Every Team Hits A Rough Stretch.Doesnt Mean Trade the Team

Siem · Post #1 » by **Siem** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:10 pm

If some1 already posted a topic like this I apologize I didnt see it...Believe me as a fellow Knick fan I am as frustrated as any1 with Amare's and Melo's play...The Knicks play in General, let me not just single out the stars on our team.....With that said it disgusts me how everytime I visit the Board everybody is ready to trade Amare or Melo... We went through over 7years of pitiful basketball, laughingstocks of the leauge. Amare whether it was the money or something more, still took pride and had the guts to come to NY and say we will be relevant again..He proved alot of Knicks fan wrong, dominated, and was having a MVP Caliber season. He suffered a Injury in the Boston series, we get swept..

Coming into this season expectations are high, I understand, but we are 6-8 and now all I see is trade Amare for this guy, Trade Melo for that guy...That is more baffiling to me, then our lack of offense.. There's alot of teams in the league that would love to have our problem at this current time. I would think after having 7years of irrelevance most fans would be able to endure a tough stretch, but all I see is a bunch of trade ideas to get rid of one or both of the star players. Do I expect much more from our players...Ofcourse, Im very dissapointed in what I have seen this season...But some of these trade ideas that get thrown around are just ridicolous. Melo and Amare have been together for not even a entire season yet. and now our pg postion is in disarray so, I'd say give it more time, b4 your ready to get rid of the PF who helped NY become relevant again, or trade the Best Scorer we've had in over a Decade..They have thier Flaws but, so does all of the players that alot of you guys want on the team.

E86 · Post #2 » by **E86** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:24 pm

I wish the Knicks could swap jerseys and facilities with OKC while no one is looking..

Red Vines · Post #3 » by **Red Vines** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:26 pm

We've had a rough stretch for over a decade now. This is just normal.

Post #4 » by **Thugger HBC** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:28 pm

This kind of thread isn't gonna work for the second time in a week.

denterprise · Post #5 » by **denterprise** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:40 pm

No matter how the team is doing there will always be people looking for a trade. These people always view other players as being better than what we have on our roster. When I see trade threads I usually just skip over them and read someting else.

Purdman · Post #6 » by **Purdman** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:58 pm

I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. the Knicks are 6-8. In a long season it is pretty much inevitable that a team will hit a patch where they are a few games under .500. It is far from the end of the world and it is still early enough for these guys to turn it around, figure it out and finish well above .500. Small sample size means a large possibility for unreliable results.

They could turn the corner any day now.

DE FENSE · Post #7 » by **DE FENSE** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:01 pm

WRONG. This is the Knicks board where it means panic, trade everyone, fire everyone, and just generally spread extreme negativity and hopelessness.

makeitstop · Post #8 » by **makeitstop** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:05 pm

DE FENSE wrote:WRONG. This is the Knicks board where it means panic, trade everyone, fire everyone, and just generally spread extreme negativity and hopelessness.

Sad but true. This board is the panic capitol of RGM.

Fat Kat · Post #9 » by **Fat Kat** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:07 pm

DE FENSE wrote:WRONG. This is the Knicks board where it means panic, trade everyone, fire everyone, and just generally spread extreme negativity and hopelessness.

Yep. Gotta love it.

KnickswiththeKnack · Post #10 » by **KnickswiththeKnack** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:12 pm

It's the NBA2k mentality. Trying to get the most players together whose power levels are over 9000. Some people think that all you need is a good trade to solve anything (although to be fair, the site's name IS RealGM.

It's the real world tho. Trading and firing is what got us in this mess in the first place. But folks these days have no patience. I'm frustrated too, but I definitely wouldn't trade any of Amare, Chandler or Melo.

makeitstop · Post #11 » by **makeitstop** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:22 pm

KnickswiththeKnack wrote:It's the NBA2k mentality.

A good bit of spoiled 12 year old mentality in there, too.

KnickswiththeKnack · Post #12 » by **KnickswiththeKnack** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:30 pm

makeitstop wrote:
KnickswiththeKnack wrote:It's the NBA2k mentality.

A good bit of spoiled 12 year old mentality in there, too.

Lol, didn't wanna go there, but... yeah.

jonny31623 · Post #13 » by **jonny31623** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:57 pm

I think the biggest problem this year is that we are not playing to Amare's strength. I agree that trading Amare or Melo is so stupid and it annoys me when "knicks fans" want to trade amare after a few bad weeks. Dude can play, period. No if's and's or's about it. He can play and he proved it last year especially. The problem this year is that we are setting him up to fail.

Amare thrives when he is at the 5 and he has 4 guys that can space the floor and shoot the 3. Thats why he was so great in phoenix playing the 5. When shaq came to phoenix the suns didnt make the playoffs and amare, although he played well didnt play to his full potentional.

Chandler was a good sign for us, because he is making our defense better.

Our biggest problem everyone knows about is our point guard play, and its obvious. When baron comes back we should play much better.

However for the time being, even though dantoni would never even think about this. Why not start amare at the 5, start josh harrelson( who is a gritty defender and can shoot the 3) at the 4 and let tyson come of the bench. Ofcourse still give chandler his 30 mins of playing but this gives amare the ability to start off games in a groove. Get his shot going, pick and roll with melo, blow past other centers with ease. Then we bring chandler in for amare as a sub, and let melo play with chandler like theyve been doing. And from there dantoni can make subs accordingly.

I know its a radical move, and you always have to start your best players, but we have a team that is capable of winning alot of games. We just have to adjust to Amare and Melo's strengths. And thats something dantoni is just not good at.

The notion of trading Amare just because he is struggling even though its not his fault, is complete utter BS. Last year we played to his strength and thats why he was an MVP candidate. This year we aren't and thats why he is struggling. Simple as that.

Post #14 » by **NoLayupRule** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:06 pm

our coach's inability to get anything of substance out of his multiple stars and to raise the level of his role players - minus Jorts and Shumpert - is the main problem

its been long enough for Amare and Melo to have some plays they can run together, to have them playing in the same system - and not a pure isolation system - and for the rest of the guys to be facilitating things

yes, its a lack of training camp and lack of a point guard. But these are excuses that have run dry. Melo and Amare have played several dozen games together and, lockout or not, D'Antoni has had time to devote to figuring out an offense they can thrive in.

I have yet to see a pick and roll with Amare and Melo. I have yet to see Melo work off screens and Amare cutting to the basket for a pass.

All Ive seen is iso plays and a coach handing the team to Melo and asking him to become a star passer, scorer and defender to cover up the lack of team play

Post #15 » by **kane2021** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:02 pm

Amare has gotten a lot of crap lately. There is some reason for it. But to be fair Amare has been known to get off to bad starts. Not just with his game, but mentally. Most recently was 2009 I think. He got off to a similar start.

Im confidant he will get it figured out just like he always has. I think whats going to happen here if at some point the players are going to take it upon themselves to find something that works on the offensive end.

If feels like over the last 3+ seasons its been acceptable to wait. Wait for someone to come in and run the team. We are just in a holding pattern until davis is ready. I personally feel this attitude is coming from the bench.

I think davis will come out with a bang. Get this team looking good up until the AS break. Then fall flat after the pace gets to his 32 year old worn out body. Very similar to every PG who has been through here in the past 4 years. We will struggle again. Taking turns with our identity and what type of team we are.

As the season closes and the playoffs approach, this team will go for self. The players will come together and find another formula to win on their own. Health will be the major concern. I think we can win a first round series and battle in a 2nd round exit if we are healthy just off of player talent alone.

Then its up to the front office to make a move on the coach if he survives the season. I know most feel he gets the year. And I dont want to see a mid season move made. But if for some reason this team continues to struggle after davis is ready, I dont see much choice in the matter. The pressure will be to great to ignore.

We are a very good team. We have holes that will be filled over time. Our poor style of play is clouding perspective. We have seen what this front court can do as a treo when the game is played to their strengths. We were looking great until we decided to experiment with shump as nash.

So when davis is ready, it will be his turn to attempt this role. Once that fails, the players will be given a blank script and total freedom to figure it out. This has been the steady cycle for this team for 3 seasons now. And its repeating itself here in this forth season.

D'antoni talked with the FO yesterday. Nothing on what they talked about, all that was said is that both are concerned. And D'antoni called it a crisis. So its been addressed at some level.

Just have to be patient. Looking back and thinking of what could have been dont work out well. We also looked good before we traded Z-Bo and JC.

The core issue here in my opinion is that its been acceptable to wait while getting poor results. To be more specific, D'antoni has become comfortable with waiting for his play maker. And its been allowed by the FO. Davis is the last go. My greatest fear is in not knowing what the FO is thinking. Are they really confidant in this coach and willing to continue to wait and find this player? Are they willing to give him the year and go after nash to give this guy another chance to prove his philosophy? Or are they ready to go in a new direction?

I want whats best for us. But im really sick of seeing this style of play. And at some point, if its not already happening, the players are going to lose all respect and confidence in the coach.

albert · Post #16 » by **albert** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:07 pm

There's a reason I push for an Amare trade - he's the odd piece out and he's going to hurt us during his time here. Rough stretch or not, we are not competing for a championship with Amare playing this franchise player role.

Are we living in the past glory of Amare leading a .500 ball club? Do we expect to be a legitimate contender as opposed to marginal playoff threat once Amare to turns it around? And Baron Davis will make this all work?

Please.

We can move forward with a Melo/Tyson core - this is our window of opportunity. We're going to blow this opportunity if we continue on this path. We need to surround them with appropriate role players. For some on this board, this perspective is radical and unbecoming. To those I say - we can easily improve by taking away the one piece that doesn't fit and realistically be instantly better as a team.

PG: _____ / Baron Davis
SG: Shump / Bibby or Douglas
SF: Melo / Fields
PF: _____ / Jeffries
C: Chandler / Jorts

Fill in the blanks with decent serviceable players that can play their role. Who wants to say no to that?

Post #17 » by **moocow007** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 11:13 pm

It's nice to have a positive attitude but this argument is kinda silly to be quite blunt. Miami having a rough stretch is different than the Kings having a rought stretch. So you can't say everyone has a rough stretch as an argument for things being ok. Rough stretch has to be relative to who is experiencing it and how likely it is for resolution to come out of it. Miami having a rough stretch (what people have pointed to in other threads as a reason why things aren't bad) doesn't mean as much cause you can tell with the guys they have that they'll figure it out. Sacramento having a rough stretch doesn't hold that same light at the end of the tunnel view. The Knicks? They are obviously not Miami (so again, the Miami went through a tough stretch argument others have brought out means squat) and obviously are not Sacramento. They are somewhere in the middle. Is the light there is what one has to ask. What is the likelihood of them getting out of the roughness one has to ask. There's been teams that have been in a "rough stretch" for years and years. Heck the Knicks have been one of them. So again "the relax everyone has a rough stretch" argument. Just doesn't do it to make things fine.

Siem · Post #18 » by **Siem** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 7:19 am

Well I beg to Differ. For One, We are not the Kings, a young team with players that have to learn how to win, or that have never won in the NBA. We have 2 star players, who may have not won championships but have been in the WCF and made playoff runs for the most part of thier careers. We have a Center Who is coming from a team that just won a championship and he played a major role in that..So stating that my post is quite silly is quite ridicolous if your me..Every1 wants to run and press the panic button 15games into the season. Melo and Amare still have to get use to playing together, aswell as Tyson Chandler being added. No offseason did not help us much...Am I saying that i am satisfied and relaxed with whats going on...No...I'm just not ready to panic and trade our best players.