1PM, Rubio VS Wall (Wolves - Wiz Game Thread)

[hands11]

Lewis slipped on a bar of soap and his face inadvertantly hit Cassell's championship ring.

owww

That was ended classier then I thought it would.

tontoz - Thanks for setting the record straight. Plenty of valid stuff to bitch at me about without people making stuff up..

[DaRealHibachi]

Lewis slipped on a bar of soap and his face inadvertantly hit Cassell's championship ring.

owww

That was ended classier then I thought it would.

tontoz - Thanks for setting the record straight. Plenty of valid stuff to bitch at me about without people making stuff up..

Cool, my bad... I probably had you confused with someone else...

Point still stands though; You consistently talk about how Wall fails to do this, that and the third, while consistently giving Dray a pass for example; at least be consistent with your bashing dude...

Wall has had a better season than Dray has in 7 years, for all his flaws he has put together a pretty remarkable rookie campaign, while Dray with all his talent & skills, half-asses it through his career and yet you say he is less to blame than a second-year player...???

[hands11]

Lewis slipped on a bar of soap and his face inadvertantly hit Cassell's championship ring.

owww

That was ended classier then I thought it would.

tontoz - Thanks for setting the record straight. Plenty of valid stuff to bitch at me about without people making stuff up..

Cool, my bad... I probably had you confused with someone else...

Point still stands though; You consistently talk about how Wall fails to do this, that and the third, while consistently giving Dray a pass for example; at least be consistent with your bashing dude...

Wall has had a better season than Dray has in 7 years, for all his flaws he has put together a pretty remarkable rookie campaign, while Dray with all his talent & skills, half-asses it through his career and yet you say he is less to blame than a second-year player...???

Wall has more physical talent then Dray. I expect more from him. He was also the #1 pick. He even had more college experience then Dray. And he was supposed to be a know character type person. A franchise player. That is why he was picked #1.

I have busted on Dray this year. I was very pissed he showed up out of shape. I said he blow it and I wouldn't blame them if they traded him. I had never signed off on trading Dray before this year. So there you have it. There is your fair and balanced.

But Wall has been way more disappointing then Dray has been given what was expected from him.

I hope Wall goes back and watches how he played in the Boston game and stops with the crazy play shot jacking and sprinting crash dummy stuff. It doesn't work. It will never work.

[JonathanJoseph]

Lewis slipped on a bar of soap and his face inadvertantly hit Cassell's championship ring.

owww

That was ended classier then I thought it would.

tontoz - Thanks for setting the record straight. Plenty of valid stuff to bitch at me about without people making stuff up..

Cool, my bad... I probably had you confused with someone else...

Point still stands though; You consistently talk about how Wall fails to do this, that and the third, while consistently giving Dray a pass for example; at least be consistent with your bashing dude...

Wall has had a better season than Dray has in 7 years, for all his flaws he has put together a pretty remarkable rookie campaign, while Dray with all his talent & skills, half-asses it through his career and yet you say he is less to blame than a second-year player...???

Yes, the biggest contributor to the Wizards problems right now is John Wall and his complete inability to run an NBA offense. While it's not his fault, he's shown zero leadership or accountability and his "get shots for me first" approach has permeated to the other players who are forced to go 1-on-1 because there is no offense and because Captain John Wall plays that way.

Whether Blatche is lazy or been in the league longer has nothing to do with this. Blatche isn't initiating the worst-in-recent-NBA-history offense, Wall is.

[Nivek]

Just thought it might be worth mentioning that Wall is 4th on the team in FGA per minute -- behind Young, Crawford and Blatche. All of whom have been shooting the ball almost as badly as Wall has. Wall shoots about as frequently per minute as Shelvin Mack and Javale McGee.

Somebody has to shoot the ball. I have no problem with Wall shooting even less, but...who gets those shots?

[tontoz]

Yes, the biggest contributor to the Wizards problems right now is John Wall and his complete inability to run an NBA offense. While it's not his fault, he's shown zero leadership or accountability and his "get shots for me first" approach has permeated to the other players who are forced to go 1-on-1 because there is no offense and because Captain John Wall plays that way.

Whether Blatche is lazy or been in the league longer has nothing to do with this. Blatche isn't initiating the worst-in-recent-NBA-history offense, Wall is.

Wall averaged 8 assists as a rookie, more than your unemployed idol did in his entire career. As always, your argument makes no sense.

[DaRealHibachi]

Yes, the biggest contributor to the Wizards problems right now is John Wall and his complete inability to run an NBA offense. While it's not his fault, he's shown zero leadership or accountability and his "get shots for me first" approach has permeated to the other players who are forced to go 1-on-1 because there is no offense and because Captain John Wall plays that way.

Whether Blatche is lazy or been in the league longer has nothing to do with this. Blatche isn't initiating the worst-in-recent-NBA-history offense, Wall is.

Wall averaged 8 assists as a rookie, more than your unemployed idol did in his entire career. As always, your argument makes no sense.

You know I was typing up a response for both these guys (about this myth that college years are seemingly more important than actual NBA years to some; the myth that because you are chosen first, you have to have a LeBron/Rose type impact otherwise you're overrated; also that Wall was running the offense quite well last year, even with all his flaws, but all of a sudden he's a ego-tripping, ball-hogging shot-jacker), but it's like talking to a damn wall... It's no use...

[popper]

I have been through this many times in my life. Company's call me in when all else seems hopeless. I wish EG would call me in now (msg. to TL: an ex-colleague of your's at AOL with the initials of FG knows how to contact me and would very much like to help). The Wizards players, and coaches too, need a heart to heart. They need to see a man up front and personal that demands and inspires performance. The current team yearns for leadership. I had floor seats when the Bullets won the championship many years ago. The current leadership needs a helping hand.

[dobrojim]

It's NOT POSSIBLE for this team to be worse than last year's. It's just not.

Yes it is. Last year people dogged Hinrich and Thornton a lot, but how many players on this team are better than those 2?

Yi is garbage, but he could make open jumpers consistently.

KH and AT both are vets who play hard and appear to have some
knowledge of how to play ie where to be on the court, what passes
to make and not make etc.

Yi's shooting % was not that great in no small part because his fav
shot is the worst shot in bb, the long 2 pt shot. Like Blatche, he was
never very efficient.

[JonathanJoseph]

You know I was typing up a response for both these guys (about this myth that college years are seemingly more important than actual NBA years to some; the myth that because you are chosen first, you have to have a LeBron/Rose type impact otherwise you're overrated; also that Wall was running the offense quite well last year, even with all his flaws, but all of a sudden he's a ego-tripping, ball-hogging shot-jacker), but it's like talking to a damn wall... It's no use...

I'd settle for an Andrea Bargniani or Kyrie Irving type impact. Sadly, we are no where near that.

Whatever you want to say, he's unimproved, playing bad basketball and tuning out his coach. He's the PG of what is so far the worst offense in the NBA in decades.

Would I like it to be different? Yes. But it's not.

[Benjammin]

You know I was typing up a response for both these guys (about this myth that college years are seemingly more important than actual NBA years to some; the myth that because you are chosen first, you have to have a LeBron/Rose type impact otherwise you're overrated; also that Wall was running the offense quite well last year, even with all his flaws, but all of a sudden he's a ego-tripping, ball-hogging shot-jacker), but it's like talking to a damn wall... It's no use...

I'd settle for an Andrea Bargniani or Kyrie Irving type impact. Sadly, we are no where near that.

Whatever you want to say, he's unimproved, playing bad basketball and tuning out his coach. He's the PG of what is so far the worst offense in the NBA in decades.

Would I like it to be different? Yes. But it's not.

Have you actually seen Bargnani play? Ask some Toronto fans about him. I'm not ready to anoint Irving after a handful of games. Would I like for Wall to be playing better, absolutely. Does he have a lot to improve in his game, oh yes. I think given the circumstances his attitude has been fine. I'm not overly concerned about Wall long-term, but if he doesn't develop into a high quality player the Wizards are even further behind in their rebuild.

[tontoz]

So far Irving is averaging 15pts, 5 assists, and 4 rebounds with 3 turnovers. Lets assume for the sake of argument that he maintains that production for the whole season. Other than his 3 point shooting i dont see how he is more productive than Wall was last year.

[sfam]

So far Irving is averaging 15pts, 5 assists, and 4 rebounds with 3 turnovers. Lets assume for the sake of argument that he maintains that production for the whole season. Other than his 3 point shooting i dont see how he is more productive than Wall was last year.

He's more productive than Wall last year because he's this year's new shiny model. Wall is already a busted has-been who should be carted off to the D-League for a few years while Irving is clearly the next coming of Chris Paul. That's the data that underlies this.

[Dat2U]

You know I was typing up a response for both these guys (about this myth that college years are seemingly more important than actual NBA years to some; the myth that because you are chosen first, you have to have a LeBron/Rose type impact otherwise you're overrated; also that Wall was running the offense quite well last year, even with all his flaws, but all of a sudden he's a ego-tripping, ball-hogging shot-jacker), but it's like talking to a damn wall... It's no use...

I'd settle for an Andrea Bargniani or Kyrie Irving type impact. Sadly, we are no where near that.

Whatever you want to say, he's unimproved, playing bad basketball and tuning out his coach. He's the PG of what is so far the worst offense in the NBA in decades.

Would I like it to be different? Yes. But it's not.

Tuning out his coach? Bargnani type impact? Do you make this stuff up. LOL

[fishercob]

He's a troll, Dat.

[SUPERBALLMAN]

What's puzzling is Wall's regression from his play last year. This team overall cannot shoot, but Wall looked much better the end of last season with the likes of Crawford and Jeffers. You would think adding guys like Young, Lewis, Mason to the mix would help somewhat. I mean he was clearly outplayed by Rubio. Other than his ability to race down the court on his 1-man fast break, which is impressive to see, he really seems to have no pg skills (handle, deft passing, soft hands, court vision, ability to run a team or manage a game). He certainly is no Magic Johnson. I'm wondering at this point if he'll even be Kevin Johnson level. I mean the Derrick Rose comparisons need to stop. I just am not seeing the pg skills or abilities I could see in guys like Isiah, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Penny Hardaway, Kenny Anderson, Chris Paul. Not to mention he is completely void of personality. Never smiles, his interviews fast mumbling of generic cliches. At least Webber and Arenas had charisma. John Wall does not seem to have that inspiration factor.

I mean watching him... a guy he reminds me of at this point is Robert Pack. Nothing special, but was extremely fast. Not a good shooter, but could rack up some assist totals and get some steals, not an especially good defender though, and couldn't stay healthy. Given Wall's lack of skills, his best bet at becoming an effective pg is to model his game after Gary Payton. He does have the tools to be a top defensive pg, and that IMO is really where he should focus his efforts.

Maybe I'm overreacting. But for a #1 overall pick and supposed savior of the franchise, Wall is the biggest disapointment of this season so far to me.

[Dat2U]

I think what many Wall supporters are saying is he's being sabotaged by the roster around him. How do create easy shots for unskilled players that can't shoot or idiots that can't follow direction and run the basic offensive sets?

Wall's court vision is fine. But no one is making shots. No one sets good picks (on ocassion Booker & Seraphin will). No one is where they are supposed to be. Everyone is going one & one (including Wall now because he lacks trust in his teammates). The lane is packed because we've got a lineup filled with bricklayers. Everyone is standing around because we've got so many ballstoppers.

Who could be successful in this environment? What would Rubio, Rose or any other PG do under this current scenario?

And superballman, why would Wall smile? What is there to smile about? Last years team was just putrid, this years team is potentially historically bad.

I don't see how anyone can blame Wall for this. He's being pulled down into a whirpool of suckiness that's been created by Leonsis & Grunfeld. I'm all for building through the draft, but you don't intentionally put together a roster that fosters such a terrible environment. The lack of b-ball IQ, heart & character of players that Ernie put together is unmatched.

[LyricalRico]

Other than his ability to race down the court on his 1-man fast break, which is impressive to see, he really seems to have no pg skills (handle, deft passing, soft hands, court vision, ability to run a team or manage a game). He certainly is no Magic Johnson. I'm wondering at this point if he'll even be Kevin Johnson level. I mean the Derrick Rose comparisons need to stop. I just am not seeing the pg skills or abilities I could see in guys like Isiah, Kidd, Nash, Stockton, Penny Hardaway, Kenny Anderson, Chris Paul. Not to mention he is completely void of personality. Never smiles, his interviews fast mumbling of generic cliches. At least Webber and Arenas had charisma. John Wall does not seem to have that inspiration factor.

Agree 100%. I made a statement a week or so ago that Wall was clearly a level below where the other young PGs were at the same stage and I still stand by it.

I also agree with those that say that Wall needs better players around him to reach his full potential. I don't think those ideas are mutually exclusive. Where we probably differ is when it comes to what that "full potential" actually is.

[Illuminaire]

When Wall came into the league, I questioned his passing ability. By the end of the season, though, I was won over. He showed excellent court vision and a strong sense of where his teammates were going to be. He made every kind of pass a PG needs to make, and was accurate and timely in doing so. He did not look like a Steve Nash, but he looked solidly in the next tier of PGs in terms of passing ability only.

This season Wall does not appear to be passing as much or as confidently. That does appear to be a function of the players around him. He simply doesn't trust them to follow the plays or finish them if he gets them the ball.

I think judging Wall's development and true ability level right now is a very tricky proposition, and we should all be wary of making definitive claims when there are a LOT of external factors clouding his play.

[tontoz]

^ Exactly, which is why i am not giving much weight to some of the areas Wall is struggling in.

I am very concerned with his jumper which is putrid and realistically shouldn't be affected by the garbage cans around him. An open shot is an open shot and he isn't making them. many of them are missing by a lot.