Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 4

[fredericklove]

I just started watching UNC now, Barnes having a good game so far. Any smooth plays he made in this game?

Jumper looks smooth, as usual. A couple great drives/fakes but lost the handle - he needs to clean that up but his ability to get by the first layer or 2 into the paint is improving, and the paint is more packed in college. Had a ridiculous reverse layup - one of the best shots I've seen in a while. In general still looks like the most consistent and polished player. He should step in and average 15+ as a rookie and be up over 20 by his soph or junior season, and still provide terrific perimeter D.

Edit: Reverse layup can be seen in the highlight package here: http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=320290153 although there seems to be a glitch in the video right when he goes up on my computer.

wow that reverse layup was SICK, and he drives with his LEFT hand rarely get to see that. But that's my boy right there, and no doubt NBA's paint is less packed I see him having a really good rookie season too, I can't see him not stepping in to avg 15 as rookie too. Thx for the recap.

[JamesNaismith]

The only other thing I would mention in this discussion about Thabeet vs Davis is that your (DK) claim about him being high on the draft boards like AD is incorrect. Many analysts thought he screamed bust all over him for his low bbiq, low motor and general feel for the game. If I'm not mistaken there were some likening him to Shawn Bradley PRIOR to the draft....there are no such comparisons for Davis.

He was also projected closer to 4-8th overall and pretty surprised he went higher. Davis has from day 1 been considered the top pick for obvious reasons.

[DarkKnight]

The only other thing I would mention in this discussion about Thabeet vs Davis is that your (DK) claim about him being high on the draft boards like AD is incorrect. Many analysts thought he screamed bust all over him for his low bbiq, low motor and general feel for the game. If I'm not mistaken there were some likening him to Shawn Bradley PRIOR to the draft....there are no such comparisons for Davis.

He was also projected closer to 4-8th overall and pretty surprised he went higher. Davis has from day 1 been considered the top pick for obvious reasons.

I don't think I mentioned Thabeet in relation to the pre-draft boards but just that he was a #2 pick. I even think it's unfair to bradley to compare him to Thabeet. Bradley was at least a serviceable NBA player and shotblocker.

[fredericklove]

yeah you're right, it looks like he did it earlier this year (last year I don't think he had those until well into the draft process). I doubt a GM would take Barnes over Drummond at #2. I could see maybe PJIII, or perhaps Lamb, but not really with Barnes.

These rankings are really bad though, he has the Spurs selecting Austin Rivers with the #2 pick

I could easily see Barnes going 2 or even 1 when it's all over. Granted I am a big fan of his game, but just trying to look at it objectively as a GM:

a) Probably the highest floor in the draft. At worst you've got Marvin Williams or Luol Deng- a SF with prototype size, great defensive instincts and effort, a jumpshot with range easily out to the NBA 3, solid athleticism and a number of polished mid-range moves. A guy like that might not be a franchise player, but that seems like his floor at this point. And as a GM you rarely get fired for ending up with a very good player even if he doesn't turn out to be a world beater. You DO get fired for busting entirely.

b) Work ethic, personality, and durability. By all accounts he is a tireless worker. First guy in last guy out of the gym. Terrific, engaging personality and consummate team guy. No red flags for bad behaviour or influences. Terrific family background. No injury flags at all, and a body type built for the NBA. So, very few things to go wrong outside his game.

c) End of game. Every team needs a player you can give the ball with 10 seconds left and ask them to win it. Heck, every team needs a guy with 5 minutes left that can take over a close game. Barnes has done this multiple times in his short college career. He's a clutch performer and gets better as the game gets bigger and tougher. These guys are hard to find.

d) Ceiling. It's not his best attribute as the freshmen are sexier from this angle (Davis and Drummond). Both of those 2 bigs have things that cannot be learned - length/athleticism for Davis, size/athleticism for Drummond. But Barnes still has a ceiling as a Paul Pierce type in the NBA and that's a HOF player.

So while Davis and Drummond have the "If they add offense/production to their games you could have something special!" going for them, Barnes is the reliable pick. As a recent example - Hasheem Thabeet vs. James Harden. No, it's not exactly the same, as I think many people had Thabeet in the bust-for-sure column, neither was Harden as highly regarded throughout his amateur career. But Thabeet was the raw, shotblocking genius who could fill that always-so-tough center spot, and a team made the choice to pick him #2 overall, ahead of the surefire solid player in Harden. I bet Memphis wishes they had that one back.

So...who knows what will happen the rest of this NCAA season. It's certainly not inconceivable for Barnes to move up or down people's boards, or for teams to have differing opinions on players.

I like what you wrote about Barnes, he's our homeboy and I personally would love to have a poor man's Paul Pierce talent on our team. But realistically in the draft, all GMs tend to gear toward the potential upside talent so I really doubt any GM takes Barnes over Drummond@2nd pick. Drummond is the high risk/high reward pick, this is why you see every year in a draft GM will take one of those picks higher than the "NBA-ready" safe pick. This is why I pray the lord we don't get a 2nd pick (I much rather have 3rd pick) so we can draft Barnes@3rd. If we end up with the 2nd and BC drafts Drummond, I won't be mad cos I pretty much expect this to happen if we get 2nd (even tho I really hate Drummond). And I know for sure if we end up drafting Barnes on draft day. I'll be the first one going absolutely crazy on the board, celebrating like a BOSS And on that day, I will officially change my name from fredericklove to frederick40.

[fredericklove]

The only other thing I would mention in this discussion about Thabeet vs Davis is that your (DK) claim about him being high on the draft boards like AD is incorrect. Many analysts thought he screamed bust all over him for his low bbiq, low motor and general feel for the game. If I'm not mistaken there were some likening him to Shawn Bradley PRIOR to the draft....there are no such comparisons for Davis.

He was also projected closer to 4-8th overall and pretty surprised he went higher. Davis has from day 1 been considered the top pick for obvious reasons.

I thought Thabeet would be an absolutely defensive stud, like a Ibaka type defense and knew his offense is raw as hell and prolly takes 5 years to develop. But who knew he was gonna suck this much For davis, its hard to see him being a complete bust. He's got the athleticism, awareness and motor to back up his skillset while a guy like Thabeet prolly doesn't have those 3 traits to back up his defensive skills.

[CunningLinguist]

The only other thing I would mention in this discussion about Thabeet vs Davis is that your (DK) claim about him being high on the draft boards like AD is incorrect. Many analysts thought he screamed bust all over him for his low bbiq, low motor and general feel for the game. If I'm not mistaken there were some likening him to Shawn Bradley PRIOR to the draft....there are no such comparisons for Davis.

He was also projected closer to 4-8th overall and pretty surprised he went higher. Davis has from day 1 been considered the top pick for obvious reasons.

I thought Thabeet would be an absolutely defensive stud, like a Ibaka type defense and knew his offense is raw as hell and prolly takes 5 years to develop. But who knew he was gonna suck this much For davis, its hard to see him being a complete bust. He's got the athleticism, awareness and motor to back up his skillset while a guy like Thabeet prolly doesn't have those 3 traits to back up his defensive skills.

The thing with Thabeet is that he always had such a low basketball IQ

[fredericklove]

Hey can you post the Espn link here? I tried looking all over the site and even googling and couldn't find it.

http://espn.go.com/nba/lottery2012/mockdraft

I got Cody Zeller at 8th on my first try

[Marlo Stanfield]

Cody Zeller everytime until finally....

[Rapsfan07]

If Drummond falls, I'd take him and not look back. I'd really like Miller though. I think when it's all said and done, he'll surprise a lot of people.

But either way, we need to start tanking seriously. In this short season, every game counts.

[SkywalkerAC]

Still in a good position to get a good wing that falls a bit - Lamb, Miller, Beal?

Henson would solidify our frontcourt pretty well too. Can never have enough bigs.

[fredericklove]

I checked every scout breakdown of the players in that draft mock and LOL at nothing being written about Austin River. And do any of you think he'll declare this year or stay for another year?

[Big Shot]

If Raps get #1 pick and draft Davis, who eventually becomes a franchise player as some people expect, what would you like to do with AB? Assumed AB still plays at a high level at PF as Davis does and JV also plays well at C.

Would you think this 3 bigs rotation work or waste of talent with one coming off the bench?

We'd be in no rush to trade one of them right away, and could take our time to evaluate how our teams stands (including seeing if the three can play together, which would be a huge bonus if possible), but I would look to see what kind of offers are out there for all three of them (as the only legit C, Jonas is still the guy I'd want to keep most out of the three, honestly I think he's even better than whoever we might be able to draft this year). I think we could get a significant upgrade at another position if we're willing to listen to offers for Davis in particular. No matter how things end up though, we'd have all three locked up for at least three more years, which is huge for us.

I still think there's a small chance we might be able to run all three out there. On offense, Davis and Jonas play in the post with Bargs playing like a SF (somewhat like the Thunder), on defense one of them will need to be able to cover guys on the perimeter--we've seen Bargs have to do this at times with mixed results. I think Davis would do a better job at it but he's played the C all year so it's hard to say. That would be a ridiculously long frontcourt though, and could be really effective when we run the zone. Certainly worth experimenting with to see how things look, and could possibly end up being the best frontcourt in the league.

I kind of thought the same after I posted.

[fredericklove]

Btw, the score tomorrow night will show Tennessee vs. Kentucky@7 and North Caolina vs. Wake Forest@9, then wed night the score will show UCONN vs Georgetown@7 and Baylor vs. Texas A&M@9. Sweet, I get to see all games in real TV quality.

[Undefeated]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd take Andre Drummond over Anthony Davis. By no means is it disrespect towards Anthony Davis because I certainly see him being able to anchor a team's defense given his freakish physical tools along with his phenomenal basketball IQ, but his offensive game is still so raw for a big man that it will take some time to develop. The Raptors are lacking a player that can create on the inside and/or outside big time that the need for one is clear as day which there are a few prospects who can fulfill that need while also having the potential to be a terrific two-way player (i.e. Andre Drummond and Harrison Barnes).

It's a legitimate argument that Anthony Davis playing with Marquis Teague, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Terrence Jones, Doron Lamb, and Darius Miller restricts him a bit offensively, but at the same time it's possible he is what he is and that's a clean up guy. I like how he's got terrific point guard hands being able to catch bad passes, but I haven't seen this court vision of his when he played point guard prior to his growth spurt. Heck, even Andre Drummond has shown that elite court vision and passing from time-to-time while being in a similar environment like Anthony Davis playing behind the likes of Jeremy Lamb, Shabazz Napier and Ryan Boatwright. For all of Drummond's questionable or lack thereof of a motor, his skillset, talent and potential is too much to give up. I haven't seen a big man prospect with this sort of advanced footwork, ball-handling, court vision and the ability to face up or play with his back-to-the-basket making his shots at a extremely high-level at the age of 18. I think having a coach lighting a fire under his butt could force him to play with that intensity like Anthony Davis, but one things for sure, his skill level is miles beyond Anthony Davis at this point. I just think that with coach Casey demanding his players to play with a lot of effort, it's highly possible that Drummond buying into what coach Casey demands could yield a really, really dangerous player.

[Ackshun]

Michael Gilchrist would be Casey's boy. Guy is 100% dedicated to D.

[tcee]

brief highlight mix of mkg

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOzb2-WghjY[/youtube]

[fredericklove]

brief highlight mix of mkg

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOzb2-WghjY[/youtube]

About time theres MKG mix! Been waiting for it for so long, thanks bro.

[Leolovinliberal]

Interesting thread on Barnes on the draft board. A ton of red flags with Barnes.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1156037

[Mascot]

Best Player in the draft will be Michael Gilchrist



Best sleeper in the draft will be Damian Lillard

[JamesNaismith]

brief highlight mix of mkg

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOzb2-WghjY[/youtube]

Looks 100% like a great energy/hustle player....and he would definitely thrive in Casey's system. But I keep saying it that I would only like him with a 2nd pick. If we picked up another or we were lucky like NOH then I would draft either Barnes or Lamb and then grab MKG with the 2nd.

The only team to me that he makes complete sense as a 1st pick is SAC.

That team already has 2 great young talents....what they need is a glue guy to bring them together and influence the culture (even WAS to a lesser degree as they're still in need of more talent).