Arbitration and payroll update

[Strav]

we dont even know if we're a good team at 80m, we can easily be a average to horrible team at 80m, then with fielder we will be a average to good or very good team...we gotta wait til we a good team before we spend 100m to be a great team or 120m+ to be elite

We have a lot of question marks on our team, I'll give you that. But to pass up on talent like a Prince Fielder would be stupid. Especially when your biggest competitors (Yanks and Sox) have no need for such a talent or are even bothering going for such a talent.

I think its safe to say that Prince Fielder batting behind Jose Bautista will make us better then average. Us as Jays fans have waited way too long for an opportunity for a player like this and a dreamed scenario like this to pass it up.

Fielder's numbers do speak for themselves, and you'd have to think that this guy would have been swooned over by the entire league because of them. However we know that's not the case because he's still a FA. The knock on him is obviously his weight, and making him play half the season on hard turf would be even more of a concern. I trust AA's judgement on this one. The Jays make up going into this season is good, and perhaps just a tad short of great if Lawrie repeats his season, and Lind, Morrow and Rasmus get it together.

[phillipmike]

People NEED to accept the fact that off-season activity does not equal success. And spending money does not equal success.

The Boston Red Sox are the key example adding the best two players to switch teams in the off-season in Gonzalez and Crawford to their already playoff team. They signed them to the two biggest deals in the 2011 off-season too. They missed the playoffs. Look what they and the Yankees are doing now. They are taking their young players and farm talent to add to their roster - something the Jays are aiming to do.

The St. Louis Cardinals made zero big name acquisitions in the off-season and a few trades in season at the deadline and made the playoffs and won the WS. Add Tampa to this list.

[Fairview4Life]

People NEED to accept the fact that off-season activity does not equal success. And spending money does not equal success.

The Boston Red Sox are the key example adding the best two players to switch teams in the off-season in Gonzalez and Crawford to their already playoff team. They signed them to the two biggest deals in the 2011 off-season too. They missed the playoffs. Look what they and the Yankees are doing now. They are taking their young players and farm talent to add to their roster - something the Jays are aiming to do.

The St. Louis Cardinals made zero big name acquisitions in the off-season and a few trades in season at the deadline and made the playoffs and won the WS. Add Tampa to this list.

Spending money on an excellent offensive player to replace Adam Lind in the lineup at a time when the Jays currently have arguably the best hitter in baseball with little to no protection behind him and don't have to bid against a bunch of notoriously heavy spenders, more than likely equals success, though.

[phillipmike]

People NEED to accept the fact that off-season activity does not equal success. And spending money does not equal success.

The Boston Red Sox are the key example adding the best two players to switch teams in the off-season in Gonzalez and Crawford to their already playoff team. They signed them to the two biggest deals in the 2011 off-season too. They missed the playoffs. Look what they and the Yankees are doing now. They are taking their young players and farm talent to add to their roster - something the Jays are aiming to do.

The St. Louis Cardinals made zero big name acquisitions in the off-season and a few trades in season at the deadline and made the playoffs and won the WS. Add Tampa to this list.

Spending money on an excellent offensive player to replace Adam Lind in the lineup at a time when the Jays currently have arguably the best hitter in baseball with little to no protection behind him and don't have to bid against a bunch of notoriously heavy spenders, more than likely equals success, though.

He has not signed yet but there is a market value for him and AA probably has determined that the market value is too much and doesnt make sense for where the team is. Signing Fielder to a 5 year deal probably makes sense but that does not look like it is going to happen. Every team has limited financial resources and signing Fielder will probably help BUT their is no guarantee. If does then that is great as that is what he was supposed to do. But if he doesnt then that is a 25M mistake per year and those type of mistakes prevents the GM from gaining more resources to make his team better. If Lind fails then so be it; what is it a 8M mistake. The point is to maximize your success and minimize your mistakes.

AA is smart to not point most of his eggs in one basket. A Fielder signing is too risky and it appears most GMs feel the same.

Sure signing Fielder increases your chances but nothing is guaranteed so it does not make sense to make such a risky move when it isnt guaranteed. I would love to have Fielder but not at the price and term he wants or the market tells him he should get.

Is Fielder's production worth roughly 20M more than Adam Lind's (making 5M in 2012), i dont think so.

[Parataxis]

If does then that is great as that is what he was supposed to do. But if he doesnt then that is a 25M mistake per year and those type of mistakes prevents the GM from gaining more resources to make his team better. If Lind fails then so be it; what is it a 8M mistake. The point is to maximize your success and minimize your mistakes.

Do you know what else prevents GMs from gaining resources to make the team better? Failing to use available money to bring better resources (ie: players) to the team.

AA is smart to not point most of his eggs in one basket. A Fielder signing is too risky and it appears most GMs feel the same.

Fielder is not putting all of the teams eggs into one basket. We could sign Fielder, and sign another player next year and still have money to spend (remember, Beeston said we could have a payroll of 120-140 million). Not signing Fielder, and hoping a quality FA (or Votto) just falls into our laps - now THAT'S putting all of our eggs into one future basket.

[Secueritae]

Hmm look there's a gold mine over there -->
We could spend $20m a year on mining to possibly make more revenue off of consumers (fans)
and possibly control the gold market (AL East)

But Nah I think we'd rather stick with our $80m farm and crops even if there is low/no potential of that market getting any better.

[Fairview4Life]

I prefer the free boat to the mystery box.

[CapeCrusader]

In words Rogers will understand...

They love to make money! Sometimes you need to spend money to make money.

Make this happen!

[Parataxis]

I prefer the free boat to the mystery box.

But Fielder is just Fielder. The mystery future FA could be ANYBODY! Even somebody as good as Fielder!!!

[Randle McMurphy]

Is Fielder's production worth roughly 20M more than Adam Lind's (making 5M in 2012), i dont think so.

Yes. Perhaps you don't realize just how bad Adam Lind has been for the last two seasons. He's provided negative value.

[Randle McMurphy]

75mil - not too shabby.

So we're giving Rogers credit now for getting the payroll to a level that's 20M below the MLB average? Is that what it's come to?

Who cares how much the payroll is? Honestly, do you want a bad team with a 100 mill payroll or a good at a 80 mill payroll? All that matters is if we can win, not our payroll.

Except payroll is directly correlated with winning games. The more you spend, the more you generally win.

If the Jays spent more money on talented players, they'd be more likely to win games and make the playoffs.

[Homer Jay]

So we're giving Rogers credit now for getting the payroll to a level that's 20M below the MLB average? Is that what it's come to?

Who cares how much the payroll is? Honestly, do you want a bad team with a 100 mill payroll or a good at a 80 mill payroll? All that matters is if we can win, not our payroll.

Except payroll is directly correlated with winning games. The more you spend, the more you generally win.

If the Jays spent more money on talented players, they'd be more likely to win games and make the playoffs.

Unless you are the White Sox. Spending money on the right players is important too.

[Secueritae]

Unless you are the White Sox. Spending money on the right players is important too.

Besides how long can we live on prospects? A good amount will not amount to anything, and sure some might become good but what's to say they won't leave us for the market, or us end up overpaying them anyways?

The last key prospects that hit their ceiling for us were Rios and Wells, and how did that turn up? They quickly deteriorated after receiving their big payday

When you get a chance to obtain a proven player (i.e. Fielder) I think you should go for it instead of Always rolling the dice on prospects and different factors that might not end up our way anyways.

[dagger]

Is Fielder's production worth roughly 20M more than Adam Lind's (making 5M in 2012), i dont think so.

Yes. Perhaps you don't realize just how bad Adam Lind has been for the last two seasons. He's provided negative value.

When you consider Lind hit below .200 after the all-star break, I don't understand how he was allowed to bat higher than eighth.

[Randle McMurphy]

Is Fielder's production worth roughly 20M more than Adam Lind's (making 5M in 2012), i dont think so.

Yes. Perhaps you don't realize just how bad Adam Lind has been for the last two seasons. He's provided negative value.

When you consider Lind hit below .200 after the all-star break, I don't understand how he was allowed to bat higher than eighth.

Reputation, whether it's deserved or not. That's largely how lineup decisions are made at the MLB level. Remember that Kevin Millar was actually batting cleanup for this team a while back despite being a very poor hitter.