MIN - NJN

shrink · Post #1 » by **shrink** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:52 pm

MIN GIVES: Webster + Brad Miller
MIN GETS: HOU 1st (lottery protected) + Petro and Farmar + $4.75 mil TPE

NJN GIVES: HOU 1st (lottery protected) + Petro and Farmar
NJN GETS: Webster + Brad Miller

WHY FOR MIN? I started this deal as an attempt to have some negative, 2-year contracts to send DET in a Ben Gordon deal, so this really isn't about adding Petro or Farmar. This is a deal about buying the HOU 1st. We save $2.8 mil this year, but pay $6.3 in extra salary next year, so in effect, we buy the pick for about $3.5 mil. The fact that we get a TPE out of the deal doesn't hurt either.

WHY FOR NJN? This deal provides them with enough cap space to sign Dwight AND keep Brook Lopez. Keeping Deron is completely dependant on getting Dwight. I've read a couple different NJN posters looking for someone to clear some cap space for them. I think this can do it. Also, I could see Webster, when he's back, becoming a pretty decent SF for them. Right now they start Damion Jones, who's shooting FG 37.1% for 4.9 PPG.

jscott · Post #2 » by **jscott** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:09 pm

So, you are saying this is the 1st part in the 2-part deal where we'd ship Petro and Farmar to DET for Gordon?

I don't know. Maybe the value is close but I'm not a huge Ben Gordon (contract) guy and we already have 2-3 1sts next year around this same 14-22 area (UTA [if they don't make the playoffs this year], MEM and our own).

Perhaps Miller and Webster's contracts help us make another deal or maybe Webster and Miller play pretty well and help us win games.

[RCG] · Post #3 » by **[RCG]** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:16 pm

I don't think it is worth it. We won't get the pick conveyed this year and like jscott said we may have 2-3 next year.

shrink · Post #4 » by **shrink** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:17 pm

First, I wanted to get an idea if MIN felt this straight up deal was fair. I didn't want people to get too hung up on the value of Petro or Farmar, who'd be used as salary filler in another deal.

Imagine we get zero production from Petro and Farmar. Do you think financially we spend an appropriate amount to get the HOU prot. 1st?

Foye · Post #5 » by **Foye** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:19 pm

Farmar a negative contract? He played really well last season.

Not this season so far but it'll come. The Nets won't offer a first to dumb him.

jscott · Post #6 » by **jscott** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:19 pm

Yes - I think the value is there.

[RCG] · Post #7 » by **[RCG]** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:30 pm

I guess I just don't see much value in Houston's pick. It is lotto-protected throughout and then turns to a second rounder and cash in 2016 or so. The way I see it they will be a late-lotto team for the forseeable future. Lowry is good but Martin and Scola aren't getting any younger. They have money tied up for this year and next with no clear direction. I'm just not sure we will be seeing it soon or possibly at all.

Saltine · Post #8 » by **Saltine** » Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:35 pm

I'd rather have Webster than Ben Gordon. Gordon plays no D and wasn't impressive against us...

invno1 · Post #9 » by **invno1** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:40 am

Timberwolves clearly need a veteran at this point,,,not so worried about picks.
Giving up 2 vets in this deal go in wrong direction for me.

Krapinsky · Post #10 » by **Krapinsky** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:08 am

I've reached the conclusion that the Wolves should stay put and allow Webster, Ellington, and Johnson to improve. At the end of they year we can decide if we want to keep Beasley and Webster and then I think we just go from there.

Post #11 » by **The J Rocka** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:19 am

This seems like a trade we would've been interested in doing two years ago. We should hold onto our vets and see them perform at full strength.

Post #12 » by **Klomp** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:25 am

Pass. I think Brad Miller will start more games than Darko. He will be a key guy for this team. We are lacking at SG/SF right now, and I've heard our staff is high on Webster as well. Pass.

shrink · Post #13 » by **shrink** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:25 am

Damion Jones, NJN awful starting SF, just went down tonight too.

Martell Webster is clearly, clearly, more valuable to them than us.

I really think if we can turn him into a better trade asset, it would help us down the road.

[RCG] · Post #14 » by **[RCG]** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:42 am

shrink wrote:Damion Jones, NJN awful starting SF, just went down tonight too.

Martell Webster is clearly, clearly, more valuable to them than us.

I really think if we can turn him into a better trade asset, it would help us down the road.

Webster + Miller + Ridnour
for
Morrow + Farmar + Petro + Houston 1st

Foye · Post #15 » by **Foye** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:42 am

Klomp wrote:Pass. I think Brad Miller will start more games than Darko. He will be a key guy for this team. We are lacking at SG/SF right now, and I've heard our staff is high on Webster as well. Pass.

I thought the general opinion was that Brad Miller is done?

Seriously, he offers about as much offensive production as Darko does and is a worse defender. We better not make the mistake of giving him extended minutes. 5 mpg should be the max. honestly.

younggunsmn · Post #16 » by **younggunsmn** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:42 am

Might be awhile before we'd ever see that Houston 1st.
Webster might yet have value here.
Might be something to consider around draft time next summer.
No hurry to do something like this.

Farmar may opt out with his player option next summer and Petro will be easy to move at only 3.5 mil for 2012-13. Would rather trade them an expiring Tolliver for Petro straight up once Lopez is healthy. Can Petro be decent as a Post defender? After Darko we have none.

shrink · Post #17 » by **shrink** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:42 pm

younggunsmn wrote:Might be awhile before we'd ever see that Houston 1st.
Webster might yet have value here.
Might be something to consider around draft time next summer.
No hurry to do something like this.

Farmar may opt out with his player option next summer and Petro will be easy to move at only 3.5 mil for 2012-13. Would rather trade them an expiring Tolliver for Petro straight up once Lopez is healthy. Can Petro be decent as a Post defender? After Darko we have none.

I don't really care if it takes a while before the HOU 1st cashes out, since it'd most likely be used as a trade piece. Webster's still $5.25 mil.

I think NJN would definitely add incentive to a Tolliver for Petro swap. They want expirings, and are probably not picky, because it allows them to guarantee they have cap room for Dwight Howard, make a Brook Lopez offer, and be able to pay Deron. If they can't convince Deron to stay (and that might be almost completely dependant on getting Howard), they will lose their Derrick Favors gamble for nothing. I imagine though they would want to make a move to guarantee the cap space now to show Dwight they can get him to Brooklyn, and moreso do a deal now because of yesterday's injury to their starting SF.

Narf · Post #18 » by **Narf** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:03 pm

To answer the question Shrink, I think the value is right.

Fire Mchale · Post #19 » by **Fire Mchale** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:01 pm

shrink wrote:MIN GIVES: Webster + Brad Miller
MIN GETS: HOU 1st (lottery protected) + Petro and Farmar + $4.75 mil TPE

NJN GIVES: HOU 1st (lottery protected) + Petro and Farmar
NJN GETS: Webster + Brad Miller

WHY FOR MIN? I started this deal as an attempt to have some negative, 2-year contracts to send DET in a Ben Gordon deal, so this really isn't about adding Petro or Farmar. This is a deal about buying the HOU 1st. We save $2.8 mil this year, but pay $6.3 in extra salary next year, so in effect, we buy the pick for about $3.5 mil. The fact that we get a TPE out of the deal doesn't hurt either.

WHY FOR NJN? This deal provides them with enough cap space to sign Dwight AND keep Brook Lopez. Keeping Deron is completely dependant on getting Dwight. I've read a couple different NJN posters looking for someone to clear some cap space for them. I think this can do it. Also, I could see Webster, when he's back, becoming a pretty decent SF for them. Right now they start Damion Jones, who's shooting FG 37.1% for 4.9 PPG.

I think the value is actually a little past fair in terms of what we're really doing for NJ. I think they get more out of this than we do long-term. My biggest issue is that Petro and Farmer are so very 'meh' to me. I realize that we're not exactly giving them Kobe, but we're basically allowing them to clear their books for their own Big 3. Getting a protected first and two players I don't want doesn't do a lot for me. I realize that the premise here was moving Petro and Farmer to a 3rd team so perhaps I could be swayed there - the issue really is the return on that trade, not this one. If that trade resulted in Ben Gordon I wouldn't be happy at all. If that trade resulted in a smaller bad contract and an additional pick, I'd be on board. I'm not sure what the market is for those two players but I have to think there's a late-first in there without having to take on a Josh Childress-esque contract.

Post #20 » by **revprodeji** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:38 pm

I have high hopes for Webster and Porter has been caught speaking highly about Webster and how the staff believes he will be a cure for some of our problems. If we are dealing simply an ending contract, I might give them Johnson or Beasley instead.

But any trade that needs another trade to make sense is just not rational to me. This does not make us better.