockmaninoff]

You watched a ton of freshman year Tim Duncan, huh? I don't really care if they play nothing alike, in your hallowed opinion, because the results are the same.

Yep, I get that there is grey area in these statistics, but I would guess that TD and AD generated their stats in a similar manner as freshman. It doesn't matter if they don't look the same to you, because they are similarly effective.

I know your opinion is infallible, but the reality here is that it is extremely rare for a player (Leonard) to put up such **** stats as a freshman, and then subsequently morph into a dominant NBA player. But you keep dreaming and keep scouting...

as a matter fact, yes , i do remember young tim duncan and he played nothing like AD.
comparing players just by the results is worthless.

no, that's not a reality. big men develop at different rates. and i never said that i think meyers will be dominant, but he does have great tools and a solid foundation of skills to become a good pro.
hmm...looking at this yrs projected lottery alone, how was thomas robinson as a freshman? how about jon henson?

Neither Robinson nor Henson were very good as freshman, and I don't think either will be more than role players as pros. I don't put a ton of stock into NCAA development. The vast majority of the time, good NBA players are good NCAA players from the jump. I don't believe that the NCAA develops much more than NCAA skills. I also don't believe that NCAA coaches are stupid. Good players will play, regardless of status. I also don't believe that bigmen have some mythically alternate growth pattern. A foul and turnover prone big is almost always a foul and turnover prone big, unless they stop doing certain important things on defense and offense. Lastly, I don't believe in projecting my subjective opinions on the probabilities of player outcomes. I just go with what happens the majority of the time.

[Rockmaninoff]

You watched a ton of freshman year Tim Duncan, huh? I don't really care if they play nothing alike, in your hallowed opinion, because the results are the same.

Yep, I get that there is grey area in these statistics, but I would guess that TD and AD generated their stats in a similar manner as freshman. It doesn't matter if they don't look the same to you, because they are similarly effective.

I know your opinion is infallible, but the reality here is that it is extremely rare for a player (Leonard) to put up such **** stats as a freshman, and then subsequently morph into a dominant NBA player. But you keep dreaming and keep scouting...

That's really, really... really not a good way to scout prospects

I would go as far to say college scoring/assist stats are almost completley irrelevant. I mean there's times when great college stats players carry it to the next level - But it's not because of their college production, it's because the toolset that made them succesful statistically in the NCAA did the same for the NBA

Rebounds and blks production OTOH seems to translate pretty well

Right. I've found the majority of the time that if a player has a statistically significant freshman year, it translates to the NBA. I agree that statistics are derived from a skill set. I'm not saying that players retain the same percentages and such at that next level, just that they will likely be effective, if they were effective as freshman. The major caveat being that the player has the size and/or athleticism to play (defend) their NCAA position in the NBA.

I also don't look at every statistic. Just what I found to be important. You guys can do it however you want.

[hello_melo]

there are no excuses being made, that's exactly what happened. leonard was saddled with foul trouble and was quickly in and out of the game, never being able to establish a rhythm which again, is hindered by his lack of touches.

as much of a spark that bertrand has given illinois' offense from a slashing perspective, his floor game is not good. all he knows how to do offensively is to put his head down get in the paint and pull up. the only player in the starting lineup who knows how to make an entry pass is dj richardson.

Its a fact, MR.

Kentucky blew out South Carolina without a big offensive effort for MKG. There is no debate here. It happened. Gilchrist has proven he is capable of taking over games, he just didn't need to against a lousy team.

Illinois easily could have lost to freaking Nebraska, at home. Leonard's guards might do a bad job of getting him the ball, but he does a terrible job of fighting for good position. He should be able to contribute in plenty of other ways, even if he isn't getting fed the ball. Yet he did not. He's supposed to be this low post beast, but he doesn't handle contact well at all, and yesterday it was against freaking Nebraska.

Bertrand is the only reason Illinois won that game, and here you are wanting to blame him because your pet prospect didn't get the ball. Like I said, what do you think would have happened if Bertrand hadn't been able to get to the basket and finish difficult looks with ease? Would Leonard have 15 out of 12 from the floor instead of Betrand's 11?

Bertrand is the only player on that team with any guts - he likes the ball in crucial moments, and doesn't tighten up when the game is on the line like Leonard and pretty much everybody else on that team. Bertrand is definitely a college SF at this point, but to say he doesn't have a floor game is beyond ridiculous.

[ManualRam]

there are no excuses being made, that's exactly what happened. leonard was saddled with foul trouble and was quickly in and out of the game, never being able to establish a rhythm which again, is hindered by his lack of touches.

as much of a spark that bertrand has given illinois' offense from a slashing perspective, his floor game is not good. all he knows how to do offensively is to put his head down get in the paint and pull up. the only player in the starting lineup who knows how to make an entry pass is dj richardson.

Its a fact, MR.

Kentucky blew out South Carolina without a big offensive effort for MKG. There is no debate here. It happened. Gilchrist has proven he is capable of taking over games, he just didn't need to against a lousy team.

Illinois easily could have lost to freaking Nebraska, at home. Leonard's guards might do a bad job of getting him the ball, but he does a terrible job of fighting for good position. He should be able to contribute in plenty of other ways, even if he isn't getting fed the ball. Yet he did not. He's supposed to be this low post beast, but he doesn't handle contact well at all, and yesterday it was against freaking Nebraska.

Bertrand is the only reason Illinois won that game, and here you are wanting to blame him because your pet prospect didn't get the ball. Like I said, what do you think would have happened if Bertrand hadn't been able to get to the basket and finish difficult looks with ease? Would Leonard have 15 out of 12 from the floor instead of Betrand's 11?

Bertrand is the only player on that team with any guts - he likes the ball in crucial moments, and doesn't tighten up when the game is on the line like Leonard and pretty much everybody else on that team. Bertrand is definitely a college SF at this point, but to say he doesn't have a floor game is beyond ridiculous.

37 minutes in the game. what was the purpose of that in a "blowout"? cal thought he needed exercise?

leonard does fight and call for the ball. he'll set ball/baseline screens to free his guards. screen and seal, that's a motion staple. he's working but he's not seeing the ball, because hardly anybody has an ability to execute the high/low pass.
and i've already commented that yes, meyers does lack lower body strength. he's a bit top heavy and college bigs can get leverage on him, but when he does catch the ball in good position, he can do some advanced things with the ball.

and im not blaming bertrand at all. he's been great, but he is what he is. he's a scorer without much of a floor game. he doesnt spread the floor, not a great decision maker, not a good passer but he does add the slashing dimension that brandon paul was supposed to provide. since he started getting minutes again he's got a 4/9 A/T ratio. there are advantages and disadvantages of putting him over the ineffective griffey in the starting lineup. one advantage is that it forces opposing to teams to go small or risk getting their college 4's repeatedly beat off the dribble. one disadvantage is losing griffey's ability to make the high/low entry since everybody is fronting leonard and bringing the quick double from behind.

i wouldnt say the illini are full of guys who are scared down the stretch. leonard has made clutch plays down the stretch of games and dj richardson is never afraid to pull the trigger. paul's kinda sketchy because he lacks confidence in his jumper, and rightfully so. maniscalco and griffey are scrubs. the rest are raw freshmen. i'd say that down the stretch of games, they're handcuffed by weber's archaic, gene keady-esque stall ball offense. you can tell at the end of games that they're main priority is taking time off the clock as opposed to staying aggressive, executing or making a play.

[hello_melo]

there are no excuses being made, that's exactly what happened. leonard was saddled with foul trouble and was quickly in and out of the game, never being able to establish a rhythm which again, is hindered by his lack of touches.

as much of a spark that bertrand has given illinois' offense from a slashing perspective, his floor game is not good. all he knows how to do offensively is to put his head down get in the paint and pull up. the only player in the starting lineup who knows how to make an entry pass is dj richardson.

Its a fact, MR.

Kentucky blew out South Carolina without a big offensive effort for MKG. There is no debate here. It happened. Gilchrist has proven he is capable of taking over games, he just didn't need to against a lousy team.

Illinois easily could have lost to freaking Nebraska, at home. Leonard's guards might do a bad job of getting him the ball, but he does a terrible job of fighting for good position. He should be able to contribute in plenty of other ways, even if he isn't getting fed the ball. Yet he did not. He's supposed to be this low post beast, but he doesn't handle contact well at all, and yesterday it was against freaking Nebraska.

Bertrand is the only reason Illinois won that game, and here you are wanting to blame him because your pet prospect didn't get the ball. Like I said, what do you think would have happened if Bertrand hadn't been able to get to the basket and finish difficult looks with ease? Would Leonard have 15 out of 12 from the floor instead of Betrand's 11?

Bertrand is the only player on that team with any guts - he likes the ball in crucial moments, and doesn't tighten up when the game is on the line like Leonard and pretty much everybody else on that team. Bertrand is definitely a college SF at this point, but to say he doesn't have a floor game is beyond ridiculous.

37 minutes in the game. what was the purpose of that in a "blowout"? cal thought he needed exercise?

You've obviously lost the ability to reason in this discussion.

Are you really attempting to equate MKG's game, which his team won by 15, nearly doubled up the opposition by halftime, and which puts out 4 capable scorers on the floor with him at all times - to Leonard's squeaker in which he is the only player over 6'5 on his team even remotely capable of providing offense in the post?

Really?

leonard does fight and call for the ball. he'll set ball/baseline screens to free his guards. screen and seal, that's a motion staple. he's working but he's not seeing the ball, because hardly anybody has an ability to execute the high/low pass.
and i've already commented that yes, meyers does lack lower body strength. he's a bit top heavy and college bigs can get leverage on him, but when he does catch the ball in good position, he can do some advanced things with the ball.

Yeah, so he shies away from contact and doesn't have good lower body strength, but the real reason he doesn't get the ball is because Bruce Weber hasn't taught his backcourt full of veteran players how to execute a simple post entry pass. The brilliance just keeps on coming...

and im not blaming bertrand at all. he's been great, but he is what he is. he's a scorer without much of a floor game. he doesnt spread the floor, not a great decision maker, not a good passer but he does add the slashing dimension that brandon paul was supposed to provide. since he started getting minutes again he's got a 4/9 A/T ratio. there are advantages and disadvantages of putting him over the ineffective griffey in the starting lineup. one advantage is that it forces opposing to teams to go small or risk getting their college 4's repeatedly beat off the dribble. one disadvantage is losing griffey's ability to make the high/low entry since everybody is fronting leonard and bringing the quick double from behind.

He is what he is? After 5 games of getting real minutes, in which he shot freaking 70% from the floor? Ya sure about that? Thank god we don't use that same standard on Leonard, who is a potential top 5 pick based on assumptions that he'll improve and that his coach knows a lot less about basketball than you do.

i wouldnt say the illini are full of guys who are scared down the stretch. leonard has made clutch plays down the stretch of games and dj richardson is never afraid to pull the trigger. paul's kinda sketchy because he lacks confidence in his jumper, and rightfully so. maniscalco and griffey are scrubs. the rest are raw freshmen. i'd say that down the stretch of games, they're handcuffed by weber's archaic, gene keady-esque stall ball offense. you can tell at the end of games that they're main priority is taking time off the clock as opposed to staying aggressive, executing or making a play.

Leonard has made a lot more boneheaded plays down the stretch than clutch plays. So has everybody on the team, execpt for Bertrand. Who has made countless big ones since he started to get minutes. But it isn't the stocky, athletically limited PG who plays in an offense designed to create space and let guards penetrate that is who he is. Its the guy with elite athleticism and rare finishing ability who plays in an entirely stagnant, half court dominated offense.

Hmm...

[ManualRam]

You've obviously lost the ability to reason in this discussion.

Are you really attempting to equate MKG's game, which his team won by 15, nearly doubled up the opposition by halftime, and which puts out 4 capable scorers on the floor with him at all times - to Leonard's squeaker in which he is the only player over 6'5 on his team even remotely capable of providing offense in the post?

Really?

leonard does fight and call for the ball. he'll set ball/baseline screens to free his guards. screen and seal, that's a motion staple. he's working but he's not seeing the ball, because hardly anybody has an ability to execute the high/low pass.
and i've already commented that yes, meyers does lack lower body strength. he's a bit top heavy and college bigs can get leverage on him, but when he does catch the ball in good position, he can do some advanced things with the ball.

Yeah, so he shies away from contact and doesn't have good lower body strength, but the real reason he doesn't get the ball is because Bruce Weber hasn't taught his backcourt full of veteran players how to execute a simple post entry pass. The brilliance just keeps on coming...

and im not blaming bertrand at all. he's been great, but he is what he is. he's a scorer without much of a floor game. he doesnt spread the floor, not a great decision maker, not a good passer but he does add the slashing dimension that brandon paul was supposed to provide. since he started getting minutes again he's got a 4/9 A/T ratio. there are advantages and disadvantages of putting him over the ineffective griffey in the starting lineup. one advantage is that it forces opposing to teams to go small or risk getting their college 4's repeatedly beat off the dribble. one disadvantage is losing griffey's ability to make the high/low entry since everybody is fronting leonard and bringing the quick double from behind.

He is what he is? After 5 games of getting real minutes, in which he shot freaking 70% from the floor? Ya sure about that? Thank god we don't use that same standard on Leonard, who is a potential top 5 pick based on assumptions that he'll improve and that his coach knows a lot less about basketball than you do.

i wouldnt say the illini are full of guys who are scared down the stretch. leonard has made clutch plays down the stretch of games and dj richardson is never afraid to pull the trigger. paul's kinda sketchy because he lacks confidence in his jumper, and rightfully so. maniscalco and griffey are scrubs. the rest are raw freshmen. i'd say that down the stretch of games, they're handcuffed by weber's archaic, gene keady-esque stall ball offense. you can tell at the end of games that they're main priority is taking time off the clock as opposed to staying aggressive, executing or making a play.

Leonard has made a lot more boneheaded plays down the stretch than clutch plays. So has everybody on the team, execpt for Bertrand. Who has made countless big ones since he started to get minutes. But it isn't the stocky, athletically limited PG who plays in an offense designed to create space and let guards penetrate that is who he is. Its the guy with elite athleticism and rare finishing ability who plays in an entirely stagnant, half court dominated offense.

Hmm...

tell me, why did cal feel the need to play mkg 37 minutes in a blowout? lol
"im gonna play you heavy minutes...but hey, we dont need you to produce"

yes, leonard fights for position. he gets pushed off the block and he gets doubled, but saying that he doesnt fight for position is flat out wrong.
and no, he doesnt shy away from contact. its easy to get leverage on him because he lacks lower body strength. simple as that.

yes bertrand is what he is. i never said anything about what he can become, but right now he is an athletic slasher with a pull up game.

bertrand has come up big in the clutch, but im not gonna neglect talking about the rest of his game that needs work. right now, he's doing a lot of things that brandon paul was doing last yr before defenses starting keying on him. brandon paul's actually a better athlete, but he didnt improve the rest of his game enough for opposing teams to NOT play him for the drive. it's up to bertrand to prove that he can be better than paul. i dont know enough about bertrand's work ethic to think that he will or not.

[hello_melo]

You didn't answer the question. The situation still isn't even remotely similar to what the Illini and Leonard did vs Nebraska. If you really think it is similar, come out and say it so everybody will know how far you are willing to go to not have to admit you said something ridiculous.

Furthermore, Brandon Paul has been a complete basketcase in clutch situations since he first set foot on the court at Illinois. He's generally padded his stats against teams he can overwhelm athletically, and that isn't the case with Bertrand at all. Paul isn't remotely the penetrator or finisher that Bertrand is - the fact that you even attempt to bring it up really does show your inability analyze how a player fits into the team concept.

Paul's had 3 years to assert himself as a leader on that team, and Bertrand has accomplished more in that direction in 5 games.

[ManualRam]

You didn't answer the question. The situation still isn't even remotely similar to what the Illini and Leonard did vs Nebraska. If you really think it is similar, come out and say it so everybody will know how far you are willing to go to not have to admit you said something ridiculous.

Furthermore, Brandon Paul has been a complete basketcase in clutch situations since he first set foot on the court at Illinois. He's generally padded his stats against teams he can overwhelm athletically, and that isn't the case with Bertrand at all. Paul isn't remotely the penetrator or finisher that Bertrand is - the fact that you even attempt to bring it up really does show your inability analyze how a player fits into the team concept.

Paul's had 3 years to assert himself as a leader on that team, and Bertrand has accomplished more in that direction in 5 games.

what question? one player was saddled with foul trouble and played 24 minutes. the other played 37 minutes. neither were productive. is it ok to play 37 minutes and not be productive? go ahead and nitpick that.

and yes paul is a very athletic slasher. more athletic than bertrand, but he doesnt have the changes of speed or slipperiness that bertrand has. paul is more so a straight line drive and explosive finisher.

and no, bertrand has only established that he's played well in the last few games. there's not a big enough sample size to draw any conclusion.

[hello_melo]

what question? one player was saddled with foul trouble and played 24 minutes. the other played 37 minutes. neither were productive. is it ok to play 37 minutes and not be productive? go ahead and nitpick that.

Given the fact that Kentucky had nearly doubled up the opposition by halftime and that there are 5 other players on Kentucky perfectly capable of being the feature scorer, an occasional light scoring outing isn't something to be concerned about.

Given that Illinois could barely beat the bottom feeders of the conference and were desperate for any sort of halfway decent offense, Meyers Leonard being a complete nonfactor for 3 consecutive games in which the opposition had no size to contest him, I don't think the situations are even remotely comparable.

Now are you going to come out and say that the situations were comparable - which you know full well was why you brought it up and understood that it was a ridiculous comparison long before you typed it - or are you going to keep beating around the bush?

What will it be, Mr Consistency?

and no, bertrand has only established that he's played well in the last few games. there's not a big enough sample size to draw any conclusion.

He's played big minutes in roughly 3 fewer meaningful games than the guy you will take to your grave as better than Darren Collison (and been more effective, I might add).

Mr Consistency strikes again...

[ManualRam]

what question? one player was saddled with foul trouble and played 24 minutes. the other played 37 minutes. neither were productive. is it ok to play 37 minutes and not be productive? go ahead and nitpick that.

Given the fact that Kentucky had nearly doubled up the opposition by halftime and that there are 5 other players on Kentucky perfectly capable of being the feature scorer, an occasional light scoring outing isn't something to be concerned about.

Given that Illinois could barely beat the bottom feeders of the conference and were desperate for any sort of halfway decent offense, Meyers Leonard being a complete nonfactor for 3 consecutive games in which the opposition had no size to contest him, I don't think the situations are even remotely comparable.

Now are you going to come out and say that the situations were comparable - which you know full well was why you brought it up and understood that it was a ridiculous comparison long before you typed it - or are you going to keep beating around the bush?

What will it be, Mr Consistency?

and no, bertrand has only established that he's played well in the last few games. there's not a big enough sample size to draw any conclusion.

He's played big minutes in roughly 3 fewer meaningful games than the guy you will take to your grave as better than Darren Collison (and been more effective, I might add).

Mr Consistency strikes again...

mkg played 37 minutes. no coach plays their player 37 minutes and tells them not to be productive.

bertrand has been a starter for 4 games and has just recently worked his way back into the rotation. prior to the mizzou game he hadnt even played more than 22 minutes a game all season.

[Kirsten19]

John Henson is so underrated here

Can be a new Marcus Camby in NBA, for a player who is famous of his defensive instincts and averages 3 or more blks a game in ACC conference,his 1.6 personal fouls a game(!!!!) shows that he actually is a lot more than just being extremely long and atheltic, he has good bball iq n good understanding of the game too

Henson averages 15pts, 10 rebounds and 3 blks a game in a more conpetitive conference like the ACC, n i think rebounding translates, so i think he actually has very low bust rate

He hs an improved offensive game and listed at 6'11" with a 7'6" wingspan that helps him in NBA for sure.

I still think Leonard is a better prospect with higher ceiling, but Henson is definitely underrated here