Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

[TJ Quik]

Right now he's a defensive game changer, but if you've ever watched any of his high school tape, he definitely has moves that he isn't allowed to use in the Kentucky offense.

It's also not like he isn't scoring on that team -- he's averaging 14 points per game on absolutely ridiculous efficiency and has a mind-bending PER of 36.

I take big man scoring in the college and high school ranks with a major grain of salt. He had moves over midgets in high school. In college he's super efficient because he is physically superior. IMHO, he will have trouble scoring at a high clip efficiently in the NBA. I think 15ppg at high efficiency is his ceiling int he NBA.

[Rhettmatic]

Dr. Mufasa, you think that Davis' ceiling offensively is Amir? I think that's underselling him quite a bit.

Amir has been in the NBA for 6+ seasons and has yet to crack 10 PPG.

The idea that Anthony Davis will only be as good as him offensively is lunacy.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

I continue to be mystified by the confidence in Barnes' scoring floor at the next level.

Barnes is the smoothest scorer of the group. He's going to be a lock to be a 20+ point a night scorer at the next level.

Firstly, if you're talking smooth it's Lamb and then the rest. Secondly, how many locks to score 20 have we ever had? And you're right, Barnes has no physical edge other than size at SF in college, and even there he couldn't get 20 shots on his own. Ford is still a clueless weenie.

Dr. Mufasa, you think that Davis' ceiling offensively is Amir? I think that's underselling him quite a bit.

Agree here, AD already has far better ball skills, a decent stroke and is generally more fluid. I think he'll be an offensive factor though likely not a force, and that's more to do with mentality. And he doesn't fall down much.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Dr. Mufasa, you think that Davis' ceiling offensively is Amir? I think that's underselling him quite a bit.

He definitely looks more like a defensive game changer while being a #3 option on offence at best, similar to JV. If you are rolling with Davis and JV in your frontcourt, you better have 2 elite scorers at the guard/wing positions (and we currently don't have any)....

IF we were to luck out and pick Davis, you absolutely have to throw the bank at Westbrook or Williams or even Eric Gordon. All restricted free agents, who you would need to probably max out for their teams not to match. Obviously, it's overpaying, but if your front court will be offensively challenged you have to take drastic measures to be able to have the elite defense.

[Fairview4Life]

Valanciunas and Davis won't be offensively challenged. They will be highly efficient scorers. They will be challenged at hitting 3's, which you'd need your wings to do instead.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Valanciunas and Davis won't be offensively challenged. They will be highly efficient scorers. They will be challenged at hitting 3's, which you'd need your wings to do instead.

You misunderstood offensively challenged. These are not going to be guys that you dump the ball into and let them go to work ala Tim Duncan or even Andrew Bynum. They'll get a high percentage of their offense through put-backs and drop offs.

[fredericklove]

If Deron forgoes an extension, and we did happen to luck into Davis, I think the organization could put together a convincing presentation that Deron would be a fool not to consider. we have max money to offer, plus more (after amnestying Jose) to add quality veteran wings. with Davis and Valanciunas joining Amir and Bargnani, we would suddenly have an elite big man rotation for Casey and Deron to work with. it's a hell of a lot better than what Brooklyn will be able to offer, when it comes to talent anyways.

Deron: Dwight just joined the New Jersey off-season, aw boo. Oh! We got the 3rd pick in the draft. Jeremy Lamb is on the team too...aw boo. I'm staying in nets. Sorry T Dot!

[SkywalkerAC]

If Deron forgoes an extension, and we did happen to luck into Davis, I think the organization could put together a convincing presentation that Deron would be a fool not to consider. we have max money to offer, plus more (after amnestying Jose) to add quality veteran wings. with Davis and Valanciunas joining Amir and Bargnani, we would suddenly have an elite big man rotation for Casey and Deron to work with. it's a hell of a lot better than what Brooklyn will be able to offer, when it comes to talent anyways.

Deron: Dwight just joined the New Jersey off-season, aw boo. Oh! We got the 3rd pick in the draft. Jeremy Lamb is on the team too...aw boo. I'm staying in nets. Sorry T Dot!

Does New Jersey have the space to sign Deron and Dwight in the summer? If not, what kind of trade package can they put together?

No Dwight, suddenly the Nets situation looks pretty atrocious.

[FluLikeSymptoms]

If Deron forgoes an extension, and we did happen to luck into Davis, I think the organization could put together a convincing presentation that Deron would be a fool not to consider. we have max money to offer, plus more (after amnestying Jose) to add quality veteran wings. with Davis and Valanciunas joining Amir and Bargnani, we would suddenly have an elite big man rotation for Casey and Deron to work with. it's a hell of a lot better than what Brooklyn will be able to offer, when it comes to talent anyways.

Deron: Dwight just joined the New Jersey off-season, aw boo. Oh! We got the 3rd pick in the draft. Jeremy Lamb is on the team too...aw boo. I'm staying in nets. Sorry T Dot!

Does New Jersey have the space to sign Deron and Dwight in the summer? If not, what kind of trade package can they put together?

No Dwight, suddenly the Nets situation looks pretty atrocious.

Disagree. If Dwight wants to play for Prokhorov, then New Jersey will still have money to sign him, keep Deron and now, thanks to the tank, they'll have a high pick to trade(they kept their own)in addition to Houston's protected and Brook Lopez. NJ will look better, they could easily get a big 3.

[fredericklove]

Anybody still prefer Drummond over Davis...?

1 or 2 posters, and Steely. Pretty much everyone else prefer Davis

Davis is 5th in the poll, behind Drummond

He's 2nd now bro, you mad?

[Alfred]

Valanciunas and Davis won't be offensively challenged. They will be highly efficient scorers. They will be challenged at hitting 3's, which you'd need your wings to do instead.

You misunderstood offensively challenged. These are not going to be guys that you dump the ball into and let them go to work ala Tim Duncan or even Andrew Bynum. They'll get a high percentage of their offense through put-backs and drop offs.

I think that Davis is going to be much more skilled on the offensive end than just getting put backs and lobs. He can handle the ball and move fluidly, meaning he has a real chance at developing a face-up game.

[fredericklove]

Dr. Mufasa, you think that Davis' ceiling offensively is Amir? I think that's underselling him quite a bit.

Amir has been in the NBA for 6+ seasons and has yet to crack 10 PPG.

The idea that Anthony Davis will only be as good as him offensively is lunacy.

It's no surprise for him to make such a lunatic statement because after all, he's the only one here that claims Leonard as the next all star and undisputed 3rd pick

I think Davis' physical skills are far ahead and light years ahead of Amir. Athleticism, Quickness, long arms, offensive awareness, insane motor and the blow by ability. These physical skills alone are already putting him in place for offensive production. He's raw right now offensively, when his offensive skillset improves, he'd be very scary offensive and defensively.

[Dr Positivity]

I think Davis' offensive "upside" is certainly higher than Amir's. He's a taller and longer and has the reputation of more skills than he's showing, though all the clips I saw of him in high school made him look like the same guy he is now (maybe he was just a flat out bad guard before his growth spurt).

But atm if you say pick and rolls and putbacks, good hands around the basket, slight frame and little individual go to creation, that sounds a ton like Amir. Or Tyson Chandler if Davis plays C (I think Chandler is a better version of Amir offensively)

To me the isn't used much excuse is a little weak, because I think if that was true he'd still have 1 or 2 plays out of 10 where he flashes that KG like guard skill and does something on the perimeter. I haven't seen a single guard like outside play from him (I didn't see last night though) all year and his FT% is a good sign of whether a guy can shoot, even if he's not trying. He looks like he's going to absolutely nothing in the post in the NBA. I don't think his physical talent gives him any more easy points than Amir gets. Davis is a good athlete but not that good. In the same way Derozan was a good athlete but not that good.

I have Davis as #1 on the big board and would love the idea of building a twin towers of defensive shotblocking, but I'm not buying that he's this epic prospect just because he seems like an average offensive talent. There's nothing wrong with that because defensive bigs are that valuable, but it seems to me like he's such a good defensive prospect that people like Ford are going to overstate how much he can learn offensively just to make him look like more of a star. I can already see the Davis is swishing 20 footers in workouts and looks like KG on the perimeter, Kentucky didn't use his ability, he's a lock for 20/10/3 in the NBA! ESPN article.

I just don't see guys who look like average offensive talents breaking that ceiling often. Most of the time they're showing go to moves at this stage if it's going to translate. Derrick Favors is a great recent example of a guy who had the physical talent to kill it in defense and rebounding but didn't appear to have much going for him offensively compared to Cousins and Monroe and that's pretty much how its gone so far in their careers. I suppose it's entirely possible A Davis has a huge development curve offensively, but I would say *don't count on it* any more than like, assuming PJIII is going to become a high end defender or Drummond is going to start wanting to post up. In all those cases I think you have to appeal to most likely scenario and not an outlier %

[Marlo Stanfield]

Valanciunas and Davis won't be offensively challenged. They will be highly efficient scorers. They will be challenged at hitting 3's, which you'd need your wings to do instead.

You misunderstood offensively challenged. These are not going to be guys that you dump the ball into and let them go to work ala Tim Duncan or even Andrew Bynum. They'll get a high percentage of their offense through put-backs and drop offs.

I think that Davis is going to be much more skilled on the offensive end than just getting put backs and lobs. He can handle the ball and move fluidly, meaning he has a real chance at developing a face-up game.

I could definitely see him developing a nice little 17 foot jumper with some drive-by ability. But I don't see him becoming a 25ppg guy.

[fredericklove]

Who has access to espn insider? Can someone kindly help me recap the espn draft section articles "Split Decision (PJ3 & T-Robinson)" and "Wanted: Point Guards". Much appreciated.

[fredericklove]

I could definitely see him developing a nice little 17 foot jumper with some drive-by ability. But I don't see him becoming a 25ppg guy.

I say he's close to 17-18 ppg guy with ceiling of a 20 point scorer. 25 ppg is too difficult to reach if you don't have an advanced big man inside and out game. Even Amare or Bosh with their offensive caliber type only had one or two 25 ppg season, Amare's peaked offensive numbers were inflated by Nash and Bosh's 24 points season pretty much happened because no one else could score other than him and Bargs. Also I don't expect him to turn into KG caliber type. But 17-18 ppg is reachable if he has a developed jumper (like u said), improved baby hooks, and using his quickness to drive to the bucket consistently.

What makes him 1st pick worthy is his potential to change the game defensively, we're all hoping to see him avg 11 reb and 2+ blocks per game

[Rhettmatic]

Who has access to espn insider? Can someone kindly help me recap the espn draft section articles "Split Decision (PJ3 & T-Robinson)" and "Wanted: Point Guards". Much appreciated.

Sure.

Robinson vs. Jones
- Most NBA decision-makers have been reluctant to consider Robinson at the top of the draft - until now
- GM quoted as saying he was skeptical about Robinson being "the kind of guy who can turn a franchise around," didn't think he could handle double teams or being the focal point on offence, but he's gotten better, more disciplined, more skilled (esp. with footwork in post), and his leadership ability is better
- Fordie thinks that Robinson's determination, work ethic, etc. will help him succeed, but Jones is a bigger risk
- A GM says he loves Jones, but is skeptical that he can be taught to play like Robinson does, and doubts that he ever will.
- Still, a poll of a half-dozen GMs still had them taking Jones, Barnes or Drummond ahead of Robinson due to his height. But they'd all "seriously consider him" with the No. 2 pick now.

Point guards
- Brace yourself for a point-guard famine this year
- Only Tony Wroten looks like a sure thing for the first round but even he's not a lock (GMs don't like his decision-making, shooting or leadership skills)
- Damian Lillard is rising up the boards, but teams are "struggling to get their arms around him" - he hasn't dominated top competition and scouts question whether he can be an NBA point guard
- Kendall Marshall might be the best pure passer in the league, but his lack of a shot and athleticism is a drawback
- Marquis Teague and Myck Kabongo have both struggled to run their teams, and Teague especially has scared off scouts

[dTox]

Valanciunas and Davis won't be offensively challenged. They will be highly efficient scorers. They will be challenged at hitting 3's, which you'd need your wings to do instead.

You misunderstood offensively challenged. These are not going to be guys that you dump the ball into and let them go to work ala Tim Duncan or even Andrew Bynum. They'll get a high percentage of their offense through put-backs and drop offs.

I think that Davis is going to be much more skilled on the offensive end than just getting put backs and lobs. He can handle the ball and move fluidly, meaning he has a real chance at developing a face-up game.

Not to mention he's extremely quick and can blow by most PF's in this league similar to bosh, his shot isn't all that shabby either along with what you've mentioned. Kentucky is stacked offensively and have 3 potential top 10 picks as well as Teague on their lineup, so its normal to see Davis not scoring as high as other former #1 draft picks.

[Saciid11]

If we got the #1 overall pick, I'd look to move it (and AD) rather than Bargs. Call me crazy, but I think Bargs is a better fit beside Val due to his scoring and his girth.

Davis and the #1 pick would have more value as well, and could be the building block of a deal for Westbrook or DWill (extension would have to be included).

I don't care if Bargnani puts up 30ppg, I would trade him, ED Davis if we get the number #1 and draft Anthony Davis. You don't worry about fit, especially team like Raps who need franchise changing player.. Davis is that type of player on the defensive end alone and add that to another high energy defensive minded big in Val ... and you one of the best front court in the league. If scoring is problem you can always find wing player that does what Bargnani does and more in more efficient way ... but defensive big that plays with high energy and with allot of potential... that is hard to find.


C- Val /Free Agent/ Alabi
PF- Anthony Davis / Amir Johnson/ free Agent
SF- Stephen Jacksson/James Johnsson/( Jeff Taylor or Lebron Nash or Adonis Thomas )/Klieza
SG- Derozen /Austin River or Brad Beal/
PG- Brandon Jenning/Calderon/

1. Trade
Bargnani + Bayless for Brandon Jenning + Stephen Jacksson

2. Trade


Ed Davis for another lottery pick draft Shooting guard Austin River or Brad Beal ..

2nd round BPA hope Jeff Taylor or Lebron Nash or Adonis Thomas are there

[fredericklove]

Naw bro. If we win 1st pick. We draft D23. Trade Bargnani or Ed with other asset at this draft for another late pick. Draft Kabongo. Get Wilson Chandler this summer. In the RFA market next summer, let Demar go, throw money at Harden (this guy needs his own team, he can't be a star as long as KD and Frog boy are in OKC). Let our lineup develop and in 2013-14, we have a mature, developed lineup of 2 dynamic bigs, all around SF, a go-to-scorer SG, and a pass-first pg. All 5 are capable of playing real good D. Damn man, ain't that sweet?

C- Val
PF - D23
SF - Chandler
SG - Harden
PG - Kabongo.

That's a 2nd round contender, bro.