TI: Bogut for Horford Poll (Time to move on Herb?)

Post #1 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:07 pm

Let's just take a poll on this. I want to see if the die hard fan base here would do this deal.

Bogut for Horford. Even up. No other pieces added. Under the new BYC rules, this trade works as is.

Make the trade on Monday night assuming Bogut comes back to play against Philly.

Obviously we'd like another piece added but let's just assume this is the best we could do.

Do you make the move?

Vote but also add your post commentary since sometimes we get people from other boards voting to skew the totals.

nikip43 · Post #2 » by **nikip43** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:20 pm

5 years 60 million. Horford's deal was a steal when he signed his extension and will continue to be a very manageable contract for an all star.

Badgerlander · Post #3 » by **Badgerlander** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:20 pm

But we have Leuer?

LISTEN2JAZZ · Post #4 » by **LISTEN2JAZZ** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:24 pm

I honestly think Bogut is better than Horford on absolute terms, and even more valuable because he's a true center (making him legitimately top 3-5 at his position). I also love how Bogut has embraced Milwaukee with Squad 6 and all the rest.

Still, I do the deal. Horford's younger, nearly as good a player, and we get a great shot at a top 5 pick.

If I had my way, I'd flip Horford on draft night for a second top 10 pick, but I realize this is Herb Kohl's world, not mine.

Not sure if Hawks do this trade.

Chapter29 · Post #5 » by **Chapter29** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 3:35 pm

I would probably do this and voted trade. I also don't mind our team when healthy....just we are getting a bit behind already and that isn't good in this compressed season.

Does Atlanta do this? Honestly Bogut might be the better player but his injury history makes this a risk. Odd saying that when Horford is the one that's currently injured. A big factor has to be their win now situation. They are a good team and with Bogut they could be very good.

Could we get more? Could we unload Gooden or get a pick back too? Doubt it. I can live without seeing Bogut....not sure I can take a full season of Gooden starting though.

worthlessBucks · Post #6 » by **worthlessBucks** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:28 pm

Would prefer to deal Bogut for picks.

WiscoKing13 · Post #7 » by **WiscoKing13** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:33 pm

worthlessBucks wrote:Would prefer to deal Bogut for picks.

big +1, if we are dealing bogut we are rebuilding and not making another lateral move

MadBlueEdwards · Post #8 » by **MadBlueEdwards** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:40 pm

Voted yes, but I too would prefer draft picks for him.

BUCKnation · Post #9 » by **BUCKnation** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:08 pm

Im not sure what picks we could get for him, but if you trade for horford, it would be like going into next year with the ROY (considering horford puts up all star numbers) plus another potentially top 5 guy.

Post #10 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:11 pm

WiscoKing13 wrote:big +1, if we are dealing bogut we are rebuilding and not making another lateral move

Not a lateral move IMO.

This team gets a top five pick without Bogut. And you dump Jackson, Delfino, etc for picks.

I'd gladly take a core of Horford, Andre Drummond (or Lamb, etc), Jennings, Leuer, Harris, Sanders and another 2012 first somewhere in the 15-30 range. Plus if you dump Jackson and one other guy like Udrih or Gooden, we'd have cap space as well.

We can rebuild in 18-months and have growing team very quickly with this move.

MikeIsGood · Post #11 » by **MikeIsGood** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:24 pm

This is a total no-brainer to me. This has the potential to serve as a true one-year rebuild. Bogut is better than Horford, but Horford is younger and has been more healthy throughout his career. Add Horford to this exact group next year, minus Bogut, and I think we're in about the same spot we are now. But in that process, you also add a top draft pick, and develop all of your young players in the process by giving them major minutes this year (that is a tenet of this trade, to me). Flip Jackson to a contender after this deal, too.

Would I rather turn Bogut into picks and have multiple shots at the top of the draft this year? Well sure, but I see this as unrealistic as is. Bogut for picks is slim leaving town.

smauss · Post #12 » by **smauss** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:32 pm

adamcz wrote:I honestly think Bogut is better than Horford on absolute terms, and even more valuable because he's a true center (making him legitimately top 3-5 at his position). I also love how Bogut has embraced Milwaukee with Squad 6 and all the rest.

Still, I do the deal. Horford's younger, nearly as good a player, and we get a great shot at a top 5 pick.

pretty much my opinion as well. I voted "Yes" but not for the reason mentioned in the poll question.

worthlessBucks · Post #13 » by **worthlessBucks** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:35 pm

I did vote yes BTW, just would prefer the picks option. I still champion my Celtics deal. :/

Swan Vox · Post #14 » by **Swan Vox** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:51 pm

Big YES vote for me on this one. This is the type of out-of-the box move that a small market franchise needs to make if they want a short, but effective rebuild. Even though Horford is injured at the moment, he's averaged 76.5 games played per year the last four seasons. This injury year is hopefully an anomaly for him, where as Bogut has consistently proven he is not someone you can rely on...whatever the reason.

Even 85% of Bogut's production (it's debatable that Horford might even offer equal production) over a full season is more valuable than relying on a guy and constantly getting burned.

Adding in the fact that you get a Top 10 pick, while young players like Leuer and Harris get more minutes and this has the potential to be a home-run type of move.

Run with this next year:

Jennings / Udrih
(No.1)/ Delfino or Delfino / Dunleavy
Harris / Moute
Horford / Leuer
Free Agent / Sanders or (No. 1) / Sanders

Get it done, Herb.

*ETA: Throw Livingston in there wherever, I think he fits in as a valuable role player type.

RiotPunch · Post #15 » by **RiotPunch** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:58 pm

Jennings/Davis or Barnes or Drummond or Lamb/Horford would be a very nice and quick revamp. My fear is that ATL believes Horford is the better player and despite their win-now efforts, would decline.

JustinCredible · Post #16 » by **JustinCredible** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:58 pm

Bogut is our best player....period. What is our record this year when he doesn't play? Horford is a better offensive player no question, but Bogut is the best defensive player in the NBA.

It isn't a terrible idea because of the rebuild option, but the potential roster listed for next year doesn't look any better than our current roster.

We looked amazing the last two games with Bogut. I say keep our best player.

Swan Vox · Post #17 » by **Swan Vox** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:59 pm

Honestly, the choice here is between:

Bogut, Pick 12-16

or

Horford, Pick 3-7 (or better)

I take option 2 easily.

JustinCredible · Post #18 » by **JustinCredible** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:59 pm

Now, if we can find a way to get Horford without giving up Jennings or Bogut then I would be interested. I'd give up our 1st next year and a combination of players for that.

Jennings, Bogut, and Horford would be better than any rebuild option.

RiotPunch · Post #19 » by **RiotPunch** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:05 pm

JustinCredible wrote:Bogut is the best defensive player in the NBA.

He is really good, but that is a bit of a stretch.

JustinCredible wrote:the potential roster listed for next year doesn't look any better than our current roster.

Really? You want a Jennings / Jackson / Bogut core over a Jennings / Horford duo plus one of Anthony Davis, Harrison Barnes, Andre Drummond or Jeremy Lamb?

Post #20 » by **paulpressey25** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:06 pm

JustinCredible wrote:Now, if we can find a way to get Horford without giving up Jennings or Bogut then I would be interested.

Nothing personal in this commentary, but you are thinking like Herb Kohl.

You absolutely don't want to chance losing that nickel in your pocket. Even though it won't buy you anything.

Would you trade Bogut for Horford right now-even up?