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Wizards at Raptors GT

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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#121 » by JonathanJoseph » Sat Feb 4, 2012 4:27 am

dangermouse wrote:
JonathanJoseph wrote:
dangermouse wrote:Bro Wall made like 4 jumpers tonight...


Absolutely. Twas a virtual bonanza of jump shot artistry from Wall.

What is that on the year now? 7? 8?

Meanwhile, you can add the legendary Jose Calderon to the list of PGs that ate Wall's lunch.


Well, you said "a jumper". Your exaggeration and hyperbole when it comes to Wall hating is mind boggling. I wouldnt be suprised if you didnt even watch the game so I dont know why anyone should take any of your opinions seriously, Wall made at least 4 jumpers and was shooting well overall, he should have shot more...


What exactly qualifies as exaggeration and hyperbole? Is it hyperbole to say that Wall's current ORtg is so bad he's tied with Omer Asik, Jason Maxiell and Boris Diaw (who has been benched on the worst team in the NBA besides the Wizards)? Is it hyperbole to say that the Wizards are one of the worst offenses in NBA history?

Just wondering if that's hyperbole or fact.

Or is it believable that I don't even watch Wizards games and just check the box scores and come here to make things up for some arbitrary reason.

Wondering if that would be an exaggeration and hyperbole or a fact.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#122 » by Illuminaire » Sat Feb 4, 2012 4:30 am

JonathanJoseph wrote:
dangermouse wrote:Bro Wall made like 4 jumpers tonight...


Absolutely. Twas a virtual bonanza of jump shot artistry from Wall.

What is that on the year now? 7? 8?

Meanwhile, you can add the legendary Jose Calderon to the list of PGs that ate Wall's lunch.



Calderon was not as good as he seemed. What happened was that McGee and Lewis were absolutely trash on defense, and Calderon was getting wide open shooters or uncovered bigs on the block. I cannot overstate how ridiculously bad Javale and Lewis' "defense" was.

Jose also got a couple of easy assists when Wizards completely failed to get back in transition. Not saying Wall was the second coming of Gary Payton this game, he wasn't. But Calderon didn't score much and didn't really make any amazing passes.... he just had the gift of playing the most inept defensive frontcourt I've ever seen in person.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#123 » by hands11 » Sat Feb 4, 2012 5:14 am

closg00 wrote:
tontoz wrote:Mason needs to be cut. all he is good for is 3 point shooting and he can't even do that.


Been saying that from the jump, I didn't like the signing. There are a half-dozen hungry call-ups that could displace several of our players.


That has been my calling card the last few weeks. Easiest move to make. Open a spot so you can roll in some fresh talent. It will help spark the team. It is to easy for this group to get stall and they clearly need shooters. Why not evaluate talent and find some players that can shoot along the way that will help the players that are already here.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#124 » by dangermouse » Sat Feb 4, 2012 8:40 am

JonathanJoseph wrote:What exactly qualifies as exaggeration and hyperbole?


When you knocked Wall for "making a jumper", when in actual fact he made several. You were understating Wall's shooting tonight in the post i was referring to for the purposes of Wallbashing.

Is it hyperbole to say that Wall's current ORtg is so bad he's tied with Omer Asik, Jason Maxiell and Boris Diaw (who has been benched on the worst team in the NBA besides the Wizards)? Is it hyperbole to say that the Wizards are one of the worst offenses in NBA history?


No?

Or is it believable that I don't even watch Wizards games and just check the box scores and come here to make things up for some arbitrary reason.


Totally believable since your post was bashing Wall for his shooting, one of the things he actually did well tonight, for once. He should have taken more shots really... but then you probably would have lambasted him for that as well.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#125 » by JonathanJoseph » Sat Feb 4, 2012 9:55 am

dangermouse wrote:
JonathanJoseph wrote:What exactly qualifies as exaggeration and hyperbole?


When you knocked Wall for "making a jumper", when in actual fact he made several. You were understating Wall's shooting tonight in the post i was referring to for the purposes of Wallbashing.

Is it hyperbole to say that Wall's current ORtg is so bad he's tied with Omer Asik, Jason Maxiell and Boris Diaw (who has been benched on the worst team in the NBA besides the Wizards)? Is it hyperbole to say that the Wizards are one of the worst offenses in NBA history?


No?

Or is it believable that I don't even watch Wizards games and just check the box scores and come here to make things up for some arbitrary reason.


Totally believable since your post was bashing Wall for his shooting, one of the things he actually did well tonight, for once. He should have taken more shots really... but then you probably would have lambasted him for that as well.


It's telling that you are trying to find technical or gramatical differences as opposed to actually having substantive differences.

You think Wall should be taking more shots? From the outside or otherwise? After you conceded that Wall has one of the lowest ORtg in the league for starters? We're going to have to agree to disagree on that.

I'm willing to bet that if Blatche hit 3 jumpers in a row (much less total in a game) you wouldn't be saying he should have taken more shots.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#126 » by dangermouse » Sat Feb 4, 2012 10:30 am

*facepalm* No, it wasnt a grammatical or technical error, you were downplaying how many jumpers Wall had taken and hit which was a positive for this particular game.

Clearly, i mean in this one particular game. Wall isnt even an adequate shooter, i'm not disputing that. I'm not disputing his overall ORting. I wouldnt even try.

Wall hit a few good shots today, some jumpers, he went 6-10 from the floor.

I'm not saying I want him taking more shots OVERALL. I am glad he is holding back and playing more under control...

What I am saying is he should have taken more than 10 shots IN THIS GAME; another 6 or so I would have been fine with the consequences either way.

There is no need to bring a Blatche strawman into this, but the same rule applies, for all players imo. If you are hitting shots you should be looking to take more (in the flow of the offense). If Blatche was hitting his shots then sure get the man the ball, set him up to take more.
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long suffrin' boulez fan wrote:
NatP4 wrote:but why would the pacers want Mahinmi's contract


Well, in fairness, we took Mike Pence off their hands. Taking back Mahinmi is the least they can do.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#127 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Feb 4, 2012 12:03 pm

pineappleheadindc wrote:Wow.

Just wow....that was kinda bad.

I need a distraction....

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Pine, I'm starting to get on a lot of people's nerves, apparently.

I had the thought the board is going down. I miss, pine, because he just knew how to keep things under control and keep things classy.

You know when a distraction is needed and you understand this is supposed to be fun. I suggest to everybody that finds me offensive to just put me on ignore. It's cyberspace. I won't even notice you're not reading my posts any more! :) I am still going to debate my POVs. A lot of times I change opinions when people refute my arguments. I don't think I get personal, but a lot of posters seem to go there. It is one thing to offend a person with your disparate views but it is quite another to attack or demean a person.

Regardless, the problem IS what it has always been. We are fans of one of the least successful NBA teams, EVER. Everywhere you look if you want to you can see failure.

I'll stop. I like the distraction, pine. You know she kinda looks like she could be an island girl in the face, as hard as it is to actually focus on that part of her.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#128 » by dobrojim » Sat Feb 4, 2012 3:59 pm

don't know if I should bother to read the whole game thread or
not.

My take on this game is that it was a perfect example of
the clear and 2 main deficiencies that this team has:

defensive rebounding

shooting

A loss but not what I would consider a tanktastic loss.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#129 » by tontoz » Sat Feb 4, 2012 4:07 pm

Lewis is a career 39% shooter from 3. He is shooting 27% this year.

Mason is a career 38% shooter from 3. He is shooting 24% this year.

Vesely has 6 points in his last 4 games. Singleton has 6 points in his last 8 games. Mack is badly outplaying both of our 1st round picks. Not encouraging.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#130 » by Jimmy Recard » Sat Feb 4, 2012 4:21 pm

Chocolate City Jordanaire wrote:Pine, I'm starting to get on a lot of people's nerves, apparently.

I had the thought the board is going down. I miss, pine, because he just knew how to keep things under control and keep things classy.

You know when a distraction is needed and you understand this is supposed to be fun. I suggest to everybody that finds me offensive to just put me on ignore. It's cyberspace. I won't even notice you're not reading my posts any more! :) I am still going to debate my POVs. A lot of times I change opinions when people refute my arguments. I don't think I get personal, but a lot of posters seem to go there. It is one thing to offend a person with your disparate views but it is quite another to attack or demean a person.

CCJ, i read your posts and i know that you bleed for this organisation. But I think what irks people are some of your knee jerk reactions regarding Wall. Proposing trades for inferior talent such DJ Augustine etc...and your infatuation with DeMarcus Cousins is mind boggling to me. You can throw all the advanced stats my way and it won't change my opinion of him. I've seen enough of him to know he is a knucklehead who will have problems wherever he goes.

Admittedly, Wall has flat out sucked this season save 2 or 3 games. It annoys the hell out of me that he still hasn't figured out how to be more effective in the half court. It's not just his abysmal jump shot, but his overall inability to read the defense and react to it the way PG's should is what concerns me. The shaky handle, the costly turnovers, the lack of fundamentals, even his effort has looked suspect this season, particularly on the road. But he's just too physically talented to give up on so quickly imo. I really believe that if he puts it together, he's gonna be a special player, because he seems like a good kid with a good attitude and work ethic. Time will tell i guess.

While i'm still on the fence with Javale, the guys i HAVE given up on are Blatche (obviously) and Young. Nick's really been a disappointment. I really thought when he came into the league that he had all star potential. Great size for a 2, tremendous scorer, and with those long arms i really thought he'd be more of a pest defensively. Turns out he hasn't expanded his game at all outside of his 1 on 1 game. Apart from the occasional scoring burst, he really adds nothing. Horrid rebounder, even worse playmaker, lazy on D and some putrid shot selection. He makes no one around him better, and i could live with that if he was at least efficient at what he CAN do, which is score, but that hasn't been the case either. He's going to be 27 this year, he aint getting any better. I doubt he's even worth the MLE, let alone 9 mil.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#131 » by Illuminaire » Sat Feb 4, 2012 4:52 pm

tontoz wrote: Mack is badly outplaying both of our 1st round picks. Not encouraging.


Maybe you saw something I didn't, but Mack's play was pretty weak out there last night. He started passing up open shots, he missed most of his drives, he made some bad passing decisions and generally looked like a second round rookie. *shrug*
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#132 » by Chocolate City Jordanaire » Sat Feb 4, 2012 5:11 pm

Jimmy Recard wrote:CCJ, i read your posts and i know that you bleed for this organisation. But I think what irks people are some of your knee jerk reactions regarding Wall. Proposing trades for inferior talent such DJ Augustine etc...and your infatuation with DeMarcus Cousins is mind boggling to me. You can throw all the advanced stats my way and it won't change my opinion of him. I've seen enough of him to know he is a knucklehead who will have problems wherever he goes.

Admittedly, Wall has flat out sucked this season save 2 or 3 games. It annoys the hell out of me that he still hasn't figured out how to be more effective in the half court. It's not just his abysmal jump shot, but his overall inability to read the defense and react to it the way PG's should is what concerns me. The shaky handle, the costly turnovers, the lack of fundamentals, even his effort has looked suspect this season, particularly on the road. But he's just too physically talented to give up on so quickly imo. I really believe that if he puts it together, he's gonna be a special player, because he seems like a good kid with a good attitude and work ethic. Time will tell i guess.

While i'm still on the fence with Javale, the guys i HAVE given up on are Blatche (obviously) and Young. Nick's really been a disappointment. I really thought when he came into the league that he had all star potential. Great size for a 2, tremendous scorer, and with those long arms i really thought he'd be more of a pest defensively. Turns out he hasn't expanded his game at all outside of his 1 on 1 game. Apart from the occasional scoring burst, he really adds nothing. Horrid rebounder, even worse playmaker, lazy on D and some putrid shot selection. He makes no one around him better, and i could live with that if he was at least efficient at what he CAN do, which is score, but that hasn't been the case either. He's going to be 27 this year, he aint getting any better. I doubt he's even worth the MLE, let alone 9 mil.


You are not having the stats, huh, Jimmy. :lol:

Fair enough. I never said Cousins isn't a knucklehead who will have trouble wherever he goes. I think he probably will. I look at Rasheed Wallace and Artest and think if they can have rings so can Cousins some day.

Nice post, JR. I can accept all of what you're saying. I don't think I am knee jerk on Wall-- I've been an unwavering hater so to speak on the kid pretty much all along. Some people are great leaders and some are not. I think he's terrific at many things on a basketball court, and given his youth, a lot of good can happen. I don't think I'm wavering on the not so good. JR, I do believe you are right that I'm really patient with a guy like Cousins and really hard on Wall. Thanks, because I hadn't really focused on how much that could trouble others.

Noted.

Nick and Javale are two guys I think have pretty defined strengths and weaknesses. Young hits the three at a good percentage and he plays man defense well. Otherwise, he takes the darnedest shots, doesn't pass much, doesn't rebound, and is a low BBIQ player when he wants to shoot. The one thing about him that bothers me is he's not one to mix it up. He is a finesse shooter. I think Nick is fine on a roster at the right price. He'd be a good sixth man IMO. I really hope the Wizards can upgrade at SG. Javale will block shots, rebound, and play on emotion. He's mechanical on offense. He doesn't play the pick and roll or any semblence of physical defense, yet he really loves to block shots. He's an enigmatic player. Extremes both ways. He can make the greatest plays and the worst and often does them in the same game. I don't see limitless potential in him as I once thought possible for Javale. He seems to be really sullen and disappointed for a guy who's a young millionaire. I want the best for him but more and more each day it seems it won't be in a Wizard uniform. Honestly, I think McGee has all the talent in the world to be a star with another organization.

The Wizards need a savior, JR.

Other than divine intervention, I've been putting all hopes in them signing Dave Joerger to coach. I think anyone who wins that many championships in that few years has to be extremely talented and flexible enough to adapt. He has to be able to shuffle personnel and strategy. He's got youthful energy. He's the guy I hope saves the day.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#133 » by JonathanJoseph » Sat Feb 4, 2012 5:15 pm

dangermouse wrote:*facepalm* No, it wasnt a grammatical or technical error, you were downplaying how many jumpers Wall had taken and hit which was a positive for this particular game.

Clearly, i mean in this one particular game. Wall isnt even an adequate shooter, i'm not disputing that. I'm not disputing his overall ORting. I wouldnt even try.

Wall hit a few good shots today, some jumpers, he went 6-10 from the floor.

I'm not saying I want him taking more shots OVERALL. I am glad he is holding back and playing more under control...

What I am saying is he should have taken more than 10 shots IN THIS GAME; another 6 or so I would have been fine with the consequences either way.

There is no need to bring a Blatche strawman into this, but the same rule applies, for all players imo. If you are hitting shots you should be looking to take more (in the flow of the offense). If Blatche was hitting his shots then sure get the man the ball, set him up to take more.


OK, I get it. You weren't talking about a gramatical or technical difference, just a semantic difference.

And we agree on the basketball content, which is that Wall is a very bad shooter.

Where we differ is that you think because he made some bad shots that he should shoot more. My preference is that he not shoot long jumpers early in the shot clock EVER because he's not a good shooter and that's not smart, winning basketball, even if a few go in.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#134 » by hands11 » Sat Feb 4, 2012 6:37 pm

The picture worked for me.

Combo so sweetie and OMG.

Yeah, things do get to little to personal around here to often. But I guess that is the nature of a board. Its a mix of personalities. To me it boils down to a few main groups.

The Bah Hum Bugs..nothing is better until it is consistently better and you are winning and in the playoffs ( even then there will be much to grip about ) Most likely to say a player is a bust before even seeing them play a reasonable amount of minutes.

The Glass Half Fulls.. They try to take things in perceptive. Mostly they stay positive and patience but occasionally to bust hard on the player or coach, etc.

The Glass Half Empties .. They want to see things as half full but are just to jaded from this team poor history.

The Arguers. They will take a piece of what someone writes and spin it into something else and try to get the other person to defend something they never even said.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#135 » by tontoz » Sat Feb 4, 2012 7:04 pm

Illuminaire wrote:
tontoz wrote: Mack is badly outplaying both of our 1st round picks. Not encouraging.


Maybe you saw something I didn't, but Mack's play was pretty weak out there last night. He started passing up open shots, he missed most of his drives, he made some bad passing decisions and generally looked like a second round rookie. *shrug*



I wasn't talking about just last night. I was talking about recent games in general. Mack hasn't done much and is a marginal prospect but CS and JV have been giving us nothing.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#136 » by closg00 » Sat Feb 4, 2012 7:16 pm

Illuminaire wrote:
tontoz wrote: Mack is badly outplaying both of our 1st round picks. Not encouraging.


Maybe you saw something I didn't, but Mack's play was pretty weak out there last night. He started passing up open shots, he missed most of his drives, he made some bad passing decisions and generally looked like a second round rookie. *shrug*


+1 Mack he may not be a keeper.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#137 » by Illuminaire » Sat Feb 4, 2012 7:18 pm

Fair enough, Tontoz. I'm not sure what happened to Singleton either. (I would say that Jan's defensive contributions put him at least equal with Mack, though that's faint praise. Neither of them is exactly running for RotY. :P )
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#138 » by DallasShalDune » Sat Feb 4, 2012 8:08 pm

Ves and Singleton were both figured out quickly by the opposition, but they're rookies. I'd wait until the end of their rookie contracts before I "gave up on them."
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#139 » by 7-Day Dray » Sat Feb 4, 2012 9:43 pm

Illuminaire wrote:
tontoz wrote: Mack is badly outplaying both of our 1st round picks. Not encouraging.


Maybe you saw something I didn't, but Mack's play was pretty weak out there last night. He started passing up open shots, he missed most of his drives, he made some bad passing decisions and generally looked like a second round rookie. *shrug*


+1 He looked like Mustafa Shakur part duex out there.
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Re: Wizards at Raptors GT 

Post#140 » by llcc25 » Sat Feb 4, 2012 10:06 pm

Guys I know Vesley and Singleton isn't it fair to expect them to be further along and more polished than what they've shown given their experience - Vesley in the pro euro league and Singleton has a 4 year college player if i'm not mistaken...I see guys within one year of college ball experience like irving and brandon knight atleast showing they belong but over the course of this season so far, both Vesley and Singleton have fallen way short of what I thought we'd be getting...

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