Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

Marlo Stanfield · Post #581 » by **Marlo Stanfield** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:26 am

CunningLinguist wrote:
fredericklove wrote:Draft Drummond? Sure, if you want to draft a long term project to set our franchise backward, then go ahead.

If we're serious about acquiring a star player, we have to take a chance on a guy with huge potential at both ends of the floor. It's tough to hit a home run when you're trying to bunt.

That's the only reason you take either Drummond or Jones III. But has a guy who's character has been questioned coming into the league led a team to a title in recent memory?

Post #582 » by **FluLikeSymptoms** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:01 am

One skittlekkake video can follow you around for the rest of your life.

Post #583 » by **DG88** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:21 am

Don't we have our 2nd round pick this year. Unless we use it in a trade we could be getting 3 rookies next year in Val, 1st round lottery pick, and 2nd round pick.

CunningLinguist · Post #584 » by **CunningLinguist** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:38 am

BlackFalcon wrote:
CunningLinguist wrote:
fredericklove wrote:Draft Drummond? Sure, if you want to draft a long term project to set our franchise backward, then go ahead.

If we're serious about acquiring a star player, we have to take a chance on a guy with huge potential at both ends of the floor. It's tough to hit a home run when you're trying to bunt.

That's the only reason you take either Drummond or Jones III. But has a guy who's character has been questioned coming into the league led a team to a title in recent memory?

If you deem him to be a superior talent, it's a chance you have to take. I think the character questions with Drummond are overdone. More than anything, he wasn't taught the proper fundamentals in high school.

FTW · Post #585 » by **FTW** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:18 pm

As much as I like New Bargs this year, and think that if he can keep up his current play level he'll finally justify #1 pick status in that draft (and that's a monsterous step forward IMO).....I'd definitely trade him for a lotto pick depending on what the board is finally expected to look like. If Ed starts to turn it around a little bit and finish the season strong, then ship him out as well.

Why? Well, chance of regression, for one. But also, if Davis or Drummond is going to be a pick for us (and I think you take Drummond in a heartbeart if he's available), then we'll have a massive logjam up front already. Eithr we flip one of Val or [2012 big] for another position player, or we flip the existing assets that we have - Amir, Davis, or New Bargs. Out of those three, I'd keep Amir to be honest, because I think Davis has about the same trade value based on potential but hasn't shown he'll get to where Amir is, and because the New Bargs must have significant value right now.

Look, I'm fully expecting Val and/or Davis/Drummond to take at least 3 years after the 2012 draft before we can consider them genuine NBA starter material. At that time Amir will be 28 and Bargs will be 29-30. For New Bargs the window isn't closed, but it's damn sure narrowing. His game isn't based on athleticism but a large component of it is the threat of his first step - I don't see him being able to compensate by adding an unguardable shot like Dirk has done, as Bargs simply doesn't have that mobility. His shot won't desert him and age won't make a monsterous impact, but simply put a 29/30-year old big is probably on the tail end of a career.

If we're going to have to draft another big and you can pick up a lotto for New Bargs? Go with Val, Drummond/Davis, Amir and [backup big] up front, along with a lotto SF/PG, take the pain for another year, and fix remaining holes in the 2013 draft along with big FA signing.

Either way, I think we need another high (or at least lotto) pick in 2013 to complete the rebuild - and I hope BC sees that as well. Hold your nose for another year....

Al_Oliver · Post #586 » by **Al_Oliver** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:15 pm

JamesNaismith wrote:I know talent when I see it and Andre Drummond is still the best prospect in the draft. I'm praying teams pass on him cuz Calhoun loves not utilizing freshmen.....him and Val together and this tank was all worthwhile for me.

so what team do you scout for?

Post #587 » by **FluLikeSymptoms** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:54 pm

Davis is great, but he's a defense-first big who couldn't stop somebody like a focused Drummond, who could also protect the rim and rebound while being much bigger, stronger, faster and more athletic.

If you think Drummond can focus, then you take him. Why take a stopper like Davis over somebody he couldn't stop? Andre's physical makeup is perfect. He would have to, in an interview situation, talk me out of picking him #1. He could realistically do that if he's as dumb as some think but it's his to lose for me.

Mediocrity · Post #588 » by **Mediocrity** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 8:27 pm

How early would you guys consider taking Machado? He has maintained his terrific start, and is averaging 13 PPG 10 APG on 46% FG, 40% 3FG. If he keeps playing this well and has a good tournament, how high would you consider taking him? I would love taking him, and would gladly trade Ed or Amir plus other combinations. I think I would even consider taking him in the 10-14 range, but perhaps I am crazy.

nahom1319 · Post #589 » by **nahom1319** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:08 pm

Mediocrity wrote:How early would you guys consider taking Machado? He has maintained his terrific start, and is averaging 13 PPG 10 APG on 46% FG, 40% 3FG. If he keeps playing this well and has a good tournament, how high would you consider taking him? I would love taking him, and would gladly trade Ed or Amir plus other combinations. I think I would even consider taking him in the 10-14 range, but perhaps I am crazy.

I honestly thought you just spelled Macadoo like an idiot...I had to actually look up who he is on Draft Express.. From what I've read he is definitely worth a look. May be an issue defenisvely but I'll check him out. Late first round for me.

Mediocrity · Post #590 » by **Mediocrity** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:22 pm

nahom1319 wrote:
Mediocrity wrote:How early would you guys consider taking Machado? He has maintained his terrific start, and is averaging 13 PPG 10 APG on 46% FG, 40% 3FG. If he keeps playing this well and has a good tournament, how high would you consider taking him? I would love taking him, and would gladly trade Ed or Amir plus other combinations. I think I would even consider taking him in the 10-14 range, but perhaps I am crazy.

I honestly thought you just spelled Macadoo like an idiot...I had to actually look up who he is on Draft Express.. From what I've read he is definitely worth a look. May be an issue defenisvely but I'll check him out. Late first round for me.

Really? I am not trying to imply that I know everything about Machado, but to me I do not see why he should not be rated above Kabongo at least. Yes, he is a senior, but he is still only 21 and is averaging 10 APG and 5 RPG. I have only seen him play once, so I could be completely off here on evaluating him, but if anybody has consistently watched him play I would love to hear your thoughts. He reminds me of Rondo, but again I am not saying he will be as good as Rondo, they just seem pretty similar.

andyo · Post #591 » by **andyo** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:28 pm

You can't pass on Drummond's upside. I remember people hating on DeAndre during draft time as being a bust but the raw potential was always there. Drummond is much more polished at the same age. In terms of upside, Drummond has as much or more than Anthony Davis and both of these two players are the clear #1, and #2 as of right now. If we get the #2, we'd be crazy to trade or pass up on Drummond.

Mediocrity · Post #592 » by **Mediocrity** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:30 pm

By the way, does anyone have a sig for Anthony Davis?

fredericklove · Post #593 » by **fredericklove** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:59 pm

FluLikeSymptoms wrote:If you think Drummond can focus, then you take him. Why take a stopper like Davis over somebody he couldn't stop? Andre's physical makeup is perfect. He would have to, in an interview situation, talk me out of picking him #1. He could realistically do that if he's as dumb as some think but it's his to lose for me.

With all the physical makeup and talent, his major flaw is his focus. Thats the thing, he can't focus. That's too much risk to take for a #1 especially for raptors cos drafting one of the ADs mean they will move bargnani and even davis on the block, thats a pretty huge move for a raptors franchise, everything is a deep calculated risk, you make one wrong move you're screwing the whole raptors up especially we're on a rebuilding phase. Drummond is either hit or miss, if we miss we are in deep sh*t wasting a pick, i much rather we get a safer pick (Davis), even if offensively he won't avg 20, he's still able to do it defensively at a very good rate plus his FOCUS, intensity and motor will make him a highly efficient player at a tier 2 big men level due to his length and athleticism and awareness on both ends. His physical frame isn't ideal but a lot of bigs come into the league skinny, then work their frame up so size isn't likely too concern if he can build up in year 2 or 3 in nba.

fredericklove · Post #594 » by **fredericklove** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:02 pm

Mediocrity wrote:By the way, does anyone have a sig for Anthony Davis?

fredericklove · Post #595 » by **fredericklove** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:04 pm

andyo wrote:You can't pass on Drummond's upside. I remember people hating on DeAndre during draft time as being a bust but the raw potential was always there. Drummond is much more polished at the same age. In terms of upside, Drummond has as much or more than Anthony Davis and both of these two players are the clear #1, and #2 as of right now. If we get the #2, we'd be crazy to trade or pass up on Drummond.

Yea thats why i hope we don't get #2 cos BC will likely have no choice but to take him at that spot. I rather we get #3 so we can take one of the best wings, we have serious lack of talent at the 1, 2 and 3.

Mediocrity · Post #596 » by **Mediocrity** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:08 pm

fredericklove wrote:
Mediocrity wrote:By the way, does anyone have a sig for Anthony Davis?

Awesome, thanks!

Dr Positivity · Post #597 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:18 pm

Mediocrity wrote:
nahom1319 wrote:
Mediocrity wrote:How early would you guys consider taking Machado? He has maintained his terrific start, and is averaging 13 PPG 10 APG on 46% FG, 40% 3FG. If he keeps playing this well and has a good tournament, how high would you consider taking him? I would love taking him, and would gladly trade Ed or Amir plus other combinations. I think I would even consider taking him in the 10-14 range, but perhaps I am crazy.

I honestly thought you just spelled Macadoo like an idiot...I had to actually look up who he is on Draft Express.. From what I've read he is definitely worth a look. May be an issue defenisvely but I'll check him out. Late first round for me.

Really? I am not trying to imply that I know everything about Machado, but to me I do not see why he should not be rated above Kabongo at least. Yes, he is a senior, but he is still only 21 and is averaging 10 APG and 5 RPG. I have only seen him play once, so I could be completely off here on evaluating him, but if anybody has consistently watched him play I would love to hear your thoughts. He reminds me of Rondo, but again I am not saying he will be as good as Rondo, they just seem pretty similar.

I really like both Machado and Marshall to have NBA careers and maybe be lower level starters. But I wouldn't spend a pick higher than 20s on them just because getting a B- PG is next to pointless long term. Their upside is probably a Jose Calderon level PG (who I believe is better than people give him credit for mind you), or Ramon Sessions who we can sign this summer if we want him. Not a very rare asset with PGs nowadays, very few teams need a starting PG enough to give us assets for them down the road. Most likely scenario is them ending up our long term backup

wegetitin08 · Post #598 » by **wegetitin08** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:30 pm

Lamb or Barnes

fredericklove · Post #599 » by **fredericklove** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:46 pm

Mediocrity wrote:
fredericklove wrote:
Mediocrity wrote:By the way, does anyone have a sig for Anthony Davis?

Awesome, thanks!

Davis over Drummond. Wise choice 8-)

nahom1319 · Post #600 » by **nahom1319** » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:48 pm

Mediocrity wrote:
nahom1319 wrote:
Mediocrity wrote:How early would you guys consider taking Machado? He has maintained his terrific start, and is averaging 13 PPG 10 APG on 46% FG, 40% 3FG. If he keeps playing this well and has a good tournament, how high would you consider taking him? I would love taking him, and would gladly trade Ed or Amir plus other combinations. I think I would even consider taking him in the 10-14 range, but perhaps I am crazy.

I honestly thought you just spelled Macadoo like an idiot...I had to actually look up who he is on Draft Express.. From what I've read he is definitely worth a look. May be an issue defenisvely but I'll check him out. Late first round for me.

Really? I am not trying to imply that I know everything about Machado, but to me I do not see why he should not be rated above Kabongo at least. Yes, he is a senior, but he is still only 21 and is averaging 10 APG and 5 RPG. I have only seen him play once, so I could be completely off here on evaluating him, but if anybody has consistently watched him play I would love to hear your thoughts. He reminds me of Rondo, but again I am not saying he will be as good as Rondo, they just seem pretty similar.

The reason why I wouldn't take him till the end of first round (mid to late 20's) is because he is a senior, has trouble defending, and can't create in the halfcourt (all from Draft Express, again I haven't seen the kid play). Which to me says Jose 1.5 (since he can actually run a fast break). Is he worth a closer look sure (who knows he could have incredible intangibles), but based off stats and the writeup I wouldn't even consider him before 20.

edit: there is no way in hell I would draft him over Cody Zeller who is ranked 18th right now... (who to me looks like a steal)

Who do you want the Raptors to draft in the 2012 NBA Draft?