2012 NBA Draft

[Ruzious]

Not really, hermit. What stood out to me was the lack of talent and lack of intelligence throughout the linuep. Except for Blatche, I think the effort was generally there.

[pancakes3]

Exceptions that prove the rule? How many successful NBA players are there that fit into your "rule", if any?

"exception that proves the rule" is an old tongue-in-cheek adage that translates to "yeah but still..." and i had intended to use it tongue-in-cheekily. maybe an emoticon would have been better?

and you're right to say that there aren't many NBA pros that are back-to-back ACC double-double guys that also blocked 3 shots but there's at least one that comes more readily to mind than shelden williams, no? hint: he's tall, stoic, and brought 5 championship trophies to san antonio.

note: i do not think jon henson is going to be the next tim duncan. i was merely trying to hyperbolically note the impressive nature of being a double-double guy in the ACC.

[tontoz]

Exceptions that prove the rule? How many successful NBA players are there that fit into your "rule", if any?

"exception that proves the rule" is an old tongue-in-cheek adage that translates to "yeah but still..." and i had intended to use it tongue-in-cheekily. maybe an emoticon would have been better?

and you're right to say that there aren't many NBA pros that are back-to-back ACC double-double guys that also blocked 3 shots but there's at least one that comes more readily to mind than shelden williams, no? hint: he's tall, stoic, and brought 5 championship trophies to san antonio.

note: i do not think jon henson is going to be the next tim duncan. i was merely trying to hyperbolically note the impressive nature of being a double-double guy in the ACC.

Any Duncan calibur player coming out now would not be in the ACC long enough to post two double double seasons. That is the case with the vast majority of the best players, hence the double double business isn't very significant.

[tontoz]

Not really, hermit. What stood out to me was the lack of talent and lack of intelligence throughout the linuep. Except for Blatche, I think the effort was generally there.

This team is filled with athletic guys who lack basketball skills and basketball IQ. That is a clear indictment of the GM's drafting priorities.

I can see having a mix of guys like this and high skill/IQ guys. I can't see drafting low skill/IQ guys over and over and over.

This team is really hard to watch.

[queridiculo]

Not really, hermit. What stood out to me was the lack of talent and lack of intelligence throughout the linuep. Except for Blatche, I think the effort was generally there.

I was commenting on the teams effort level and how consistently low it is. Not this game in particular, just the teams play in general.

[llcc25]

Andre Drummond just announced that as of now, he his coming back to UCONN next year. I guess. that makes our decision much easier if we end up with the #1 pick. I think Anthony Davis is the clear #1 pick if Drummond stays in college.

[nate33]

I didn't think there was any doubt at #1 anyhow. It's clearly Anthony Davis for this team.

I would take Drummond's statement with a grain of salt. Very few freshman willingly admit so early in the college season that they're definitely going pro. As long as there is some sort of caveat in his statement such as "as of now", then the statement is essentially worthless.

[Ruzious]

Not really, hermit. What stood out to me was the lack of talent and lack of intelligence throughout the linuep. Except for Blatche, I think the effort was generally there.

I was commenting on the teams effort level and how consistently low it is. Not this game in particular, just the teams play in general.

Actually, I was talking about what I thought you were talking about - last season. In general, the effort was as good or better than your average NBA team.

[fishercob]

I'm not giving my opinion. I'm looking up historical data. Again, Flip's Piston teams were 4th, 7th and 5th in defensive efficiency. The previous four seasons the Pistons were, 3rd, 2nd, 4th, and 8th.

For what it's worth, Flip's teams were far better than Brown's offensively. You can look it up.

How much of that defensive proficiency was a result of Saunders coaching though? By the time Flip took over, that Pistons team had already won a championship in large part because of their defensive prowess and had established an identity that was very heavily centered around defense and rebounding.

That Pistons team featured guys that understood what it took to win a championship and didn't need much help in that respect. What they needed was help on offense and based on the numbers I don't see that Saunders did very much to distinguish himself in that respect.

Saunders never managed to earn the respect of the players, and to me that's something that stands out far more than the wins and losses.

We're way off topic here. But just to refresh, this evolved (devolved?) out of nate's question as to whether or not Sullinger had the physical attributes to be a key player on a good defensive team. Nate then asked the question:

"is Flip THAT much worse as a defensive coach than the elite coaches in the league?"

Based on the three full years that Flip coached in Detroit after Brown and Carlisle, the answer is know. He may be worse, but he's clearly not a lot worse. The data supports that.

As to whether Flip's Piston teams distinguished themselves offensively from those of his predecessors:

07-08: Saunders, 6th in ORtg
06-07: Saunders, 6th in ORtg
05-06: Saunders, 4th in ORtg
04-05: Brown, 17th in ORtg
03-04: Brown, 18th in ORtg
02-03: Carlisle, 15th in ORtg

Flip's Pistons flamed out deep in the playoffs. I'm sure he bears some responsibility for that, as did his aging roster and better competition. But let's not pretend that given similar talent to other excellent coaches (Brown and Carlisle) that Flip was somehow out of his depth.

[Ruzious]

Add this guy to the draft watch. West Virginia's Kevin Jones

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kevin-Jones-5256/



I ignored his stats before, because he's a senior. Today, he had 22 points and 16 rebounds in WVUs win over Georgetown.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball ... 1201070636

After Sullinger and Robinson, Jones should figure in the mix of guys with NBA games suited to meet the Wizards' needs at PF. If drafting for need in round 2, this guy better not be a guy the Wizards pass over.

I love the way he plays - he's pure aggression, no hesitation - so even if he takes a bad shot - at least he doesn't bog down the offense - and notice the low turnover rate - just like Jamison. If he was only 2 inches taller. It's interesting - even though he's a great offensive rebounder, he takes a lot of 3's - unfortunately, he misses most of them. He missed one by 5 feet tonight against UConn. If he can improve that shot, what a weapon he could be off the bench for somebody. Love the way he rebounds - he boxes out because he has to - he's short and not a great leaper - and he goes right after the ball - doesn't wait for the ball to come to him - shades of DeJuan Blair. But as Dat said, gotta wonder about a late bloomer, and he's 22 - will turn 23 before his rookie year starts. Still - like CCJ said - if he's there with the Wiz 2nd rounder - take him. So what if he's just like Booker - you can always use a guy like him - especially if he makes that 3 point shot legit.

[sfam]

While I probably agree that Anthony Davis is the best prospect out there, I'm not sure I see him making a Blake Edwards type difference in his first year. Davis really looks like he needs another year or two of filling out to start dominating. Contrast this with Sullinger, who looks like he could sleepwalk to an 18/9 season his first year. Anyone disagree with this?

[Ruzious]

Oh, I agree. Sulllinger probably will put up better number than Davis in their rookie years.

Btw, Drummond is playing tremendous ball at both ends tonight against WVU. He's got 4 fouls - the 2 calls I saw against him were phantom calls - maybe the officials thought they needed to even the playing field.

[Benjammin]

Drummond did look good tonight and if it's likely he's a top four pick I doubt very seriously he stays at UConn for another year.

[Higga]

Sully is the safer pick but doesn't have the star potential Davis does. Obviously Davis is the #1 prospect but if we end up picking like 6th again I'd be happy with Sully.

[Benjammin]

An interesting possibility if the lottery doesn't go well would also be Thomas Robinson of Kansas. It sounds like he might also be a high character guy as well as being from Washington DC. I don't know that he will ever be a big offensive player but he should be outstanding defensively and on the boards.

http://tinyurl.com/d9t7tmj (This is an ESPN story about how he has dealt with family tragedies.)

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I was able to catch part of Drummond/Lamb vs Kevin Jones today.

Like all three players. Lamb is perfect for the Wizards at SG.

Drummond is probably going to turn pro, regardless of what he's saying now. He reminds me of Darryl Dawkins, only he's more massive.

Kevin Jones is not DeJuan Blair on the boards, but he's a more sophisticated scorer. Jones reminds me a lot of David West. Jones is aggressive and will do well in the NBA.

All three of those guys will make good $ in the NBA for years to come.

[Severn Hoos]

While I probably agree that Anthony Davis is the best prospect out there, I'm not sure I see him making a Blake Edwards type difference in his first year.

Well, Blake Edwards' first big Hollywood movie was Operation Petticoat. Lighthearted fun, but not exactly Oscar material, if you know what I mean. His next big effort was Breakfast at Tiffany's. Now, I know a lot of people think that's a great movie, but to me it was completely overrated, my least favorite Audrey Hepburn movie. But his third big movie - The Pink Panther - now, that's where he really hit his stride, and began a period of prolonged excellence.

Maybe that's the trendline for Wall? The initial season was positive but ultimately unfulfilling. 2nd effort has lots of promise but ends in disappointment. 3rd season is magical, one for the ages. Yeah, that'd work for me.

Davis really looks like he needs another year or two of filling out to start dominating. Contrast this with Sullinger, who looks like he could sleepwalk to an 18/9 season his first year. Anyone disagree with this?

OK, snark aside - I do think Sullinger looks to be at least a 12-15 PPG guy, and at least 7-9 Rebounds, and could very easily exceed those numbers. And while I am among his biggest defenders on this board, even I would have to take Davis first. The potential is just too great - but what's more, Davis has already showed enough consistent production that his Bust Factor is incredibly low. Sullinger could be a better fit on offense, Davis the better fit on defense. But it's not like Davis' offense is poor - and he is more likely to improve his offense than Sullinger is to improve his defensive impact.

But yeah, Sullinger with an 18/9 next year would make me very happy.

[sfam]

Sully is the safer pick but doesn't have the star potential Davis does. Obviously Davis is the #1 prospect but if we end up picking like 6th again I'd be happy with Sully.

No way Sully will be there at #6. I'd be shocked.

[TheBigThree]

I'm not a big college basketball fan, in fact I'd hardly call myself a fan at all.

Can someone explain to me why Anthony Davis is the consensus #1 pick? I've watched some highlights that are up on YouTube of various games and came away thoroughly unimpressed.

He doesn't appear to have any offensive game at all and, unless he fills out quite a bit, he looks virtually identical to McGee to me. Clearly an uninformed opinion, I admin, but can someone fill me in? Most of the top 2 guard picks look substantially better to me, and while Drummond appears to be a big risk (if he comes out) he at least appears to have the size I'd want.

[dobrojim]

He doesn't appear to have any offensive game at all

I've only seen a little of him and while I can see where those
comments come from, what I have read in box scores would
indicate that he is a very efficient albeit possibly low usage
player. He's no Novitzki but he probably won't hurt you
unless, like us, you really need scoring. Which isn't to say
we shouldn't take him if given the opportunity.