Dwight in the Atlanta offense

[baseline33]

i was watching an Orlando game and i just started thinking, that the Magic don't properly use Dwight.

Dwight has amazing athleticism and should be able to run the floor, but it seems like the Magic play a very slow pace game and Dwight doesn't get any fast break point, unlike what Horford, Smoove, and Noah do.

i can understand a guy like Ewing, a great center but who can't run, playing a slow pace game, but for a guy like Dwight, wouldn't you try to assemble an offense that stresses on getting fast break points , especially with his rebounding and defense, like how the Hawks and Bulls stress defense and running.

also, Drew loves to run a motion offense. wouldn't Dwight benefit more from a motion offense then what the Magic are doing now, which an offense that tries to replicate what Ewing and Hakeem did, which is spacing and 3pt shooting?

having a center that can run is kinda rare, wouldn't it be better to exploit that and run something similar to what they ran with Amare in PHX and Griffin in LA.

[MaceCase]

How are you expecting him to run and rebound the ball at the same time? He's not THAT fast where he can secure the rebound, get it out to a guard and then beat a whole team to the rim even though that already is a predominant part of his offense where he sprints to get deep position on opposing bigs.

Dwight running a motion offense effectively is a dubious notion too because he is a reaaaaaally bad passer, the whole 4 out 1 in offense is predicated on giving him adequate spacing so he can make easy passes out of doubles/zones and he's struggled in that too. Van Gundy installed that offense when he arrived and it's led to both the greatest personal success for Dwight and the Magic, where they've failed continuously is to find a Robin perimeter shot creating player for him with guys like Gil, Hedo and Vince being their choices.

[baseline33]

How are you expecting him to run and rebound the ball at the same time? He's not THAT fast where he can secure the rebound, get it out to a guard and then beat a whole team to the rim even though that already is a predominant part of his offense where he sprints to get deep position on opposing bigs.

Dwight running a motion offense effectively is a dubious notion too because he is a reaaaaaally bad passer, the whole 4 out 1 in offense is predicated on giving him adequate spacing so he can make easy passes out of doubles/zones and he's struggled in that too. Van Gundy installed that offense when he arrived and it's led to both the greatest personal success for Dwight and the Magic, where they've failed continuously is to find a Robin perimeter shot creating player for him with guys like Gil, Hedo and Vince being their choices.

for god sakes, Horford and Noah do it all the time

[Ruhiel]

How are you expecting him to run and rebound the ball at the same time? He's not THAT fast where he can secure the rebound, get it out to a guard and then beat a whole team to the rim even though that already is a predominant part of his offense where he sprints to get deep position on opposing bigs.

for god sakes, Horford and Noah do it all the time

and Josh Smith too. All a lot of people see is the finish. Not how the play develops.

Horford, Josh Smith and Noah all grab the ball and don't wait for outlets because it breaks the press faster. Smith from time to time has a weak halfcourt game so this is one of his advantages as a 4 when he gets the ball.

You got to stop the ball. Hard to do when a "big" pushes the ball.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3gh-R_RVW4[/youtube]

That play you talk about never develops if Dwight passes to Jameer. Kaman gets to run back if he outlets.

Some people say Al Horford is not a center, well he plays one in real life. And our center is probably our second best guy leading the fast break. Sure, that fact has a depressing quality to it, but it is also great. (Like the fact that Hawks almost led the league in giving away free tickets last year.) Of all the centers in the league, I can remember seeing two still in the league push the pace off a rebound. Shaquille O'Neal and Horford. With Shaq, it was a bit of a novelty. With Horford, it is relief. Every time Horford grabs a board and starts dribbling, there is this non verbal "enough is enough." This "I weigh 245 pounds and play the five so I am going to force you to take advantage thing" spoken in every dribble. Do you want to see it every time? No. But Horford has the skill and smarts to catch the other team off guard, and while a Shaq might lead the break for the television camera every once in a while, he certainly does not run one down for them. And more often than not that means, with the second or third pass of the break, we get some of reason number 70 to cheer about. - peachtreehoops

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9YCgT3sQPg[/youtube]

Al Horford rebounds under the rim, no outlet and Josh Smith was Guarding Durant so he gets a headstart running . Coast to Coast
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hwL04QDuCE

Josh Smith rebounds under the rim, no outlet and Horford was at the top of the key. no outlet = A coast to coast athletic Dawg speed attack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fqDCaUpW_o


I feel bad for Dwight because he can break the press, he has the skill to play that point-forward, point-center but who's gonna run and finish with him? Turkoglu? Jameer? Redick? Big Baby?

They would fade and spot up for 3s, in which case you might as well run the halfcourt sets.

[MaceCase]

How are you expecting him to run and rebound the ball at the same time? He's not THAT fast where he can secure the rebound, get it out to a guard and then beat a whole team to the rim even though that already is a predominant part of his offense where he sprints to get deep position on opposing bigs.

Dwight running a motion offense effectively is a dubious notion too because he is a reaaaaaally bad passer, the whole 4 out 1 in offense is predicated on giving him adequate spacing so he can make easy passes out of doubles/zones and he's struggled in that too. Van Gundy installed that offense when he arrived and it's led to both the greatest personal success for Dwight and the Magic, where they've failed continuously is to find a Robin perimeter shot creating player for him with guys like Gil, Hedo and Vince being their choices.

for god sakes, Horford and Noah do it all the time

So you want Dwight dribbling the ball coast to coast? Fair enough.

[ATL Boy]

I was watching the end of the Orlando game and man they really don't use Dwight to his full affect like they should. At the end of OT Orlando was down by 2 with the ball and shot clock off, and instead of going into Dwight who was dominating the Spurs big men all game they went for a 3, I thought to myself if they keep doing that all year in the clutch we can easily overtake Orlando even without Al.

[MaceCase]

I was watching the end of the Orlando game and man they really don't use Dwight to his full affect like they should. At the end of OT Orlando was down by 2 with the ball and shot clock off, and instead of going into Dwight who was dominating the Spurs big men all game they went for a 3, I thought to myself if they keep doing that all year in the clutch we can easily overtake Orlando even without Al.

Is that really shocking to you? How often do teams throw the ball to any bigs down two with a few seconds left yet alone one shooting 45% from the line? The opposing team wants you to do that, commit an easy foul and watch the guy who's used to bricking most of his shots sweat bullets knowing that if he bricks yet another one his team loses, the Hack a Shaq was/is effective strategy for a reason.

[baseline33]

How are you expecting him to run and rebound the ball at the same time? He's not THAT fast where he can secure the rebound, get it out to a guard and then beat a whole team to the rim even though that already is a predominant part of his offense where he sprints to get deep position on opposing bigs.

Dwight running a motion offense effectively is a dubious notion too because he is a reaaaaaally bad passer, the whole 4 out 1 in offense is predicated on giving him adequate spacing so he can make easy passes out of doubles/zones and he's struggled in that too. Van Gundy installed that offense when he arrived and it's led to both the greatest personal success for Dwight and the Magic, where they've failed continuously is to find a Robin perimeter shot creating player for him with guys like Gil, Hedo and Vince being their choices.

for god sakes, Horford and Noah do it all the time

So you want Dwight dribbling the ball coast to coast? Fair enough.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3gh-R_RVW4[/youtube]

or do the Zaza, play at 0:45... with Smoove throwing up dimes to a running Dwight.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nESlOFBZe8s[/youtube]

[Ruhiel]

Brandon Bass is gone.
the Zaza at :45? That's from Josh Smith running the break...

For Dwight that means Big Baby or Ryan Andersen, rebounding the ball and pushing the pace, reading the play and making a know look pass.

Or Hedo playing the 4 and crashing boards? idk

[MaceCase]

Oh no! The dreaded youtube argument! Silly me, I forget all 260 pound centers can dribble like Allen Iverson.

[baseline33]

Brandon Bass is gone.
the Zaza at :45? That's from Josh Smith running the break...

For Dwight that means Big Baby or Ryan Andersen, rebounding the ball and pushing the pace, reading the play and making a know look pass.

Or Hedo playing the 4 and crashing boards? idk

this is a thread that talks about how if Dwight joined the Hawks and how much better he would fit into the offense ..... "Dwight in the Atlanta offense"

[Ruhiel]

I thought this was a thread about Orlando running a different offense.

But the point about Dwight running is correct. But to run you have to get the ball. Dwight would benefit from playing next to an Okafor type who can get the rebound and pass to a guard. Dwight takes off running. Daniel Orton still injured but that's what they were looking for in him. Either that or as a backup.

But you'd need to get shooters for the halfcourt and the other center would have to be so big to draw Cs defense and force PFs to guard Dwight.
They tried with Gortat but it did not force PFs onto Dwight and fast breaks/rebounds to let D12 run weren't really there.


After the 2nd center you'd need competent/elite SG and SF for shot creation. Then a good PG would do. Easier said than accomplished.

[baseline33]

I thought this was a thread about Orlando running a different offense.

But the point about Dwight running is correct. But to run you have to get the ball. Dwight would benefit from playing next to an Okafor type who can get the rebound and pass to a guard. Dwight takes off running. Daniel Orton still injured but that's what they were looking for in him. Either that or as a backup.

But you'd need to get shooters for the halfcourt and the other center would have to be so big to draw Cs defense and force PFs to guard Dwight.
They tried with Gortat but it did not force PFs onto Dwight and fast breaks/rebounds to let D12 run weren't really there.


After the 2nd center you'd need competent/elite SG and SF for shot creation. Then a good PG would do. Easier said than accomplished.

this couldn't be more wrong.

the key to getting an effective fast break, especially for a big like Dwight, is to have a PF who has handles, who can grab a rebound and push the ball to mid court and make the right pass, a PF like Odom or what Shawn Marion did in PHX, or what Noah did last year, or what Camby did in Denver, or what KG use to do, or what Smoove and Horford can do.