Game #20: Magic(12-7) @ Pacers(12-6) 6PM EST SunSports

[maginno]

Maginno, do you watch the games? Did you not see that Earl Clark brought energy and hustle early in the game against the Pacers less than a week ago, helped stop a run from them, and helped put the team on track to win the game??

YEs Ben I watch the games Do you? or even look at a score card. a blowout loss tells you one thing - the whole team was down. what does it tell you? What did watching it tell you different?

Energy guys like him and Von Wafer don't need a full game to change the course of a game. You can't look at it in a vacuum of "would they take 21 points off", because thy don't need to. They just need to be put in at the right time to spark a run and then the whole outcome of the game could hangs dramatically.

pure nonsense. Seriously did you watch this game? Was it not apparent that the whole team was off? We had a run in the second quarter. Did it change "the outcome of the whole game"? You can have runs at the right time all you want. When a team is playing that much better than the other side they survive the run and then go on their own. This is the same garbage used to be floated about Bass. Shoot its floated over any and everyone with a little promise as the excuse for a team losing no matter how badly all the other players are playing.

At the end of the day Both Von Wafer and Clark's career before coming here indicates they were not ready to play big minutes. claiming because of some vaporous "energy" that Stan should now declare them NBA ready for major minutes is too silly. Hmmm didn't most of this board want Bass over anderson for just the same reason? Sure did. Now who would you want Bass or Anderson?

[maginno]

+1000
They give us a different look off the bench.....We've been the same team for 3 years....And other teams know how to stop us....Al Horford said it best last year....New players..Same team he said that when they trashed us in the regular season and eventually went on to trash us in the post season....

Your GM always either brings in the same kind of players or ones that are not ready to play. None of you can touch what Von Wafer was and has been his whole career. Instead you whine about what he did in a couple games. Now given that history and the fact that he's done nothing in this league with several teams what are the chances that there are very good reasons why he has not got the minutes ANYWHERE. and that those same reasons may be affecting Stan's decisions.

Now thats not to say that He can't turn things around. I like what Von Wafer brings but I am not going to sit here and play the total fairy tale game that if you had put Von Wafer in when everyone was stinking up the joint that you end up by some magical energy at the right moment winning that game you lost by 21 points. Thats just plain moronic and its something you guys are holding on to for the simple reason that its easier to get going on coaching than getting good players because its an illusionary quick fix.

[magicman123]

Magic lose at home to the Pacers....

pacers are the 3rd best team in the east
magic are DONE.

pacers aren't that good, sorry not buying the hype

[Bensational]

Energy guys like him and Von Wafer don't need a full game to change the course of a game. You can't look at it in a vacuum of "would they take 21 points off", because thy don't need to. They just need to be put in at the right time to spark a run and then the whole outcome of the game could hangs dramatically.

pure nonsense. Seriously did you watch this game? Was it not apparent that the whole team was off? We had a run in the second quarter. Did it change "the outcome of the whole game"? You can have runs at the right time all you want. When a team is playing that much better than the other side they survive the run and then go on their own. This is the same garbage used to be floated about Bass. Shoot its floated over any and everyone with a little promise as the excuse for a team losing no matter how badly all the other players are playing.

At the end of the day Both Von Wafer and Clark's career before coming here indicates they were not ready to play big minutes. claiming because of some vaporous "energy" that Stan should now declare them NBA ready for major minutes is too silly. Hmmm didn't most of this board want Bass over anderson for just the same reason? Sure did. Now who would you want Bass or Anderson?

i honestly don't think you know the first thing about basketball. you comment a whole lot more on the goings on in the basketball world than you do about the ins and outs of the game itself, and when you do comment on games it's telling you don't really have a clue what you're talking about.

players don't show up to a game in a constant state of "on" or "off". it changes throughout the game. the whole team wasn't "off" all night, as shown by their strong run in the 2nd. the coach just didn't capitalize on that in the 3rd and 4th.

you should stick to arguing semantics mags.

[maginno]

i honestly don't think you know the first thing about basketball. you comment a whole lot more on the goings on in the basketball world than you do about the ins and outs of the game itself, and when you do comment on games it's telling you don't really have a clue what you're talking about.

Ben I KNOW you do not know what you are talking about. I don't just think it. You proved it. Your ignorance is in thinking you a forum poster can contradict what SEVERAL coaches who have coached Von Wafer clearly indicate. I've been right about more things than you ever have in regard to this team when you were still running around thinking how great it was. I called the rashard signing being a future meltdown for this team YEARS AGO, I called the Ariza trade as a bad trade when most of you were jumping up and down and saying he was permanently damage goods, I called that JJ would be a solid player when Stan was done grooming him and I was the number one poster calling for otis to step down when most of you were telling me to shut up. So give me a break about you knowing more than me about Bball. LOL.

Von Wafer can be salvaged the same way Jj was - by earning his wings in practice which the team has not had as much opportunity this year to do. He has the skill set but its raw. As it is Stan is giving him plenty burn compared to what every other team he has been on besides Houston has. You just sklirt aorund those fact s every time they are posted like you are in shellshock at the facts. He will be a disaster one game and good in another. earl can be a good player as well but to claim that just because you see spurts here and there that they are now ready to take the helm and erase/impede a 21 point deficit marks you for the totally newb to bball that you are. its ridiculous.

players don't show up to a game in a constant state of "on" or "off".

Who said that they did oh master of the strawman. My reference to being off was not on quarter to quarter basis but as a sum total of how the night went. try again. You look at one upsurge in a quarter and make the ridiculous claim that somehow that should enure that the coach could "capitalize on it" like you can put one quarters performance and bottle it up for the 3rd and 4th. Fact is Hedo has been over achieving compared to what he's been doing for the years he was away from us. He was bound to fall back to earth. Jrich is a shell of his former self and goes up and down like Hedo does only more so down recently. Our PG situation reak but um okay stan should capitalize on one quarter by um lets see now transfering it over to Von Wafer who would magically come in and stop the 21 point drubbing with his "energy"

and all this based on your crystal ball, one basket and getting to the foul line for a total of 4 point

you should stick to arguing semantics mags.

and you should stick to talking about little softball or something because if you took this argument to the main board without Von Wafer homers they'd laugh you right off the forum claiming he and clark would have turned that drubbing around.

[minimoe]

I didnt watch this game (Its been difficult to watch any as of late.. Just to damn frustrating..) But did anyone notice of Howard got booed at all??

[Bensational]

Lol, I have never read a post that screams "I don't know what I'm talking about, I didn't watch the game but I'm goin to argue anyway" more than that. Thanks for the resume of things you've been right on, was really relevant to the topic....

Why are you talkig about Von Wafer's career in its entirety when all I, and a lot of others, are saying is that given his skillset, he could have been put in at an earlier time to disrupt Indy's run. You know, the same way Duhon's aggressive play sparked our 2nd quarter run and disrupted Indy. Or, you know, the same way Earl Clark did against Indy less than a week ago with his defense.

Just admit you don't know what you're talking about and let it go. Or stay silent if you can't swallow your pride and admit it.

[minimoe]

Bensational you werent talking about me were you?? I was just asking if Howard got booed at all during the game because I didnt get to see it.?.?.? I wasnt arguing any points

[Bensational]

Bensational you werent talking about me were you?? I was just asking if Howard got booed at all during the game because I didnt get to see it.?.?.? I wasnt arguing any points

Lol, no dude, not at all. I was talkin to maginno.

[maginno]

Lol, I have never read a post that screams "I don't know what I'm talking about, I didn't watch the game but I'm goin to argue anyway" more than that. Thanks for the resume of things you've been right on, was really relevant to the topic....

Ben I would have thought you had the sense to leave this topic be after that blow out we just experienced in which WAFER GOT MUCH MORE BURN.

It PROVED your arguments total nonsense. Both Clark and Wafer got substantial minutes through three quarters and still going into the fourth we were down nearly 20 points. Did you watch that that game Ben. ? Good then want to tell us that that was not a blowout despite the end score. Go ahead and make me laugh.

Proves point blank you do not know what you are talking about when you claimed that Wafer's energy would change the out come of a game.

As for me I know you won't admit that the facts in that game show CLEARLY that you have no clue about what you were talking about. But facts don't lie and sorry they add to the list you didn't like of things I was right about. Playing Von and Clark does not change a 21 point loss no more than them playing made tonight a win.

You were just dead wrong. If the starters don't turn up then Wafers magical "energy" does not a win make. I'd rather the facts scream who knows basketball as they do quite clearly there.

[minimoe]

Bensational you werent talking about me were you?? I was just asking if Howard got booed at all during the game because I didnt get to see it.?.?.? I wasnt arguing any points

Lol, no dude, not at all. I was talkin to maginno.

Ok cool lol

[Bensational]

Proves point blank you do not know what you are talking about when you claimed that Wafer's energy would change the out come of a game.

what i said was the whole outcome of a game could change dramatically. do you want to go back and rewrite history and tell me that Earl Clark didn't make a difference against Indy previously? do you? please, try that one.

how'd the all bench unit do in the 2nd? they held their own. when did Phili make their two biggest runs tonight? in the 3rd, against the starters. in the 4th, against an all bench squad. what did Stan do to adjust to these runs? nothing.

if you really think that the timing of adjustments doesn't make a difference, then you don't know squat about basketball. if you don't think any player is capable of making a dramatic impact on the game then and there, positive or negative, then you don't know squat about basketball.

As for me I know you won't admit that the facts in that game show CLEARLY that you have no clue about what you were talking about. But facts don't lie and sorry they add to the list you didn't like of things I was right about. Playing Von and Clark does not change a 21 point loss no more than them playing made tonight a win.

lol... so it doesn't matter who you play, the games are just decided by the basketball gods? or do you think Von and Earl are just incapable of making an impact on a game? in either case, you're either crazy or you're wrong - you decide.

the fact that you never reference plays within games, or even reference player attributes, short of a quote from a coach/gm/journalist, demonstrates that you probably rarely watch the games and are in fact more interested in arguments and the sideshow of the NBA. you really, really don't have a clue, and you've been blatantly exposed.

[maginno]

the fact that you never reference plays within games, or even reference player attributes, short of a quote from a coach/gm/journalist, demonstrates that you probably rarely watch the games and are in fact more interested in arguments and the sideshow of the NBA. you really, really don't have a clue, and you've been blatantly exposed.

Sorry Ben It s you that have been EXTREMELY exposed for the no basketball knowledge guy that you are. You made a claim and as fate would have it it was tested in the very next game.

Your theory was tested . it was weighed and it was found by the pure facts to be wanting. Case closed. Trying to go back to previous games in which the whole team was not in a funk just shows how little you grasp. So my point has been proven. Yack on. It won't change the minutes Von and Clark played and the no result on the win column that it provided. Stan' vindicated you proven to have no Bball knowledge over an NBA coach. Why am I not surprised? I love it when proof locks down an debaters arguments and I didn't have to wait long on that one. Its like Stan heard you and said Okay watch what happens when they do get the minutes - oh oh - same thing. Magic (pun intended) "energy" will make us win theory goes poof.

I nowhere made up that Von and Clark could not make a difference to any game but specifically stated that in a drubbing like our last two games it would have made no difference to the results and I was proven right. The silly thing about your claims that show you know no basketball is that Von wafers skill set is lopsided to offense. He is no game changer on Defense. I'd more give you a point on Clark. That said his NBA stats don't lie. he has sparks but is far from a prolific scorer as of yet. Even sillier is you constantly ducking and running from his career and what they indicate. In your silly tirade to know better than NBA coaches (what a laugher) you skip over his numbers ( and yes oh basketball deficient one they do count on an offensive skilledplayer) and the fact that he has played for SEVERAL NBA coaches. Von is no game changer even with his 8 points last night . SO give me a break about your tired , now totally disproven yarn about him being a player that can at the right moment turn a game around. Stan ha s no reason to turn to him for that in any reasonable persons mind. Had Von mastered that skillset he would not be on his 6th NBA team in as many years

All you have is some yacking about woulda coulda Stan shuolda but the numbers and the facts are all on my side and they all speak to Stan knowing better than you..

Finally may I

at you immeasurably weak attempt to claim that because I don't watch games glued to my laptop like you do that I don't watch games. How would I know that Reddick picked up contact lenses and put them on the announcers table in the last game. Did any news reporter cover that anywhere? or that Dwight was sitting there in the fourth quarter hands stretched out on a chair with a look that said he didn't even care? Too silly. You are a total joke. Your point about IF Von had played it would have created energy that propelled the team to win was a total fail so you try to run off into some side alley argument that I don't watch games because I don't write play by plays on internet forums.

too desperate.

[Bensational]

the fact that you never reference plays within games, or even reference player attributes, short of a quote from a coach/gm/journalist, demonstrates that you probably rarely watch the games and are in fact more interested in arguments and the sideshow of the NBA. you really, really don't have a clue, and you've been blatantly exposed.

Sorry Ben It s you that have been EXTREMELY exposed for the no basketball knowledge guy that you are. You made a claim and as fate would have it it was tested in the very next game.

Your theory was tested . it was weighed and it was found by the pure facts to be wanting. Case closed. Trying to go back to previous games in which the whole team was not in a funk just shows how little you grasp. So my point has been proven. Yack on. It won't change the minutes Von and Clark played and the no result on the win column that it provided. Stan' vindicated you proven to have no Bball knowledge over an NBA coach. Why am I not surprised? I love it when proof locks down an debaters arguments and I didn't have to wait long on that one. Its like Stan heard you and said Okay watch what happens when they do get the minutes - oh oh - same thing. Magic (pun intended) "energy" will make us win theory goes poof.

I nowhere made up that Von and Clark could not make a difference to any game but specifically stated that in a drubbing like our last two games it would have made no difference to the results and I was proven right. The silly thing about your claims that show you know no basketball is that Von wafers skill set is lopsided to offense. He is no game changer on Defense. I'd more give you a point on Clark. That said his NBA stats don't lie. he has sparks but is far from a prolific scorer as of yet. Even sillier is you constantly ducking and running from his career and what they indicate. In your silly tirade to know better than NBA coaches (what a laugher) you skip over his numbers ( and yes oh basketball deficient one they do count on an offensive skilledplayer) and the fact that he has played for SEVERAL NBA coaches. Von is no game changer even with his 8 points last night . SO give me a break about your tired , now totally disproven yarn about him being a player that can at the right moment turn a game around. Stan ha s no reason to turn to him for that in any reasonable persons mind. Had Von mastered that skillset he would not be on his 6th NBA team in as many years

All you have is some yacking about woulda coulda Stan shuolda but the numbers and the facts are all on my side and they all speak to Stan knowing better than you..

Finally may I

at you immeasurably weak attempt to claim that because I don't watch games glued to my laptop like you do that I don't watch games. How would I know that Reddick picked up contact lenses and put them on the announcers table in the last game. Did any news reporter cover that anywhere? or that Dwight was sitting there in the fourth quarter hands stretched out on a chair with a look that said he didn't even care? Too silly. You are a total joke. Your point about IF Von had played it would have created energy that propelled the team to win was a total fail so you try to run off into some side alley argument that I don't watch games because I don't write play by plays on internet forums.

too desperate.