OFFICIAL - Amare Must Go Thread (all hate here) #TRADESTAT

[Nutty Nats Fan]

It isn't overreaction if you've been in favor of trading him long before the season started.

If amare becomes a solid 20/10 guy he is worth every penny.

You forgot and plays good defense. Averaging 20/10 does not make a player worth $100 million. Stats aren't everything.

[albert]

Some of these fans have already forgotten that A.) Amare is not only coming off an injury, but was also forced to rehab an injured back during the offseason due to a postseason pulled back muscle during last years playoffs against Boston, B.) A rusty Amare Stoudemire (due to a pulled back muscle) never had the chance to have a full offseason of training camp or practice, and only played two preseason games due to a shortened offseason thanks to a potential lockout and last but not least, some of these sorry ass fans turned on Amare Stoudemire because of two off nights (games). Which was (and has been) pathetic in it's own right.

I guess Amare should have said "sorry" for being rusty despite the different types of situations he was playing through.

Explain to me why we should buy your argument that he's rusty because of physical health (and why, assuming that rust explains his poor play on defense, this earns him a pass on the defensive end).

Reminder: Amare has come to say that he's in the best shape of his career, packing on 20 additional pounds of muscle, and growing an inch as a result of his core training to rehab and strengthen his back. Not to mention that he had an extended offseason to do so.

Explain to me why I should believe that Amare's defense instincts in those two off-nights are not indicative of future play when his entire career (both with PHX and NY) has shown to be the same level of atrocity.

Reminder: here are the starting 4's of the past championship teams, all clearly superior in defensive ability

Dirk
Pau Gasol
KG
Tim Duncan
Udonis Haslem
Rasheed Wallace

Explain to me why I should believe that lack of team chemistry (apparently as a result of a shortened training camp and 2 preseason games) explains Amare's pitiful individual efforts on the defensive end.

Reminder: Amare has played under Mike D'Antoni for almost half of his career. Melo, TD, Bill Walker, Jeffries, Fields, Balkman, were all part of the playoff team. The rest of the signees were/are generally playing similar roles on the floor (essentially, spacing the floor or as a slasher who can create for others on offense, plus the same basic scheme as last season on defense). No major surprises. The only major additional piece was Tyson Chandler, a center who rebounds and contests shots. Don't tell me the addition of Tyson threw off Amare's ability to play defense.

Explain to me how one full training camp would change the defensive tendencies he's shown throughout his entire career and (presumably) through 9 previous full training camps.

Reminder: players don't generally become better defensive players as they get older.

Being a willing fan of a possible Amare for Dwight trade is one thing, but creating a thread (and supporting a thread) which states "Amare must go" was out right pathetic. How quickly some of these "fans" forgot which player not only turned our franchise around, led us to the playoffs, but also came here during a time where our team and franchise was considered to be a laughing stock joke... All because of two off nights.

Pathetic.

Feel free to revel in the glory of the one that led us to a 1st round sweep. Assuming fans want to see this team legitimately compete for a championship, I don't see why people are satisfied with Amare at the 4.

Reminder: The Wizards are the laughing stock of the league but it's not like anyone is taking the Knicks seriously as a title contender or playoff threat other than Knick fans.

[can o peas]

sorry, I'm not with this thread.

[albert]

If amare becomes a solid 20/10 guy he is worth every penny.

No no no! You are so unbelievably wrong!

This is pretty much the entire reason for the thread.

1) We have a short window of opportunity to make some noise in the playoffs with Melo in his prime.
2) We haven't done a good job of building a team that can compete for a championship.

I don't think anyone can refute these two points.

My (apparently radical) idea is that we take our fatally flawed player at the 4 and trade him in for pieces that we can surround appropriately around the rest of our players so we can contend. We can be that Boston Celtic-type resurgence with Melo and Tyson leading the way and a group of guys buying into an offensive and defensive scheme. I sincerely do not believe the same can happen with Amare here. He is the odd man out.

[Mr Knick]

Albert,
It is a toss up between you or Isiah Thomas? On who would make a worse GM for the New York Knicks.

[knicksosmoove]

in pure basketball terms, it would definitely make sense to move amare for players who would be better fits.

but we're most likely keeping him.

[ibraheim718]

20lbs of new muscle? Damn... I swear that dude has just as much love if not more for lifting weights than basketball. He should stay out of the weight room for the rest of the year... all that extra muscle will turn a jump shot sour in no time and contribute to stiff movement.

[dantian]

20lbs of new muscle? Damn... I swear that dude has just as much love if not more for lifting weights than basketball. He should stay out of the weight room for the rest of the year... all that extra muscle will turn a jump shot sour in no time and contribute to stiff movement.

true that! this explains his bad jumpers so far this season.

[garrick]

Yes trade Stat for David Lee.

[xsaberx]

Amare is learning a new position and a new role. This will undoubtedly take some time. He is learning to play defense essentially for the first time - he is having to cover a wide variety of player types (stretch fours - and then point guards in our (Please Use More Appropriate Word) switching system). He actually has to learn to play as the power forward with chandler and then assume the center position when chandler is on the bench. He can become a competent defender once her really gets the system - I expect this to happen by April.

Amare does look different this year - he is much bigger - more bulky. Watching him in the last game vs the bobs was interesting, he had more of a dwight/shaq (not dwight and shaq - but more like them) type of impact - people couldn't contain him under the basket and thus he was fouled over and over. Players usually have a hard time with their jumper when their muscle mass changes drastically, but they typically adjust. I think amare has the most being asked of him because there are so many new areas in which he has to engage - but I do expect amare to attack every aspect of his game with a vengeance, as he has throughout his career. This guy is one of the most determined relentless players in the NBA, and this is in large part why he has been so good. I think we should all relax and give him time.

If some crazy trade scenario pops up, like dwight is offered straight up for amare, then of course you take it, otherwise let things settle and come into balance with this team for once.

[Thorn]

why would anyone want amare?

great question. maybe he'll bring in some revenue.

he IS a good player if you have the right cast around him. you need a good pg and good shooters and you're fine.

but you're not winning a championship with him.

Really? So now STAT is a liability? You could NEVER win a ring with him on your team?

I see.

[blumatic]

People think its so easy to build an NBA team. "TRADE AMARE!!!" They say. Get D12. I think fans need ti realize that we have flawed stars on this team. But they are stars nonetheless. Their mere presence on a team makes them better. We missed out on Lebron and Wade and Bosh. As great as they are, they are not perfect either (can't hit a big jumpshot when it matters. Lost to Warriors last night. Same team that beat us). Did we overpay Amar'e? Probably. But that 100 million wasn't just a pay check to a player, it was an investment for our championship. It was an investment to put this franchise where it rightfully belongs. It already has paid dividends in the form of Carmelo Anthony, Tyson Chandler, and Baron Davis. There may be more players to come. STAT wants to be better he is always talking to to Tyson. Tyson a man with no all-star credentials no billboards of his face around. But Amare listens and every game there's an improvement. Amare will never be a shutdown defender. But neither is Paul Pierce or Ray Allen. But they bought in. STAT is buying in. But hey it will take time.

Did we over pay Amar'e? Maybe. But I think the price was right for the team that we have now and will become. Kevin Love would not transform this team the way STAT did.

[makeitstop]

People think its so easy to build an NBA team. "TRADE AMARE!!!" They say. Get D12. I think fans need ti realize that we have flawed stars on this team. But they are stars nonetheless. Their mere presence on a team makes them better. We missed out on Lebron and Wade and Bosh. As great as they are, they are not perfect either (can't hit a big jumpshot when it matters. Lost to Warriors last night. Same team that beat us). Did we overpay Amar'e? Probably. But that 100 million wasn't just a pay check to a player, it was an investment for our championship. It was an investment to put this franchise where it rightfully belongs. It already has paid dividends in the form of Carmelo Anthony, Tyson Chandler, and Baron Davis. There may be more players to come. STAT wants to be better he is always talking to to Tyson. Tyson a man with no all-star credentials no billboards of his face around. But Amare listens and every game there's an improvement. Amare will never be a shutdown defender. But neither is Paul Pierce or Ray Allen. But they bought in. STAT is buying in. But hey it will take time.

Did we over pay Amar'e? Maybe. But I think the price was right for the team that we have now and will become. Kevin Love would not transform this team the way STAT did.

Good post, Ballboy. Well said.

[Ray Den]

I'm personally ashamed seeing this thread as a Knick fan.

[knicksosmoove]

why would anyone want amare?

great question. maybe he'll bring in some revenue.

he IS a good player if you have the right cast around him. you need a good pg and good shooters and you're fine.

but you're not winning a championship with him.

Really? So now STAT is a liability? You could NEVER win a ring with him on your team?

I see.

i am not an amare hater. i will root for him to succeed while he is on this team, but he is a problematic player. he is a power forward who plays really bad defense, is not much of a passer, and has no post game. look back at the championship bigs of the last decade. dirk, pau, kg, duncan, shaq, rasheed. they're all different but the same. they all have very good post games. they all can play defense. all of them except rasheed are exceptional passers. amare doesn't fit that mold. maybe if he can improve the defense to the point where he is not a liability and can get in more of a passing mind set, he can be good enough for us. that will take a concerted effort out of him to change though. the post game is a lost cause but i guess we could live with him facing up close to the basket and being a strong presence in the paint.

he and carmelo are an odd pairing. their games do not naturally feed off each other. i mean, carmelo is a half court player and amare is running player, that's how different they are. it's very hard for me to see how they're going to make their games blend. it's going to take some bending out of them and a lot of creativity out of the coach to make it happen. amare can't be the 27ppg amare he was last season when playing next to carmelo. it's impossible. he is going to have to defer a lot and get way fewer points for the sake of the team. hopefully he is willing to do that.

[Mr Knick]

I'm personally ashamed seeing this thread as a Knick fan.

+1

[Nutty Nats Fan]

Ouch, only 10 games in to the season, but so far Amare has been even worse than I thought.

82games.com

Per 100 possessions, Knicks score 6.8 MORE points when Amare is on the bench. The defense gives up 5.1 LESS points when he is on the bench. That means the Knicks are -11.8 PPG worse when he is on the on the court so far this year.

All the stats showing his effect on the team and game so far are bad. That could change of course.

Melo's are OFF the charts.

Opposing SF's have a 7.7 PER when he is in at SF!

Stats are pretty much all in his favor. Shows the huge difference in the team when Melo is only in the game compared to when Amare only is in the game.

[albert]

I am bumping this thread so you guys can vent in one place as opposed to making topics that are guaranteed to get locked.

FWIW, we weren't in this Memphis game for long at all and Amare tends to struggle against physical players like Marc Gasol, Brandon Bass, etc so I don't have anything against Amare for tonight.

Flame on.

[NJ_YANKEE_45]

All you're going to do is continue to bump this piece of **** everytime he has a bad game or even makes a bad player. Loser

[BasedGuard]

Amare has sucked ever since Melo came man

I don't know what's wrong with him, totally different player from the first half of last season