After Ricky Rubio, Jonas Valanciunas=International Superstar

[sca]

However, weren't you the same guy that wanted Kanter in the draft? People were calling shades of Aruajo way before he even stepped on the floor. Can't say they were wrong.

LOL come on now, Kanter proved that he's far better than Araujo with his play so far. The only reason he doesn't get minutes is the Jazz's logjam in frontcourt.

[andyo]

LOL come on now, Kanter proved that he's far better than Araujo with his play so far. The only reason he doesn't get minutes is the Jazz's logjam in frontcourt.

I'll admit he's far better than Aruajo but even given the small sample size of games/minutes hes played, I maintain that he lacks the length, athleticism to be a viable defensive center in this league. People got offended at when I said his ceiling was Al Jefferson.

[sca]

LOL come on now, Kanter proved that he's far better than Araujo with his play so far. The only reason he doesn't get minutes is the Jazz's logjam in frontcourt.

I'll admit he's far better than Aruajo but even given the small sample size of games/minutes hes played, I maintain that he lacks the length, athleticism to be a viable defensive center in this league. People got offended at when I said his ceiling was Al Jefferson.

Except Kanter is already a better defender than Big Al. Probably better at rebounding, too, but too small of a sample size.

[Fran Vasquez]

valanciunas has something that not all lithuanian players have, appart from skill conditions and knowledge of the game, he has passion. val and mirotic are players that will do nice things for their nba teams (raptors and bulls fan rejoice), how far will they go i dont know, but i would say, probably further than the last batch of euros that came inmediately before rubio

Also you cant really compare them, they are pretty unique, val is pau gasolish in some things, mirotic is bodiroga lite, but both are pretty unique

[MVP Rose]

He will be a beast.

[pass first]

The guy here already said

Marc Gasol was not only dominant in Europe, he was the next level.

And its just getting weirder...

During his last year in Europe, Marc Gasol averaged 13.6 ppg. (64FG%) 6.6 rpg. 2.5 apg. 1.4 bpg. in 27 min. per game in the Eurocup.

Jonas is currently averaging 10 ppg. (60FG%); 7.7 rpg. 0.8 apg. 1.7bpg. in 23 minutes per game., 12.3 ppg. 10.7 rpg. in 27 mpg. in the second round.

Those are very similar stat lines, VAL numbers looks even better IMO, and he is not a big fat 23 year old, he is 19 and is nowhere close to his prime body and strength.

If Jonas reaches Gortat's level on his prime, that may be alright, but I will be really disappointed... Saying that his ceiling/upside is Marcin Gortat is ridiculous. He is best Euro big prospect in recent history.

You are the one being ridiculous.

That's some weak sauce retort right there.

You called Gasol dominant and the next level. He called you out, the numbers don't lie.
Apparently ridiculing him is your argument?

Jonas won't be stuck behing Howard or anything so his career should evolve quicker but really (to not sound "ridiculous") he is very unlikely to say the least to be better than Gortat.

First of all, Gortat has turned into a fringe all star center in a short time (in the East he'd have a shot at the back up spot imo). You could argue even he himself is only scratching the surface of his A game. It's not bad to become as good as Gortat, especially if you think had Gortat started 6 seasons in the NBA already up this point, imagine how good he would have been then (and perceived to be).

Age is not a skill, that's a condition. Being young and good doesn't meant you'll get much much better with age.

Are you implying experience is a non-factor in being effective or becoming better in the NBA?

I don't care about numbers, those won't translate to NBA and are almost irrelevant.

Free throw % and rebound rate translate pretty well to the NBA usually. And both are superb.

And what if his numbers would suck? Would you hold it against him?

Also, this remark really exposes your double standard between Valanciunas and Marc Gasol, who was supposedly dominating and the next level with the roughly a similar type of statline.

You better watch him playing. I did. For someone who is supposed to dominate NBA in nine months he is a no-show. That's nothing against him rather a knock against that ridiculous OP's statement.

The OP called him an international superstar but that's not the common tone of this thread, so it's really not true that everybody is expecting him to dominate right of the bat.

On the other hand being best euro prospect for a long time doesn't win games.

Wolves seem to be winning more games than usual..

[Yoga]

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/02/01/ra ... -out-big-v

Colangelo and executive vice-president of basketball operations Ed Stefanski watched Valanciunas put up a strong outing against Bennetton Treviso (17 points, 10 rebounds and three blocks by his count) and saw him go through a spirited practice, despite being tired.

“He had a spectacular game when we were there and also a very solid practice. They had just come in from playing a game in the Czech Republic,” he said.

Getting face time with Valanciunas — a dinner, a chance to discuss what needs to be worked on and what to expect as the summer approaches — made for “an extremely positive trip.”

Colangelo said Valanciunas, selected fifth overall by the club, has “gotten a little bit bigger physically” and “a little more fluid inside.”

[Relentless88]

Shooting FTs at 88% and being among the all time leaders in Euro League rebounding rate are skills that should translate well to the NBA game.

No doubt he needs to get stronger, and I'm sure that's what BC talked about yesterday.

His length and athleticism is especially intriguing. After Irving, he is the 2nd most interesting prospect from the past draft IMO. Will he pan out? Of course we don't know until he plays an NBA game, but the tools are definitely there.

Also lack of basketball IQ? Where on earth did you get that? I'll admit he is at times poor at setting screens, but that's something that can be coached.

[Yoga]

I agree with Relentless88

[nelabai]

Gortat would be good. He's a 15 and 10 guy in this league!

But Jonas has so much more upside. First of all Jonas is longer, looks more fluid, quicker of his feet, has softer touch around the rim, has natural feel for scoring the basketball.

20 year old Gortat was more powerful than 19 year old Jonas, but Martin was a stiffie, robotic, had no offense, no feel for the game at all. quote from his predraft reports: "Watching him, it’s pretty obvious that the game doesn’t come easy to him. That’s why it’s rather difficult to picture him developing his offensive game to a good enough degree to become something more than a garbage man."

Boy got all the potential in the world and is a gym rat too. Will be exiting to watch his growth into a solid NBA player.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Did Gortat work with Ewing, too? Or was he just Dwight's private coach?

[BillyGM]

Did Gortat work with Ewing, too? Or was he just Dwight's private coach?

He and Lopez worked out with The Dream.

[Dr Positivity]

I never said his ceiling is Krstic

I said his ceiling is Gortat months before last year's draft

His ceiling is higher than Gortat but projecting as good as Gortat is now is not a bad comparison. Gortat is a very good and underrated center.

However, weren't you the same guy that wanted Kanter in the draft? People were calling shades of Aruajo way before he even stepped on the floor. Can't say they were wrong.

Enes Kanter is having a pretty good rookie season. He's been one of the best rebounders per minute in the league. Coming along offensively for a guy who didn't play college

[sisibilio]

I don't care about numbers, those won't translate to NBA and are almost irrelevant. You better watch him playing. I did. For someone who is supposed to dominate NBA in nine months he is a no-show. That's nothing against him rather a knock against that ridiculous OP's statement. He is not bad, his physical abilities are there but he does not have an impact you would expect. That's ok, he can still succeed in NBA and even if he doesn't it wasn't a bad decision from Raptors as they weren't going nowhere at that time anyway. He is a top 5 pick so he is guaranteed to get his chances and have a name because of that. On the other hand being best euro prospect for a long time doesn't win games.

You're just making stuff up.
Who has said he is going to dominate the NBA next season?
All the "apologists" like myself are saying is that he is the most talented big man in europe since Pau Gasol, what will he end up nobody knows but setting his ceiling as a serviceable center in the NBA has no sense.
And if you think he doesn't impact the game, maybe you should watch a few more games.

[NiL8r87]

Are people complaining about a prospect being compared to Kristic stat-wise?
Pre-injury Kristic was a legit 18/7 dude
Thats pretty legit

Krstic had defensive shortcomings, he was athletically lacking for an NBA big, he also was a below average rebounder. Val is projected to have none of these problems as a pro.

Well ignoring defense because that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, are raptors fans looking for at Val hopefully averaging like 11 and 11? Basically Biedrins stats when he was good?

Val has way more potential than 11ppg. Any big that shoots FT at the percentage he does, and with his scoring efficiency, screams much more than 11 and definitely more than even the 15pg that Mufasa suggested his ceiling was.

[Dr Positivity]

Raptors fans arguing with Raptors fans. Why is Mufusa not allowed to have his own opinion. JV hasn't played in the NBA so he could well suck in the NBA. It is *posible*. Let the man have his opinion and drop the elitist attitudes.

I'm fine with the debating. I don't think it's an extravagant opinion to look at a classic energy big man who hits the glass and finishes around the basket and that's about it, and saying hey, there's probably a good chance he'll either be that or a rich man's version of that in the NBA too. Instead of like, a superstar post player he shares no resemblence to at all right now

If there was a large contigent of RealGM posters who insisted Harrison Barnes was going to be Paul Pierce or Clyde Drexler and that it was an insult to compare him to a limited on ball player like Luol Deng, I'd probably spend just as much time arguing against them as it'd be just as illogical (The problem with the Barnes comparison sometimes to Pierce of course, is that Pierce is a wizard on the ball, has amazing footwork, and has great court vision and point skills, and Barnes just has the body type and shooting)

Personally I think the best comparison I've heard for Valanciunas is 7 foot tall Amir Johnson, which is exactly right, though of course 7 foot tall Amir is a different player (it bears to be seen whether Val actually plays that big though, as many players don't), especially if he develops a midrange jumpshot well

[Amish Mafioso]

People were calling shades of Aruajo way before he even stepped on the floor. Can't say they were wrong.

Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[Rhettmatic]

I'm fine with the debating. I don't think it's an extravagant opinion to look at a classic energy big man who hits the glass and finishes around the basket and that's about it, and saying hey, there's probably a good chance he'll either be that or a rich man's version of that in the NBA too. Instead of like, a superstar post player he shares no resemblence to at all right now

I know in the past you've said that your analyses are not based on watching players play, but YouTube and draft websites. Does that still hold for Valanciunas or have you actually seen him play now?

[Yoga]

Fans of Jonas V can sport these sigs via Turbo Zone (he makes the best sigs):










http://s750.photobucket.com/albums/xx14 ... 1QQtppZZ24

[UcanUwill]

You are the one being ridiculous. It would help to notice where I am from before lecturing me on european basketball. Jonas won't be stuck behing Howard or anything so his career should evolve quicker but really (to not sound "ridiculous") he is very unlikely to say the least to be better than Gortat. Age is not a skill, that's a condition. Being young and good doesn't meant you'll get much much better with age.

I don't care about numbers, those won't translate to NBA and are almost irrelevant. You better watch him playing. I did. For someone who is supposed to dominate NBA in nine months he is a no-show. That's nothing against him rather a knock against that ridiculous OP's statement. He is not bad, his physical abilities are there but he does not have an impact you would expect. That's ok, he can still succeed in NBA and even if he doesn't it wasn't a bad decision from Raptors as they weren't going nowhere at that time anyway. He is a top 5 pick so he is guaranteed to get his chances and have a name because of that. On the other hand being best euro prospect for a long time doesn't win games.

Well, first of all, I watched almost every single game he played since 2010.

Second. I never actually said he will DOMINATE NBA.

And finally. What do you expect from 19 year old? Yeah, age is not a skill. But at his age, he is more advanced than most of 19 year old big men ever was.
He put 30/15 on USA NCAA scrubs and they double teamed him even without the ball all game long, and some of those scrubs, who are light years behind Jonas, can end up as lottery picks this year, (Meyers Leonard, Patrick Young). If Jonas' ceilings is Gortat, whats those scrubs ceilings, Rafael Araujo?


I know Gortat comparison is not an insult. There is a chance he ends up smth Gortat alike. But his upside is much higher, at age 19 he is already dominant on boards, shows Noah like signs on defense, has amazing coordination and an exceptional basketball IQ. And hes just a project yet.