Heat can not win a championship with this style of defense

[Pimpwerx]

And James Jones should really play more.

I find it funny that anyone would ask for more JJ in a thread complaining about the defense. Want to see a single man bring down out defense? Look no further than James Jones. Ole Defense redefined. It's one of the main reasons I was hoping we wouldn't re-sign him. I'd rather lean on Rio, Shane and Miller since they all add more than the one dimension JJ has. Outside of hitting 3s, JJ is only good at taking charges. And he's so out of position this season that he's not even able to take those this year. PEACE.

[CrossOver]

The Heat currently rank 6th in the NBA in defensive efficiency. Per 100 possessions per game the Heat are allowing 96.3 pts. Only teams that have performed better are PHI, CHI, IND, LAL, ATL. The only bad trend that has been different from last year is the fact that Miami is allowing way too many free throw attempts (27.5 a game, 3rd worse).

[CablexDeadpool]

The Heat currently rank 6th in the NBA in defensive efficiency. Per 100 possessions per game the Heat are allowing 96.3 pts. Only teams that have performed better are PHI, CHI, IND, LAL, ATL. The only bad trend that has been different from last year is the fact that Miami is allowing way too many free throw attempts (27.5 a game, 3rd worse).

The stats don't matter when it comes to the Miami Defense because they always gonna be statistically good because they trap so much and deny the paint.

What I am saying, that it's works because it's intimidating, not because it's actually a good scheme.

Teams can chuck the 3, you notice how teams with proper depth play the Heat, they spread out the court and just play along the perimeter when it's crunch time and they rain 3s.

All teams do against the Heat in crunch time is rain 3s and the Heat don't have the offensive firepower to keep up. Then the go on defense and pack the paint or play zone and the Heat don't got the offensive talent to beat a team that is getting almost a guaranteed open 3.

So it doesn't matter if the opposing team go 14 for 40 from 3, if half of those made 3s are in the 4th, it's game over.

GSW didn't even shoot a good percentage from 3 against the Heat, they just made them at the right time and the Heat looked dumbfounded.

And teams gonna miss wide open jumpshots, but after a couple of them, they are going in. Teams are gonna get blocked against the Heat, and gonna get stripped, but all that don't matter if the Heat gives them wide open shots.

[CrossOver]

That doesn't make any logical sense. The stats do matter because they aren't allowing teams to score efficiently. 20 points are currently coming off free throws for the Heat opponent. That's the problem. Giving up a ton of three pointers isn't the biggest problem. It's the least efficient shot in the game. The funny part in this all is if the Heat didn't crap all over themselves in terms of their own free throws the GS and Clipper games are victories. Caron Butler and Dorrel Wright were draining three's in guys faces those nights. They were terrible shots that went in. If Wade and LeBron takes those kind of shots, people would be going ballistic over how dumb it would be to take those.

[Heat_team02]

The style of defense we have is a good one however >Pat Riley needs to have some " no help man to man" & shifting zone defense incorporated where everyone guards one spot of the floor then on the next zone, another part of the floor to mix it up. Also want to see some half & full court traps every other play and the bigger bodies like Pittman, Curry and Gladness must be utilized to stretch the defense, shot contesting & filling in the paint.

[CrossOver]

Also, overreacting like this after the 12 game of the season is terrible. It's as if most Heat fans ignored what happened last season. The hyper analyzing of the regular season was quickly put to rest once the playoffs began. Their job isn't to win the regular season, it's to win the NBA Finals. There will be nights where the defense isn't up to par to what we expect from them, same goes for the offense but it isn't right in assuming that's the same way it will go in a playoff series when we saw just last year that all our worries from the slow start last year and the 5 game losing streak were evaporated quickly by the first three series in the playoffs. So don't go around saying things like "This defense can't win a championship" when the same scheme was two quarters away from taking the Finals. If there is one thing you want to pick apart that goes back to the Finals last year, it's the fact that the Heat's offense needs to be more efficient in the 4th quarter.

[DefenseWins]

I'm pretty sure teams hitting those wide open 3's in the 4th has something to do with their losses. Them not making any shots makes it worse.

I guess hope for the best if the Heat go to the Finals, they don't go up against a 3 point shooting team?

[CablexDeadpool]

Also, overreacting like this after the 12 game of the season is terrible. It's as if most Heat fans ignored what happened last season. The hyper analyzing of the regular season was quickly put to rest once the playoffs began. Their job isn't to win the regular season, it's to win the NBA Finals. There will be nights where the defense isn't up to par to what we expect from them, same goes for the offense but it isn't right in assuming that's the same way it will go in a playoff series when we saw just last year that all our worries from the slow start last year and the 5 game losing streak were evaporated quickly by the first three series in the playoffs. So don't go around saying things like "This defense can't win a championship" when the same scheme was two quarters away from taking the Finals. If there is one thing you want to pick apart that goes back to the Finals last year, it's the fact that the Heat's offense needs to be more efficient in the 4th quarter.

The same scheme made them lose

And yeah if they even make the Finals again, and if they go against OKC... it's gonna be 3's all day.

Just like what happened against the Mavs when them open 3 point shots started falling who won? Did the Heat win, was it really the defense that was making the Mavs miss open shots?

And the offense is fine, it puts up enough points to win games, if you putting up 100 points a game and you can't win then you just don't deserve to win a game at all.

No team in the NBA idc if they had a prime Shaq and MJ, can beat a team who is getting wide open 3 point shots and they are falling.

How is the defense good when it gives up open shots? That's not defense. It doesn't matter how statistically good it is because the Heat force a lot of turnovers due to how they play but so does GSW, if you watch a game and count how many open 3s are given up then you realize how bad it is.

Next time the Heat play a 3 point shooting team I'm gonna count every single open 3.

and you are right the regular season doesn't matter, but what happened in the playoffs after they couldn't make 30 ft 3 point jumpshots, they played just like they played in the regular season .

And everybody was like omg, "I thought we solved that", no they didn't. Habits are made during the regular season, they elevated their game just to get to the Finals and they went back to the way they were.

They are a bully team that once they get punched in the mouth they ain't that good. So the Heat can punk all these other teams but they meet a team that are just as talented as their 3 are as a whole and the Heat are gonna be getting their ass handed to them or get a run for their money.

The Heat are a fraudulent team because they just look good, Lebron James and D Wade? With Chris Bosh, OMG Championship. Then you watch them play until the fourth quarter, it's like "Wow". Then fourth quarter hits and you are like "They aren't that good at all once you get over how imposing they are."

And most teams feel that way, they feel like if they can last til the fourth quarter they can win. That's when every time gets so hyped up. The Miami Heat is basically the Achilles of the NBA.

[CablexDeadpool]

That doesn't make any logical sense. The stats do matter because they aren't allowing teams to score efficiently. 20 points are currently coming off free throws for the Heat opponent. That's the problem. Giving up a ton of three pointers isn't the biggest problem. It's the least efficient shot in the game. The funny part in this all is if the Heat didn't crap all over themselves in terms of their own free throws the GS and Clipper games are victories. Caron Butler and Dorrel Wright were draining three's in guys faces those nights. They were terrible shots that went in. If Wade and LeBron takes those kind of shots, people would be going ballistic over how dumb it would be to take those.

Every team drain 3s in the Miami Heat face. It's a given lmao. And no, they should've just kept a damn lead and won the game, it has nothing to do about fts. If FTs after getting a 10 point lead and you couldn't score for 2 mins are supposed to bail you out after giving up 3s, then that's just pathetic.

And I would've still say the Heat played like crap after letting GSW come back and then letting the Clippers style all over them.

Efficiency when it comes to opposing teams scoring don't matter if the Heat can't score. They give up a wide open 3, the 3 goes in, the Heat goes back to offense, the opposing team packs the paint and plays straight up, the Heat shoot midrange jumpshot, it misses, rinse and repeat.

That's how the last 4 minutes of the 4th quarter is and it will probably never change because they will always go back and look at the stats and see that they forced a team to shoot 40 percent from the field and so the defense is technically good.

But no it's not, defense is also offense, meaning if you outscore your opponent and you stop them for scoring you therefore you defended your lead = winning the game. Heat can't stop teams from scoring in the 4th, they can terrorize anyone for 2 quarters and a half but it's not scary anymore. Teams get used to it, okay you gonna trap me, so I just pass to the open man and he'll shoot the 3. You gonna rotate I'll drive and kick to the open man for the practice midrange jumpshot. That's how teams feel about the Heat.

1st year, it was scary, after the MAvs straight up exposed the Heat and pulled their pants down and the whole NBA saw that the Heat aren't that scary, teams know how to beat the Heat.


And a 3 and a lay up is the most efficient shots in the game, because most of the time a 3 is wide open in transition or on a kickout, and a lay up is something anyone can do on a fast break and etc.

The most inefficient shot is a midrange jumpshot, because most of the time it's off the dribble and someone in your face. Most teams want to force midrange shots.


That's what teams make the Heat do down the stretch, the make them shoot the midrange shot. So the Heat either need to put actual 3 point shooters in the game, like James Jones, or they need to change their defense to fit the situation.

Up by 10 with 4 minutes to go, no reason to trap the perimeter. Duh.

[CablexDeadpool]

That doesn't make any logical sense. The stats do matter because they aren't allowing teams to score efficiently. 20 points are currently coming off free throws for the Heat opponent. That's the problem. Giving up a ton of three pointers isn't the biggest problem. It's the least efficient shot in the game. The funny part in this all is if the Heat didn't crap all over themselves in terms of their own free throws the GS and Clipper games are victories. Caron Butler and Dorrel Wright were draining three's in guys faces those nights. They were terrible shots that went in. If Wade and LeBron takes those kind of shots, people would be going ballistic over how dumb it would be to take those.

Every team drain 3s in the Miami Heat face. It's a given lmao. And no, they should've just kept a damn lead and won the game, it has nothing to do about fts.

And I would've still say the Heat played like crap after letting GSW come back and then letting the Clippers style all over them.

Efficiency when it comes to opposing teams scoring don't matter if the Heat can't score. They give up a wide open 3, the 3 goes in, the Heat goes back to offense, the opposing team packs the paint and plays straight up, the Heat shoot midrange jumpshot, it misses, rinse and repeat.

That's how the last 4 minutes of the 4th quarter is and it will probably never change because they will always go back and look at the stats and see that they forced a team to shoot 40 percent from the field and so the defense is technically good.

But no it's not, defense is also offense, meaning if you outscore your opponent and you stop them for scoring you therefore you defended your lead = winning the game. Heat can't stop teams from scoring in the 4th, they can terrorize anyone for 2 quarters and a half but it's not scary anymore. Teams get used to it, okay you gonna trap me, so I just pass to the open man and he'll shoot the 3. You gonna rotate I'll drive and kick to the open man for the practice midrange jumpshot. That's how teams feel about the Heat.

1st year, it was scary, after the MAvs straight up exposed the Heat and pulled their pants down and the whole NBA saw that the Heat aren't that scary, teams know how to beat the Heat.


And a 3 and a lay up is the most efficient shots in the game, because most of the time a 3 is wide open in transition or on a kickout, and a lay up is something anyone can do on a fast break and etc.

The most inefficient shot is a midrange jumpshot, because most of the time it's off the dribble and someone in your face. Most teams want to force midrange shots.


That's what teams make the Heat do down the stretch, the make them shoot the midrange shot. So the Heat either need to put actual 3 point shooters in the game, like James Jones, or they need to change their defense to fit the situation.

Up by 10 with 4 minutes to go, no reason to trap the perimeter. Duh.

[EscapoTHB]

The only reason they are OPEN 3s is because of effort and dumb rotations. That's not a systemic thing. That's a players are out of shape and not making the right rotations on defense thing. Our defensive system is to give up the 3, but it's not to give up a wide open 3. Ideally we are contesting everything.

Right now guys aren't on a string, and you are right, there are times where they are helping on defense when they don't need to. That's not a defensive style though. Those are bad habits, and it's up to Spo and the crew to fix them.

Offensively we've become a little stagnant because Wade has been struggling since he came back from the injury, Haslem is missing open looks in his sweet spot, and Bosh has been a little inconsistent. The overall movement on offense is good, guys just need to hit the shots they have always hit over the course of their careers.

Plus we're still adjusting to the new up tempo system. Guys aren't in shape yet to keep running in the fourth. That should change. When you get tired, your jumpers start missing. Which is what I think is happening to us in the fourth quarter these last several games. Think we're still getting into the shape we need to be in to play the high octane speed game we want to play.

[EscapoTHB]

1st year, it was scary, after the MAvs straight up exposed the Heat and pulled their pants down and the whole NBA saw that the Heat aren't that scary, teams know how to beat the Heat.

We would have won that series in five if Lebron hadn't gone MIA. That's the long and the short of that. He was historically off of his average. If he had JUST hit his average in those games, we would have won easily. We can't win championships against the best teams with Lebron being a witness on the court. And that's the only real factor to think about. It sucks because it is the one thing you can't really fix with a system. Or know how it's going to work until you get there.

[epics2002]

Also, overreacting like this after the 12 game of the season is terrible. It's as if most Heat fans ignored what happened last season.

Dewayne Wade wasn't hobbled last year. It is different.

[CrossOver]

Also, overreacting like this after the 12 game of the season is terrible. It's as if most Heat fans ignored what happened last season.

Dewayne Wade wasn't hobbled last year. It is different.

It isn't different, Wade was hurt through the course of the season last year as well. So was LeBron and Bosh. It's ignorant and dumb to be showing this type of concern 12 games into the season. But forget it, it isn't worth giving logical points to refute "perceptions" by emotional fans right now. I'll sit back an enjoy the ride to the playoffs when the games really start.

[Miamis3rdRing]

The thing that annoys me about giving up the 3's is when we play solid defense for 20+ seconds, only to have the other team hit a wide open 3 right before the shot clock goes off. That sort of stuff can break players.

[fishfuego.]

The problem I see with Spo, is that his coaching style is too predictable.

The current defensive scheme is not bad in stretches, but NBA teams WILL adjust and sooner or later that wide open 3 WILL fall, specially in crunch time. Or do people think that these professional players are professionals because they just learned their craft lol. They live for such opportunities and they WILL make that damn shot. It is a shame that Spo lacks such common sense.
Same damn defense, same damn players and rotations, same damn offense ALL GAME LONG..where the hell is the human factor that will let a player be hot one night and another player on another night?

In conclusion, I think Spo coaches scared. IMO he seems affraid of trying the new for fear of failing.
And for a team on a win now mode, a veteran proven coach IS NEEDED, because a veteran proven coach has seen all the adjustments and knows how to counter, and to me Spo is a work in progress, who may or may never get it.

[EscapoTHB]

You want predictable in the regular season though. You're trying to build good habits. Get guys accustomed to a role.

And last season in the playoffs Spo showed he was willing to make huge in-game adjustments, as well as lineup changes from game-to-game.

I think we're pretty fortunate to have a coach like Spo. There's not really anyone out there who could coach this team better right now. Especially with Phil Jackson not in the coaching game.

There's not a great coach in the game that is making desperation moves with their team this early in the season unless they managed to lose ALL of the games.

We're doing better than last year

[epics2002]

Also, overreacting like this after the 12 game of the season is terrible. It's as if most Heat fans ignored what happened last season.

Dewayne Wade wasn't hobbled last year. It is different.

It isn't different, Wade was hurt through the course of the season last year as well. So was LeBron and Bosh. It's ignorant and dumb to be showing this type of concern 12 games into the season. But forget it, it isn't worth giving logical points to refute "perceptions" by emotional fans right now. I'll sit back an enjoy the ride to the playoffs when the games really start.

Ok, then explain to me over past week Wade has said "I think I have planar fasciitis and a few days later has the worst sprain of his career? I think hes knows hes not going to be superstar wade in the nearterm and setting up excuses.

Yes, Wade missed some time last year, but he wasn't nearly as hobbled with three injuries in parallel as this year. This is also a compressed season, the heat had 5 days at least 2x last year and no 5 games in 6 nights for a depth starved team outside of the big 3, especially if one is very hurt. There isn't time to recover and Wade doesn't like it sit out.

[CablexDeadpool]

The only reason they are OPEN 3s is because of effort and dumb rotations. That's not a systemic thing. That's a players are out of shape and not making the right rotations on defense thing. Our defensive system is to give up the 3, but it's not to give up a wide open 3. Ideally we are contesting everything.

Right now guys aren't on a string, and you are right, there are times where they are helping on defense when they don't need to. That's not a defensive style though. Those are bad habits, and it's up to Spo and the crew to fix them.

Offensively we've become a little stagnant because Wade has been struggling since he came back from the injury, Haslem is missing open looks in his sweet spot, and Bosh has been a little inconsistent. The overall movement on offense is good, guys just need to hit the shots they have always hit over the course of their careers.

Plus we're still adjusting to the new up tempo system. Guys aren't in shape yet to keep running in the fourth. That should change. When you get tired, your jumpers start missing. Which is what I think is happening to us in the fourth quarter these last several games. Think we're still getting into the shape we need to be in to play the high octane speed game we want to play.

Their help defense is style of play, it is a system thing because the Heat are the only team that plays like that all game. The point is to apply pressure and intimidation to force turnovers. That's just the way they play and the rotations are fine, you just not gonna beat the ball all the time.

And the offense is fine. I have no problems with the offense or even free throws. Crap happens. They still get around to 100 points a game, that's enough points to beat anybody. Defense is the issue.