After Ricky Rubio, Jonas Valanciunas=International Superstar

[sisibilio]

Watch out for Nikola Mirotic too; 23rd overall pick this year who's rights are currently owned by the Bulls.

It's amazing how far the game has come outside of the U.S. in just 20 short years. In '92, the best US basketball players beat teams by 60 without really breaking a sweat. This year, a team that at least comes close to comparing with the Dream Team will probably have to fight pretty hard to beat Spain, and there's plenty of other good teams there too.

Mirotic is good but i don't think he's a potential all star like rubio or Valanciunas.
It's a little OT but i'm sure a unified Yugoslavia would have given the dream team a run for his money in Barcelona.

[yowyOw]

You think his ceiling is higher than 16/11/3/2? Seriously?

Oh, absolutely. Elite size, elite motor, very good athleticism, great fundamentals, very good defender, smart offensive player, who's shooting 85-90% from the free throw line, which suggests he's gonna have a mid range game at some point, if not early, and he can finish with both hands around the rim. I think he should have gone 2nd, at the very least (probably 1st) and i don't see any limitations that would stop him from being a 20/10 player in his prime.

Of course, that wouldn't necessary mean anything, probably dozens of players put up 20/10 in this league without elite impact, but what i believe, is that he can be a game changer. Not talking about Duncan, Shaq, or anything crazy like that, but someone like Gasol, i really think is an achievable goal for him. Not in the same way, obviously, but i think he has a chance to make an impact like that, in his prime.

The way you're describing, one may think you are talking about a "made" player. Marc Gasol was not only dominant in Europe, he was the next level. Plus, he arrived to the NBA with 23/24yo.

Jonas has potential, but let's not overhype him above what he currently is.

.

[Johnny Firpo]

I really like the kid, i think his game will translate beautifully to the NBA, just like Ricky's, hopefully he can make an immediate impact. Very good prospect, great motor, underrated post game, excellent defender, and a 85-90% percent free throw shooter, which suggests he can have a serious mid range game in a couple years.

At the very least he should be a very good second option in his prime, and borderline all-star, putting up 16/11/3/2, or something like that, but i think his ceiling is definitely higher, the kid was born in 92. Of course there is always a chance he flops, but i don't see it. He's a gym rat, he'll do anything to succeed.

I always love posts like this. AT THE VERY LEAST! he'll average 16/11/3?! Is that 3 blocks? Because if so, I see nobody in the last 10 years that has put that up. And if it is 3 assists, 2 blocks, Duncan, Shaq and garnett only 3 in the last 10. So, at the least, he's a HOF.

He's a good passer, and a good shotblocker, this is why i said 3 assists, and 2 block. I'm sure many players did something like 1,8 blocks, and 2,8 assists. Also, Duncan, Shaq, and Garnett are not in the hall of fame, because they had seasons where they averaged 3 assists, and 2 blocks, it's perfectly reasonable to think someone can do that, and still getting nowhere near the hall of fame. But all right, let's say i see him putting up 15/10/2,5/1,8 in his prime at the very least, if he turns out the player many think he will. Is that all right?

[sisibilio]

Oh, absolutely. Elite size, elite motor, very good athleticism, great fundamentals, very good defender, smart offensive player, who's shooting 85-90% from the free throw line, which suggests he's gonna have a mid range game at some point, if not early, and he can finish with both hands around the rim. I think he should have gone 2nd, at the very least (probably 1st) and i don't see any limitations that would stop him from being a 20/10 player in his prime.

Of course, that wouldn't necessary mean anything, probably dozens of players put up 20/10 in this league without elite impact, but what i believe, is that he can be a game changer. Not talking about Duncan, Shaq, or anything crazy like that, but someone like Gasol, i really think is an achievable goal for him. Not in the same way, obviously, but i think he has a chance to make an impact like that, in his prime.

The way you're describing, one may think you are talking about a "made" player. Marc Gasol was not only dominant in Europe, he was the next level. Plus, he arrived to the NBA with 23/24yo.

Jonas has potential, but let's not overhype him above what he currently is.

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Marc Gasol was playing in the spanish 4th division when he was 19, he wasn't dominant really until his last season in Spain. So what?

[WallabyPie]

No, not really. Upside is Gortat IMO

You weren't a believer from day one, for some odd reason, you don't like this kid. I don't get it, what your problem with him, as a prospect? What's not to like?

Mufasa is just a badass wannabe. Hating on kids.

Oh, so comparing him to Gortat is some kind of disrespect for Valanciunas? Nice.

[Dr Pepper]

Hoes does this guy compare to a young Darko?

[Dr Positivity]

No, not really. Upside is Gortat IMO

You weren't a believer from day one, for some odd reason, you don't like this kid. I don't get it, what your problem with him, as a prospect? What's not to like?

Gortat is a great player, he's putting up 15, 10, and 2 on a good % in 31 mpg and has a 21 PER.

I don't dislike JVal, in fact I usually like players who approach the game like him, I just think he's been miscategorized by a lot of people

A lot of people compare him to Biedrins and Tyson Chandler who are elite athletes. Valanciunas is a passable but not dynamic NBA athlete. The fact that people insisted on calling JVal a plus NBA athlete unnerved me all of last year. He's as athletic as Varejao and Zaza

A lot of people threw around comparisons to Pau Gasol even though JVal is not a post up threat and is uncomfortable anytime he makes physical contact with a player. JVal is horrible at setting screens, boxing out and setting up shots in the post. He simply is not strong enough or comfortable enough making contact in any situation at this moment. Turning 20 this year I think it's a major stretch to say he can turn into Pau in the post. He can turn into Pau like Anthony Davis can turn into Pau

His basketball IQ is average at best, he's had fouling and reading the speed of the game problems in the past and have average offensive instincts. His rebounding is not as big a lock as his reputation suggests because if you watch him, he relies on his length and seeing where the ball's going to get them but sucks at using his body to block out opponents, and he can barely jump. That's why he's a great offensive rebounder and decent defensive rebounder. I'm not that impressed by Valanciunas' rebounding fundamentals

I think he has potential offensively to be a pick and roll/pick and pop option who can shoot the midrange shot, and is usable finishing inside if he's in good position, which is basically Gortat's offensive game. He's as athletic and tall as Gortat and if he bulks up that's probably the biggest he can get. Rebounding and block numbers at Gortat's level sounds good to me as well. I think Gortat is a phenomnenal comparison for his upside and that would make him a great pick at #5 in the 2011 draft when a lot of B level guards (who are much easier to get on the market than a starting center) were available. But if he ends up being an Amir Johnson/Zaza type 3rd big it wouldn't surprise me wahtsoever, I think he's a 7 footer with average athleticism, skill and basketball IQ but who plays hard

[edquantum]

Marc Gasol?

2005-2006: Winterthur F.C. Barcelona (ACB): Euroleague: 13 games: 3.0ppg, 1.3rpg, 2FGP: 73.6%, 3PT: 100%, FT: 52.9%; Spanish League: 21 games: 3.1ppg, 2.8rpg.

At the age of 21.

[Johnny Firpo]

The way you're describing, one may think you are talking about a "made" player. Marc Gasol was not only dominant in Europe, he was the next level. Plus, he arrived to the NBA with 23/24yo.

Jonas has potential, but let's not overhype him above what he currently is.

I don't agree with you, and i remember what people though about Marc Gasol when he was 19-20. You know what was the consensus about him? He was Pau's chubby, talentless brother, who people thought will never make it to the NBA. Marc was a late bloomer. And no, i didn't talk about Jonas as a made player, i was talking about him, as a prospect, about his attributes. Obviously, there is always a chance he won't make it for some reason, but he has much better tools, and potential, than Mark had imo, and doing much better, than Mark did at that age.

I checked, Mark barely played at 20 in the Euroleague, while Jonas already made an impact last year, as an 18 years old. Now obviously, development curve is hard to predict, but i don't see how anybody can predict he'll never amount to anything. He's not a hall of fame prospect, but he's very-very good prospect, who frankly should be a multiple all-star, and i think it should be considered a failure, if he doesn't achieve that. I'm not really sure why some people are surprised about my posts, i mean, drafting a guy this high, usually means the team hopes he will be a franchise talent.

[Ein44sol]

I saw Jonas play at the european under 19 and he was dominant against his peers the same age as him. It´s borderline stupidity to at least not admit that he has great potential and I for one pick him to be quite successful

[dagger]

Here's one way to stop him.

[yowyOw]

Marc Gasol?

2005-2006: Winterthur F.C. Barcelona (ACB): Euroleague: 13 games: 3.0ppg, 1.3rpg, 2FGP: 73.6%, 3PT: 100%, FT: 52.9%; Spanish League: 21 games: 3.1ppg, 2.8rpg.

At the age of 21.

You can't read, can you? I've said "when Marc came to the NBA" he was MEGA-dominant in Spain (toughest league in Europe). And by then, he was still (...) fat.

And that's why I think JVal should stay a couple of years or 3 more in Europe. Plus, those Gasol's stats are not reliable. He played very few minutes and was forced to leave FC Barcelona because coach Ivanovic never had faith in him.

At least, if you're going to post stats, describe the context (and the minutes played!).

.

[Dr Positivity]

He got drafted between Tristan Thompson and Jan Vesely (two obvious energy role player is obvious) guys, #5 last year was not enough to guarantee all-star or bust talent. Last year saw a weird order because lot of the most dynamic prospects in last year's draft (Knight, Kemba, Jimmer, etc.) were PG/SG combos which are all over the place in the NBA and most do close to the same job, while 6'10 athletic SFs like Vesely or legitimate rebounding/finishing bigs like Thompson or JVal, are not. Kind of like why NFL teams would rather draft OLine or Dline players instead of RBs in the 1st round. You can find someone on the market close to as good as the best RB prospect in most drafts so it's not worth it compared to getting a defensive position player that you have to draft to find. Even if your RB in 3 years ends up more important than a random DLine player, it was a smart move, maybe

[sisibilio]

A lot of people threw around comparisons to Pau Gasol even though JVal is not a post up threat and is uncomfortable anytime he makes physical contact with a player. JVal is horrible at setting screens, boxing out and setting up shots in the post. He simply is not strong enough or comfortable enough making contact in any situation at this moment. Turning 20 this year I think it's a major stretch to say he can turn into Pau in the post. He can turn into Pau like Anthony Davis can turn into Pau

He's A LOT more comfortable and physical in the post that Pau was at his age. When he was in Barcelona and even his first couple years in Memphis Pau was almost strictly a face to the basket player.

[Johnny Firpo]

...

I respect your opinion, but i don't agree with it at all. First of all, Gortat is an excellent athlete. He's not elite, but he's right in the next tier. He's also a late bloomer, and was nowhere close to Jonas at the age of 19-20. He was also never a great free throw shooter.

People fail to realize, why is it so unique, that this kid is shooting consistently around 80%, sometimes 85% or even 90% from the charity stripe. It's obviously a good thing, to be that effective from the line, but it's especially interesting, because it suggests, he can be an elite mid range shooter some day.

And to a guy who can finish that strong on pick&rolls, and attacks the rim like that, making free throws like that, can automatically mean 12-14 points a game, maybe as early as his rookie season. Without any kind of shot making from mid range. People fail to realize this kid's offensive potential is blatantly underrated.

I also don't agree about his defense. He fouls a lot, because...well, because every single young big man fouls a lot. It's obviously correctable. Also don't understand why you worry about his rebounding. Didn't he rebound well too in the Euroleague, against bigger, fundamentally sound big men, who are very good at boxing out? I believe he did.

Most of the things you don't like, is because he's not yet strong enough. A 19 year old, 6'11 kid, with a 7'4 wingspan, too skinny? How could that happen? I mean, come on, of course he's gonna get stronger, and bigger, and then he obviously won't need to outjump, or outhustle people all the time, and his back to the basket game will improve.

P.S: I never said his post game will be like Pau's, i was talking about impact. If he's gonna do it, he's definitely gonna do it in a different style, which i even hope honestly, because Gasol always lacked that mean streak, that could have made him a superstar. I don't think Jonas has that kind of potential that Pau had btw, but i think he's a prospect with almost zero bust chance.

[sikma42]

Made it a point to watch this guy last summer. Cavs and T-Wolves and Jazz will regret not taking him this year. He is a hard to find piece in the NBA. He will be a really good player and has great potential. He scored in the post effortlessly on Serge Ibaka this summer and finishes well around the basket.

I can only imagine what a front line of Jonas and Love would look like with Ricky running the show. Would have be crazy to have that lob/finishing/offensive reboudning threat alongside Love. That would have been the move that put them over the top for the furture imo. They look really good now, but they would have a chance at great with a big like this...

[edquantum]

Marc Gasol?

2005-2006: Winterthur F.C. Barcelona (ACB): Euroleague: 13 games: 3.0ppg, 1.3rpg, 2FGP: 73.6%, 3PT: 100%, FT: 52.9%; Spanish League: 21 games: 3.1ppg, 2.8rpg.

At the age of 21.

You can't read, can you? I've said "when Marc came to the NBA" he was MEGA-dominant in Spain (toughest league in Europe). And by then, he was still (...) fat.

And that's why I think JVal should stay a couple of years or 3 more in Europe. Plus, those Gasol's stats are not reliable. He played very few minutes and was forced to leave FC Barcelona because coach Ivanovic never had faith in him.

At least, if you're going to post stats, describe the context (and the minutes played!).

.

Yes in ACB his stats was good enough on a weaker team. But not sure if serious about that MEGA dominance thing. He also played in euro competition that year and if 13ppg with 6rb in ULEB cup is a pure dominance then i don't know what to say.

[sikma42]

Marc Gasol?

2005-2006: Winterthur F.C. Barcelona (ACB): Euroleague: 13 games: 3.0ppg, 1.3rpg, 2FGP: 73.6%, 3PT: 100%, FT: 52.9%; Spanish League: 21 games: 3.1ppg, 2.8rpg.

At the age of 21.

You can't read, can you? I've said "when Marc came to the NBA" he was MEGA-dominant in Spain (toughest league in Europe). And by then, he was still (...) fat.

And that's why I think JVal should stay a couple of years or 3 more in Europe. Plus, those Gasol's stats are not reliable. He played very few minutes and was forced to leave FC Barcelona because coach Ivanovic never had faith in him.

At least, if you're going to post stats, describe the context (and the minutes played!).

.

Yes in ACB his stats was good enough on a weaker team. But not sure if serious about that MEGA dominance thing. He also played in euro competition that year and if 13ppg with 6rb in ULEB cup is a pure dominance then i don't know what to say.

the games I saw he didn't play many minutes for some reason. But when he was out there he was the best player by far on his team. he looked like he is a starting center in the NBA right now...Prob would step in and be a top 10 center in the league at age 20.

these are only highlights of one of the games I saw but it gives some idea about his talent level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tX8mJ_el6c

All Im saying is that Cleveland, Utah and Minnesota messed up.

[Relentless88]

He's going to be really, really good. If I were to re-do the 2011 draft, I'd take him #2 after Irving.

[LithuanianOne]

Jonas indeed has a mid range jump shot, however, he doesn't get many touches, hence he can't show it off. The coach isn't running any plays for him as of now, but when he was made the vocal point of the offence during 2011 U-19 tournament he was taking jumpshots and their form looked really nice. He has a pretty soft touch for a big man. I strongly believe that if everything goes well he should have a reliable jumper in 3-4 years.