Does Bogut have enough offense to help the Hawks?

[Ruhiel]

it is pathetic that even with Horford out, Bogut is still a scrub, offensively and defensively .

It is pathetic that without Horford we're expected to beat and lose against the same teams and delivering.


Edit: I'm looking at Bogut's stats. 6 pts. 3-10. Were they bad looks off of isos vs Zaza? Pretty much.

12 rebounds. 3 offensive. 4 assists. 0 turnovers. 25 minutes.

Horford 12 pts & 7 rebounds & 2 assists and 1.5 turnovers before going down. 32 minutes.

zaza 9 and 14 rebounds. 1 assist 0 turnovers. 38 minutes today.

Zaza's better than Bogut? Yes? No? Then how exactly is Horford not a scrub? Because he plays for a good team?

[parson]

Yet you're not a hater.

[Ruhiel]

Zaza is a bad finisher and goes for 9 and 14. Just off of hitting broken plays.

Why exactly do we need a back to the back center? As opposed to going big shooting and letting the big men get it.

Leuer
Marvin is weak against PFs you just said it in another post. Leuer did not play today but in Marvin/Vlad's role is no doubt better. Box out better? check. Shoot over defense? check. Shoot off the dribble? check.

Is that hating to say Josh+Marvin is worse than Josh+Leuer? Did or did not Ilyasova just go for a double double on us?

Bogut
Bogut's back to back scoring? Dwight Howard is a back to the back center. By all measures he's better on offense than Bogut. How many points did Dwight Howard's team just score?


You want to throw the ball into a center and then put Josh where? Who rebounds?

Your guards create and shoot while your frontcourt rebounds. Your guards slash and draw fouls on bigs.

Be a realist.

[Superiorblogman]

Be a realist.

You need to learn the old wise saying that a smart man picks and chooses his battles. You have been fighting this silly redundant battle to the point that you are surely a troll. Then comes last night when we see your prospects up close and personal and they both leave a lot more to be desired than the key player you are advocating that we trade. Yet, you continue with your trolling. What else can I call it at this point? Help me out here.

[baseline33]

Be a realist.

You need to learn the old wise saying that a smart man picks and chooses his battles. You have been fighting this silly redundant battle to the point that you are surely a troll. Then comes last night when we see your prospects up close and personal and they both leave a lot more to be desired than the key player you are advocating that we trade. Yet, you continue with your trolling. What else can I call it at this point? Help me out here.

+1

some people don't only know when they are wrong, but they also don't know when to give up when they are wrong.

[Ruhiel]

Alright this is what I've gathered.

1) Jon Leuer is 1 for 4 from 3 his entire season but he is not better than Marvin Williams?

No, Marvin Williams is garbage and was embarassing yesterday. No we cant trade him but if we could we would. Literally bricked a layup underneath the basket yesterday, outletting to Josh to lead the break not getting around screens while guarding Livingston. Didn't protect the rim when in the paint.

Leuer vs Marvin not even going to delve into that one. Maybe I can find the video of my PC of his 3. Think I deleted it though. Any rate Marvin is still on this team because theres no alternative with his contract.

Horford has no back 2 the basket game, limited faceup game, and if his jumper disappeared he'll attack the rim. How'd that work out?
But we're talking about Bogut's offense?

Since when did "back to the basket game" become the thing that kept us from contending? It was always size.

In a thread called "Does Bogut have enough offense to help the Hawks" he doesn't have enough but Zaza does?

Ivan Johnson is dropping double-doubles and getting assists. Zaza is dropping double doubles and getting assists.
Where are their back to the basket games?

Let's ignore the fact that Bogut's defense alone would fuel our break and get us get more touches.

How is that happening? Are Zaza or Ivan better offensively than Bogut?
But anyways which one of you wants to tell me Bogut would not help the Hawks because he doesn't have a back to the basket game?

Keep it real inferior and whitelines.

[johnny878]

I see Bogut as an upgrade from horford at Center to be honest.

With how the hawks have been playing lately WITHOUT HORFORD, it really makes you wonder how much of an impact horford has had on the hawks. The hawks really dont seem to miss him at all tbh.

Horfords best asset is that 10-12 shot he has. He also has fairly solid hands for finishing. He has 0 post moves. And is average at best defensively and rebounding.

Whereas Bogut is good defensively and at reboudning. And the hawks really werent getting much offense out of the 5 spot with horford. So his lack of offense really isnt a huge issue here.

[HMFFL]

The Bucks continue to bench Bogut in the 4th. Interesting!

[Ruhiel]

The Bucks continue to bench Bogut in the 4th. Interesting!

Where you been! We missed you!

I see Bogut as an upgrade from horford at Center to be honest.

With how the hawks have been playing lately WITHOUT HORFORD, it really makes you wonder how much of an impact horford has had on the hawks. The hawks really dont seem to miss him at all tbh.

Horfords best asset is that 10-12 shot he has. He also has fairly solid hands for finishing. He has 0 post moves. And is average at best defensively and rebounding.

Whereas Bogut is good defensively and at reboudning. And the hawks really werent getting much offense out of the 5 spot with horford. So his lack of offense really isnt a huge issue here.

I'm really not seeing how anyone can say Horford's impact, is anything but neutral. Its real "surreal" nowadays.
Look at what Pachulia's been doing, and the advanced stats indeed say Horford's been overrated.
People say the league is not filled with smart players. Yet Pachulia has been able to fit in and keep games close and win. Despite turnovers, not moving without the ball as well, and fouls.
All he does is rebound and try to get shots inside. Play tough.

Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, and Teague dictate the offensive and defensive sets and everyone else fills in playing off of them on defense and offense. That's the outside Forward (T-Mac/Vlad) and the center (Zaza).

It's real surreal for anyone to say Horford is a clear positive as far as producing from that grunt position.
He complains and says he's undersized and it appears Horford was right. We would have been better with a true 5 like Asik.
But where Horford was wrong was dictating Smith to the 3 and Horford to the 4. Smith would have to stay outside like T-Mac/Vlad.

We finally got:

Smith (inside), Forward (outside), center (inside)
Horford can't play Forward (outside) nor center (inside)

Yeah we need a true center and a true outside shooter but Horford is neither. And he's sure not as mismatch capable on offense as Josh Smith.

Without Horford starting the team's finally showing its true identity with grit and no complaining.

Yeah we have no true center or no true shooter (ie Marvin benched and Smith shoots a 3 in MIL) but Horford does not fill either position!

12 & 7 with average defensive efficiency (in context with team leader)

Its become clearly apparent that it would be best for both Horford and the team to part ways and explore 1) a true starting center and 2) a true starting shooter and that's possible as soon as March 1st.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_xN1y1NOHw

[HMFFL]

The Bucks continue to bench Bogut in the 4th. Interesting!

Where you been! We missed you!

I doubt that.

Work sends me out of the country about 5 days a month.

[HMFFL]

Bogut sprained his ankle badly tonight against Houston. The injuries continue for him.

[MaceCase]

O rly? Can't blame it on fatigue, he was well rested from the Hawks game. Good on his garbage team to carry on without him though.

[Ruhiel]

Wow, just Bogut is out indefinitely with a fractured ankle.

Guess he not only has bad luck but he has weak bones like Oden. I saw the play and he was somehow defending the fast break and came down on Lowry's foot as he went up for a block.

Just couldn't make it healthy to March 1st huh Bogut. Any chance Leuer gets dropped from the roster and we just happen to pick him up

‘I knew when I came down I was in some trouble. Keeping optimistic, everything’s fine with the X-ray, but that’s to be expected. I know I didn’t break a bone. But tomorrow’s the day of reckoning where I go under the MRI machine and find out my fate.’ The best-case scenario would be a severely sprained ankle, but even that would be likely to sideline Bogut for a week or more. ‘Once we know what the diagnosis is, we’ll know how to treat it,” Bogut said. “But it’s going to be ice-massage, ice-massage, ice-massage. I’m not optimistic. With my history of unlucky injuries I’m hoping this one can do me a favor and (go away). Most of my injuries are unfortunate things and this goes in the same boat as that. It’s frustrating.’ Bogut said if he gets some good news ‘hopefully it would be a week thing. We’ll see what happens.’”

[HMFFL]

Injury prone players like Bogut are what kill the small market teams.

$12,100,000 (This Season)
$13,150,000
$14,200,000

I'd suggest the Bucks should move him just to get his contract off the books but the chances are slim that any quality talent would sign with them during the off-season.

[Ruhiel]

I really could care less what Milwaukee does with Bogut.
We beat Orlando with Jason Collins Pachulia and Armstrong.

The biggest draw was the added size and shooting ability of Jon Leuer. And it pisses me off that we could have had that pick but gave it up for Hinrich.

And that we probably would have picked someone stupid. And with Teagues underdevelopment that we probably wouldn't have beaten Orlando without trading Bibby for Hinrich.

This management just lacks player evaluation and long term planning. We need a shooting big to balance the core. Its unbelieveable that the only guy who even comes close to this profile is Radmanovic. Would we even have him if not for being drafted by Sund?

I have no idea how these guys are building a team. But as far as this topic. Our biggest problem is not center offense. Its center defense.
And it would be fixed with Rasheed Wallace and Al Horford and Josh Smith. As opposed to Marvin Williams and Josh and Al/Zaza/etc.

His size can help box out so we gang rebound and close possessions keep the score low. Then his offense can spread the floor and hit shots accurately.

[Superiorblogman]

I really could care less what Milwaukee does with Bogut.

Dude, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously? You run around ajc with your username containing Bogut but you don't care what they do with him.

You simply overrated Bogut and became a troll about him when plenty people were trying to tell you about his injury prone career and how he will never be worth a piece like Al Horford. Bogut isn't even on Tyson Chandler level he stays hurt too much and is killing that team. They should have long traded him if it would bring back what some of you think, but the fact is it will never bring back what some of you think.

Marvin, Zaza, and 2 1st rd picks are way too much. Those picks could be more important than Bogut. We got Teague with a mid to late 1st round pick and the same goes for Josh. SMH at people overrating guys like Bogut.

[evildallas]

I came here just to see this thread die.

[epfou1]

Would still trade for Bogut given his injuries issues.
The good thing is that the price to acquire him will be lower.

Marvin + Zaza in the offseason for Bogut

[Ruhiel]

We (I) wanted Leuer WAY more than Bogut. No one here wants Bogut's contract anymore.