Official Speculation & Free Agency Thread (Pt X, Mods close)

[PeePee la Fritz]

You consider paying players like Iggy, J Smith, etc their ridiculous salaries if Dwight is here and you are competing for a title every year. Otherwise it does not make sense. Decisions like that handy cap your future. Look what Minny did with Love, they didnt give him the Max. I love that move, I like what they got going on up there right now.

[FFBlitzace]

PeePee, please cut back on the insults.

[rcklsscognition]

I did not know Iggy had a 3rd year, it said on trade machine it was 2 years. That changes my opinion a bit.

[PeePee la Fritz]

PeePee, please cut back on the insults.

They are all out of love. But ok since you asked nicely I will oblige. But it is going against my nature. I honestly do not intend malice with any of my posts/responses. They are just intended to provide a little levity and hopefully spark some immediate debate.

[PeePee la Fritz]

I did not know Iggy had a 3rd year, it said on trade machine it was 2 years. That changes my opinion a bit.

Dont get me wrong, I love Iggy as a player. I love everything he brings every night. I just do not believe Orlando is getting enough ready made talent back from NJ to justify spending that kind of money on Iggy or anyone for that matter who is not a perennial All Star. Now if Orlando was getting Bynum and Gasol and was able to somehow swing Iggy I would be all for it. That team would easily be top 3-4 in the East. The payroll would be ridiculous and I would cringe every time I thought about it, but hey its not my money.

[MagicFan32]

these trade ideas scare me. the magic org needs to wake up and realize once Dwight is gone we are NOT winning any championships in the next 3 years unless we got an amazing return like bynum and ellis or iggy. unlikely.

We need to blow it up, get our cap space and alot of picks. I am good with getting Bynum and picks right now. Lopez/brooks/several picks plus houstons is fine to. 3 top 15 picks possibly in a great draft and a great young talent in brooks to build around? works for me. add Davis or Drummond or PJ3, Rivers, Barnes, Henson etc. We'd be good for a long time

[MagicFan41]

You consider paying players like Iggy, J Smith, etc their ridiculous salaries if Dwight is here and you are competing for a title every year. Otherwise it does not make sense. Decisions like that handy cap your future. Look what Minny did with Love, they didnt give him the Max. I love that move, I like what they got going on up there right now.

They did give him the max $ didnt they? It was just a shorter contract length. HE was the one that wanted a player option on the 4th year so he could opt-out if he didn't like where the team was at as well. Unless you are simply referring to the fact they didn't give him the 5th year? I mean, that's not exactly some super-genius move. It gives them possibly an extra year of flexibility...but now he can pull a Dwight and possibly demand a trade after 2 years into his contract (same situation...4th year player option, forces team to consider trading him after only 2).

[PeePee la Fritz]

these trade ideas scare me. the magic org needs to wake up and realize once Dwight is gone we are NOT winning any championships in the next 3 years unless we got an amazing return like bynum and ellis or iggy. unlikely.

We need to blow it up, get our cap space and alot of picks. I am good with getting Bynum and picks right now. Lopez/brooks/several picks plus houstons is fine to. 3 top 15 picks possibly in a great draft and a great young talent in brooks to build around? works for me. add Davis or Drummond or PJ3, Rivers, Barnes, Henson etc. We'd be good for a long time

A big +1

[MagicFan41]

This logic reminds me of the south park episode mocking mormonism.....dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. Iggy is making $14 this year and set to make more each of the next 2-3 years. He is not an All Star! He makes the team this year because Philly deserves at least 1 with their record. You do not pay a player that kind of money on a lottery team. There is a minimum total salary requirment, but you have to resign Lopez probably at $10 per, Anderson at $6-$8 per, and fill out the rest of the roster. If the ultimate goal is a championship you do not hope to scrape together enough wins to barely make the playoffs every year and get knocked out by Miami and Chicago. You make smart financial decisions, hope you draft well, and try to eventually make a splash in free agency or trading some of your newly acquired young assets for a disgruntled star.

No, your logic is "dumb dumb dumb dumb". Look at who are title contenders at tell me which of them were built with your strategy:

Bulls -> from 1999 to 2007 had the #1 pick (Elton Brand), #4 (Marcuz Fizer), #7 (Chris Mihm), #4 (Eddy Curry), #2 (Jay Williams), #7 (Kirk Hinrich), #3 (Ben Gordon), #2 (Lamarcus Aldridge) #9 (Joakim Noah)
Then finally in 2008, (when they mustve had Pat Williams in the room and got the 1.7% chance they had to get the #1 pick), which turned out to be a super-stud (many #1 picks have not) and then they signed Boozer to a big contract in FA to complement he and Noah. So it took them basically 13 years of sucking to finally become title contenders despite having amazing draft pick after amazing draft pick.
Heat -> drafted Wade with #5 pick and then paired him with "overpaid" great role players, he won them a championship quickly....after the "overpaid" role players left, they were terrible (despite getting the #2 pick in Beasley) until his two Superfriend BFFs decided to team up with him in South Beach in free agency. One could argue they got lucky in getting Wade in that draft, as all the other guys in the draft haven't won a championship yet.
Lakers -> Stole Shaq from us because everyone is infatuated with LA. Stole Kobe on draft day because Charlotte is run by a bunch of doofuses. Stole Pau from Memphis because Jerry West is a clown. Built around all those pieces with role players in FA. Won tons of championships.
Mavs -> Went through years of getting high draft picks (#8 Randy White, #6 Doug Smith, #4 Jim Jackson, #4 Jamal Mashburn, #2 Jason Kidd) with little success. They then stole Nowitzki and Nash on draft day in a trade of Tractor Traylor and Pat Garrity for Dirk and Nash (originally picked #15 by Suns and had little impact). They didn't have to draft those guys with the #1 pick or anything. They then stupidly gave back up Nash. Became title contenders like 7 years later when Dirk's game matured and they put veterans around him through FA. Lost in Finals to Heat and then spent year after year underachieving big time and getting upset as a high seed....until they put the right FAs around him last year and they won it all
Nuggets (YES they are a contender this year) -> Drafted Melo and were always a tough team, but maybe only real contenders for a year or so...they surrounded Melo by great "overpaid" veteran roleplayers (Kenyon Martin, Chauncey, etc). They then traded their star player (our situation) to NYK, getting back tons of talent, no super-stars, and they have played like one of the best teams in the NBA since. Everyone will act like they aren't contenders, but they are. They are probably the 2nd best team in the West. They are the deepest team in the NBA. No superstars. Just great complementary pieces gained from gutting NYKs roster.
OKC -> Yes, this is probably the one example of teams in the past decade or so where a contender has been built entirely through the draft. They drafted perfectly 3 years in a row to get Durant, Westbrook, Harden. They also did well by drafting Ibaka with #24 pick. Obviously they have really good scouting (our draft history other than #1 pick isn't quite so historically good). This is a very rare example though

Other teams on fringe of maybe being contenders:

Memphis - had top picks year after year after year (#6 Bryant Reeves, #3 Abdur-Rahim, #4 Antonio Daniels, #2 Mike Bibby, #2 Steve Francis, #2 Stromile Swift, #6 Battier, #4 Drew Gooden), never a contender....then recently they drafted #4 Conley, #5 Kevin Love (who they traded on draft day for OJ Mayo), #2 Thabeet. The only reason they might be contenders is because they got Randolph (traded for our very own Q), Gay (traded from Houston for Battier), and Marc Gasol (who finally matured years later from trading his brother). They aren't contenders because of their picks, they are contenders because other teams made stupid moves to get them some of their stars.
LAC - I don't think we even have to recall the almost literally 30 years of getting top picks and still being the worst franchise in all of sports...then finally they lucked into Blake in the draft with the #1 pick, and Gordon with #7 pick. They luckily had Minny's top pick this year (from a Marco Jaric trade way back when) in order to package with Gordon in order to get CP3. They were also lucky to be in the big market of Los Angeles, otherwise CP3 probably wouldn't have agreed to opt-in. Deandre got draft #35, so not exactly a pick they got by sucking. So they became a combo of getting lucky with #1 pick, being in LA, and having a disgruntled star who wanted to go there. Not a typical recipe for building a team.
Spurs - Drafted arguably the best PF of all time (had #1 pick because their other superstar in David Robinson went down early with season-ending injury). Then drafted very late in the draft amazingly every year to get great role-players and international guys who hardly anybody had their eye on. Not exactly built by stockpiling great draft picks

There are a few other teams I suppose you could include in this conversation but this should mostly show the point I am trying to make. I had a post a little while back this season as well that detailed every single champion over the past 20 years, and show how that team was built, and basically none of them were built by stockpiling draft picks. For every team that becomes contenders through the draft, I can probably show you 5 that had the same recipe and failed miserably (Bulls for a decade, LAC for ages, Minnesota, Sacramento, Washington, Charlotte, Nets...etc etc).

[PeePee la Fritz]

[Reverse_Angle]

This logic reminds me of the south park episode mocking mormonism.....dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb. Iggy is making $14 this year and set to make more each of the next 2-3 years. He is not an All Star! He makes the team this year because Philly deserves at least 1 with their record. You do not pay a player that kind of money on a lottery team. There is a minimum total salary requirment, but you have to resign Lopez probably at $10 per, Anderson at $6-$8 per, and fill out the rest of the roster. If the ultimate goal is a championship you do not hope to scrape together enough wins to barely make the playoffs every year and get knocked out by Miami and Chicago. You make smart financial decisions, hope you draft well, and try to eventually make a splash in free agency or trading some of your newly acquired young assets for a disgruntled star.

No, your logic is "dumb dumb dumb dumb". Look at who are title contenders at tell me which of them were built with your strategy:

Bulls -> from 1999 to 2007 had the #1 pick (Elton Brand), #4 (Marcuz Fizer), #7 (Chris Mihm), #4 (Eddy Curry), #2 (Jay Williams), #7 (Kirk Hinrich), #3 (Ben Gordon), #2 (Lamarcus Aldridge) #9 (Joakim Noah)
Then finally in 2008, (when they mustve had Pat Williams in the room and got the 1.7% chance they had to get the #1 pick), which turned out to be a super-stud (many #1 picks have not) and then they signed Boozer to a big contract in FA to complement he and Noah. So it took them basically 13 years of sucking to finally become title contenders despite having amazing draft pick after amazing draft pick.
Heat -> drafted Wade with #5 pick and then paired him with "overpaid" great role players, he won them a championship quickly....after the "overpaid" role players left, they were terrible (despite getting the #2 pick in Beasley) until his two Superfriend BFFs decided to team up with him in South Beach in free agency. One could argue they got lucky in getting Wade in that draft, as all the other guys in the draft haven't won a championship yet.
Lakers -> Stole Shaq from us because everyone is infatuated with LA. Stole Kobe on draft day because Charlotte is run by a bunch of doofuses. Stole Pau from Memphis because Jerry West is a clown. Built around all those pieces with role players in FA. Won tons of championships.
Mavs -> Went through years of getting high draft picks (#8 Randy White, #6 Doug Smith, #4 Jim Jackson, #4 Jamal Mashburn, #2 Jason Kidd) with little success. They then stole Nowitzki and Nash on draft day in a trade of Tractor Traylor and Pat Garrity for Dirk and Nash (originally picked #15 by Suns and had little impact). They didn't have to draft those guys with the #1 pick or anything. They then stupidly gave back up Nash. Became title contenders like 7 years later when Dirk's game matured and they put veterans around him through FA. Lost in Finals to Heat and then spent year after year underachieving big time and getting upset as a high seed....until they put the right FAs around him last year and they won it all
Nuggets (YES they are a contender this year) -> Drafted Melo and were always a tough team, but maybe only real contenders for a year or so...they surrounded Melo by great "overpaid" veteran roleplayers (Kenyon Martin, Chauncey, etc). They then traded their star player (our situation) to NYK, getting back tons of talent, no super-stars, and they have played like one of the best teams in the NBA since. Everyone will act like they aren't contenders, but they are. They are probably the 2nd best team in the West. They are the deepest team in the NBA. No superstars. Just great complementary pieces gained from gutting NYKs roster.
OKC -> Yes, this is probably the one example of teams in the past decade or so where a contender has been built entirely through the draft. They drafted perfectly 3 years in a row to get Durant, Westbrook, Harden. They also did well by drafting Ibaka with #24 pick. Obviously they have really good scouting (our draft history other than #1 pick isn't quite so historically good). This is a very rare example though

Other teams on fringe of maybe being contenders:

Memphis - had top picks year after year after year (#6 Bryant Reeves, #3 Abdur-Rahim, #4 Antonio Daniels, #2 Mike Bibby, #2 Steve Francis, #2 Stromile Swift, #6 Battier, #4 Drew Gooden), never a contender....then recently they drafted #4 Conley, #5 Kevin Love (who they traded on draft day for OJ Mayo), #2 Thabeet. The only reason they might be contenders is because they got Randolph (traded for our very own Q), Gay (traded from Houston for Battier), and Marc Gasol (who finally matured years later from trading his brother). They aren't contenders because of their picks, they are contenders because other teams made stupid moves to get them some of their stars.
LAC - I don't think we even have to recall the almost literally 30 years of getting top picks and still being the worst franchise in all of sports...then finally they lucked into Blake in the draft with the #1 pick, and Gordon with #7 pick. They luckily had Minny's top pick this year (from a Marco Jaric trade way back when) in order to package with Gordon in order to get CP3. They were also lucky to be in the big market of Los Angeles, otherwise CP3 probably wouldn't have agreed to opt-in. Deandre got draft #35, so not exactly a pick they got by sucking. So they became a combo of getting lucky with #1 pick, being in LA, and having a disgruntled star who wanted to go there. Not a typical recipe for building a team.
Spurs - Drafted arguably the best PF of all time (had #1 pick because their other superstar in David Robinson went down early with season-ending injury). Then drafted very late in the draft amazingly every year to get great role-players and international guys who hardly anybody had their eye on. Not exactly built by stockpiling great draft picks

There are a few other teams I suppose you could include in this conversation but this should mostly show the point I am trying to make. I had a post a little while back this season as well that detailed every single champion over the past 20 years, and show how that team was built, and basically none of them were built by stockpiling draft picks. For every team that becomes contenders through the draft, I can probably show you 5 that had the same recipe and failed miserably (Bulls for a decade, LAC for ages, Minnesota, Sacramento, Washington, Charlotte, Nets...etc etc).

i enjoyed reading this all. you should call yourself lucky to draft a guy like Iggy with a late lottery pick, hell even with a top 10 pick. if they are giving you Iggy, you say thank you and stop acting like the accountant. then flip him for something else plus picks if you are so inclined.

i have no idea why people think we can draft some kind of big 3 in 5 seasons. unfortunately, it is gotta in 5-6 seasons or your initial rookie will be a 26 years old on his way to LA and you will still be tanking. also lets not forget after this season the nets' picks will be practically second rounders.

[ADRajX]

Was bored... checked the last pages of each Speculation thread/part

Just for reference, each page = 15 posts

So...

Part1 = 99 5/15 pages
Part2 = 100 8/15 pages
Part3 = 99 11/15 pages
Part4 = 99 2/15 pages
Part5 = 99 11/15 pages
Part6 = 90 12/15 pages
Part7 = 100 2/15 pages
Part8 = 99 14/15 pages
Part9 = 101 1/15 pages

890 6/15 pages total (from Part 1 through Part 9)

Add the 85 pages now in Part 10 (this thread) and it's 975 pages currently. So when we reach 100 pages in Part 10, we'll technically be 10 pages behind from reaching 1000 pages (which we all so dearly love to reach... ). So that will technically occur on the 10th page of Part XI (11).

Yep... well then... now it's time for me to get some sleep and do work in the morning. Night.

[PeePee la Fritz]

Thats just my nature. I hate seeing irrational spending/bad contracts. And under the new cba teams will be punished for bad contracts. DeVos and his billions won't be around forever, and the next owner probably won't want to lose $10 million per year. But who am I to criticize, I'm just the accountant

[MagicFan32]

Using the term title contender "this year" is a bit slanted.

What is the one surefire way, in the NBA to be good?

a superstar to build around

What's the easiest way to get one? Usually thru the draft.

You have to hope you get a high pick in a year, with a strong class.

This year is a VERY strong class.

We have to blow it up, unless as I said we can work magic and somehow grab Bynum AND a wing.

NJ presents the best scenario for long term success, in all likelyhood, screw Dwight he doesn't wanna be here and has acted a fool. Maybe we get a couple lotto picks, Brooks, Lopez and jump up in the draft. It's better for us to suck now, trade D12 at deadline to NJ and hope they lose and miss playoffs.

Maybe we get lucky and win the lotto? then we have Brookz and Lopez to put with either Drummond, PJ3, Or Davis. All of a sudden u have a great young core and TONS of capspace for the next few seasons.

I swear to god, if the Magic make a short sided trade, they will set themselves back 5 years.

[The Real Dalic]

Using the term title contender "this year" is a bit slanted.

What is the one surefire way, in the NBA to be good?

a superstar to build around

What's the easiest way to get one? Usually thru the draft.

You have to hope you get a high pick in a year, with a strong class.

This year is a VERY strong class.

We have to blow it up, unless as I said we can work magic and somehow grab Bynum AND a wing.

NJ presents the best scenario for long term success, in all likelyhood, screw Dwight he doesn't wanna be here and has acted a fool. Maybe we get a couple lotto picks, Brooks, Lopez and jump up in the draft. It's better for us to suck now, trade D12 at deadline to NJ and hope they lose and miss playoffs.

Maybe we get lucky and win the lotto? then we have Brookz and Lopez to put with either Drummond, PJ3, Or Davis. All of a sudden u have a great young core and TONS of capspace for the next few seasons.

I swear to god, if the Magic make a short sided trade, they will set themselves back 5 years.

I agree. but, for whatever reason, I think the Magic are gonna wait until AFTER the ASG, which sucks.

[WeAreVenom]

Using the term title contender "this year" is a bit slanted.

What is the one surefire way, in the NBA to be good?

a superstar to build around

What's the easiest way to get one? Usually thru the draft.

You have to hope you get a high pick in a year, with a strong class.

This year is a VERY strong class.

We have to blow it up, unless as I said we can work magic and somehow grab Bynum AND a wing.

NJ presents the best scenario for long term success, in all likelyhood, screw Dwight he doesn't wanna be here and has acted a fool. Maybe we get a couple lotto picks, Brooks, Lopez and jump up in the draft. It's better for us to suck now, trade D12 at deadline to NJ and hope they lose and miss playoffs.

Maybe we get lucky and win the lotto? then we have Brookz and Lopez to put with either Drummond, PJ3, Or Davis. All of a sudden u have a great young core and TONS of capspace for the next few seasons.

I swear to god, if the Magic make a short sided trade, they will set themselves back 5 years.

I agree. but, for whatever reason, I think the Magic are gonna wait until AFTER the ASG, which sucks.

Yeah, the wait sucks, but I think that's what we need to do.

We need to hold off on sending Howard to the Nets for as long as we can, so that their record doesn't improve too much.

Someone needs to tell Deron to calm the f*ck down, though. They need to be in tank mode for one more month.

[JBSouthpaw]

Yeah, the wait sucks, but I think that's what we need to do.

We need to hold off on sending Howard to the Nets for as long as we can, so that their record doesn't improve too much.

Someone needs to tell Deron to calm the f*ck down, though. They need to be in tank mode for one more month.

Yes!! can't we agree to the trade now with them? as long as they put Deron on the shelf with a bad pinky toe too? I want to keep them under 27 wins.

[jezzer45]

Doesnt the luxury cap go 2 or 3 to 1 within the next 2 years? if so magic need to spend smart in anticipation.

[rcklsscognition]

K Mart signed with the Clippers.

[PeePee la Fritz]

K Mart signed with the Clippers.

I grew up in Central Florida (Melbourne) and have been and will be a Magic fan for life, but now that I am in LA I find myself really enjoying Clipper basketball. Other then the game they lost last night (due mostly to the schedule) they are looking tremendous, and now with K Mart they no longer have to play Solomon Jones and Reggie Evans extended minutes. Watch out for this team. Del Negro doesn't know what he's doing, but Chris Paul and Billups pretty much coach the team. God would I love to see the Cips send Blake and DJ to Orlando for Howard. No way they go for it, Griffin is an animal with a much higher ceiling the Dwight. He is the reincarnation of Sean Kemp.......without the coke problem