Should the jays trade Bautista for pitching?

[BobbyBoy]

With the additions the Yankees made, the way the rays are and how good Boston could be if they put it together, the jays dont look good. So the question is, should the bluejays trade Jose bautista for pitching. Do you think the bluejays could land a guy like kershaw or someone like Matt Cain or even better.
Feel free to leave trade suggestions.

[RaptorKenny]

It's understandable that any player is trade-able,
(IE: Noone on the jays side will reject a Jose for Lincecum + Cain deal, assuming Sabean believes in the 2012 doomsday theory and offer us that deal)
However, without Jose our offence will be close to the bottom of the league, and that doesn't really give us any chance of winning games.
So it is possible that Jose will be traded, but it does not make any sense for the Jays to trade Jose for pitching. Our pitching rotation now is average, but a great rotation without a operating offence will not be able to win too many games.

[Parataxis]

IF the Jays trade Bautista (and they won't. Trading him would be a blow to their bottom line.) they should be trading him for prospects and young players - not a win now pitcher.

[flatjacket1]

IF the Jays trade Bautista (and they won't. Trading him would be a blow to their bottom line.) they should be trading him for prospects and young players - not a win now pitcher.

Agreed. IF he gets traded it has to be for players who's timelines line up with our current players.

[Raps in 4]

We should trade him for prospects. We're obviously not going anywhere in the foreseeable future.

[UN-Owen]

Bautista to Atlanta for Tommy Hanson and Jason Heyward

We'd have to add some sweetner, of course

Do the Braves need a 41 year old lefty specialist for their pen?

[distracted]

No.

[Al_Oliver]

Bautista to Atlanta for Tommy Hanson and Jason Heyward

We'd have to add some sweetner, of course

Do the Braves need a 41 year old lefty specialist for their pen?

are you kidding? they would need to send us way more...

[UN-Owen]

Bautista to Atlanta for Tommy Hanson and Jason Heyward

We'd have to add some sweetner, of course

Do the Braves need a 41 year old lefty specialist for their pen?

are you kidding? they would need to send us way more...

Hanson and Heyward are as good as Romero and Lawrie


AA would be all over Hanson/Heyward for Bautista if it were offered

[sonn]

Sure if Felix Hernandez was coming the other way.

[augustine]

Sadly, Bautista for two stud prospects makes sense. I really wish someone would ask AA this question as the logical extension of his slow and steady philosophy is to trade Bautista now. There would be an uproar if Bautista were traded, so they wont do it. Trading Bautista simply reveals AA's philosophy to the public too nakedly for AA to consider doing it.

[Lateral Quicks]

Why would you trade your best player when the team is on the cusp of sustainable contention? Especially when that player is locked up for 4 more years at below market rates. The Jays would have to be knocked of their feet by an offer to even consider it.

If it were a 70 win team with no hope of contention, sure. But it's probably a ~85 win team now, with lots of room for organic improvement in the near future.

[satyr9]

No.

[LBJSeizedMyID]

Sadly, Bautista for two stud prospects makes sense. I really wish someone would ask AA this question as the logical extension of his slow and steady philosophy is to trade Bautista now. There would be an uproar if Bautista were traded, so they wont do it. Trading Bautista simply reveals AA's philosophy to the public too nakedly for AA to consider doing it.

What are you babbling about?

[BobbyBoy]

Also, we should keep in mind that Jose is 32. So I don't see us contending until he's like 34-35 and in his lower part of his prime. So if we can get Hanson and heyward, I would do it.

[Al_Oliver]

Bautista to Atlanta for Tommy Hanson and Jason Heyward

We'd have to add some sweetner, of course

Do the Braves need a 41 year old lefty specialist for their pen?

are you kidding? they would need to send us way more...

Hanson and Heyward are as good as Romero and Lawrie


AA would be all over Hanson/Heyward for Bautista if it were offered

Bautista has had 2 outstanding seasons in a row and is on a team friendly contract. Heyward has a world of potential.

[augustine]

What are you babbling about?

I'm not sure what part of my statement you disagree with, or do not understand, as your response lacks informative content. But, my point is fairly simple: AA's plan is to grow organically. By growing organically we will not be contenders for two-four years (ie., if we are banking on Gose, Hutch, D'Arnaud, Hech, Alvarez to be major league elites, this will not happen for years). In two-four years, Jose will be diminishing and his contract will be expiring. If Jose is diminishing by the time we will be contenders, we may as well trade him now for players that fit our timeframe. Thus, on AA's plan, we may as well trade Jose now.

Now, many fans think we are in a win-now, 2012 is the year mode. By this reasoning we should keep Bautista. But, we are not in a win-now, 2012 is the year mode. (Perhaps you think we have a chance this year. If so, I cannot help you that much, other than to say that every team ahead of the Jays has stayed the same or improved (in some cases drastically) while the Jays have not tangibly improved. So, it stands to reason that those who were in front of the Jays last year will remain in front of the Jays this year.) Now, AA wants the crowds to keep coming, so he doesn't want people to know that we aren't really in a win now mode, so he doesn't trade Jose.

So, the clearest and most authentic extension of AA's stated strategy would be to trade Jose, but he wont do that because he wants the fans to keep coming and thinking we may win this year, even though he knows full well that is not the plan. This is the situation I was explaining.

Which part is still not clear for you?

[augustine]

Why would you trade your best player when the team is on the cusp of sustainable contention? Especially when that player is locked up for 4 more years at below market rates. The Jays would have to be knocked of their feet by an offer to even consider it.

If it were a 70 win team with no hope of contention, sure. But it's probably a ~85 win team now, with lots of room for organic improvement in the near future.

This off season has made it clear that AA's timeline is not 2012-2013. AA has repeatedly not signed players that were available and that would help with a 2012-2013 timeline. Moreover, AA has repeatedly not traded minor league assets for players who could help win now (do you really think Toronto couldn't have offered more for Darvish, Pineda or Gonzalez or ...). So, I reject your premise that we are on the cusp of sustainable contention. If we are not on the cusp of sustainable contention, then it makes sense to trade your elite 32 year old for a couple of 25 year olds.

This is an 81 win team right now. That is last years number. We need to pick up ten games to even be in the hunt. We have added one key piece (Santos). Meanwhile every team ahead of the Jays has stayed the same or made improvements, so there is no reason to suspect the Jays will compete. Yes, the Jays have the ability for organic growth, but every team has the capability for organic growth. That is not a strategy to build a contender on. Yes, the Jays could compete if everything falls in place, but most teams can compete if everything falls into place. That isn't a good strategy either

[LBJSeizedMyID]

I am in the camp that we have a team that can compete, but also realize that AA is in the peculiar spot of not knowing exactly where our team stands. Guys like Snider/Lind/Hill didn't exactly step up this year like was expected. So AA traded for Rasmus and Johnson, thinking they'd be clear upgrades on paper which wasn't necessarily the case. Had Rasmus and Johnson turned their seasons around once they came to the Jays, I actually think we would've seen a lot more moves.

So he goes into this season with a lot of question marks, however these question marks are potential wild cards for rebound/big seasons. He improved the team without actually blocking these guys, giving them a clear shot at rebounding. The Jays ranked in the top 10 in homeruns and RBI's the past couple years, while their bullpen last year was atrocious from the eighth inning and later (hence the Oliver/Frasor/Santos acqusisitions) which was where the bulk of their money was spent on this offseason.

The only one I question is Adam Lind, who he must know something we don't (injury?) as I think most fans kind of know what he is. Grant it he was looking like a great candidate to rebound over the first half, but something happened during the second half. Still, if you look at his hitting charts, there wasn't many places you could beat him with a pitch as he actually made better contact then I thought (biggest weakness was low and outside).

We're about to enter year three since AA has taken over. I usually give GM's five years (except for basketball) to see what their plan is. While there are GM's who baffle you with what the moves they make, I see why AA is doing or not doing these moves. I get it that its frustrating to the casual fans, but give the man some time to do his job.

If he were to go all in this year, sure the casual fans will show up. But what if the Jays end up in the same position third/fourth in the AL? Do you actually think these fans would continue going to games? No, the first thing they'll do is abandon ship because in reality if you're not a Leafs fan, most people that goto games just want to be seen. They'd be the first to jump off the wagon which would effectively lead to another painfully slow rebuild or patch jobs which tend not to work (ie. JP Riccardi).

[UN-Owen]

Granted, not "grant it"