Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 5

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

I think this is one of those drafts, where because there isn't any real superstar per se, but is deep in players where one prospect is not head and shoulders above the other, that fit and 'right team/situation' will determine just how good these guys end up imo. I mean, in this draft, BPA is a relative term, because the talent is rather similar at various positions. Case in point, Kidd-Gilchrist vs. Barnes - I'm sure teams are split on these two.

I happen to think Anthony Davis would be great on the Pistons or Kings, where he doesn't need to be an number 1 with an emerging Greg Monroe/DeMarcus Cousins. I think Sullinger or Thomas Robinson are tailor-made for the Wizards. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist could be a nice fit in New Jersey. Harrison Barnes could work for a lot of teams, but I like him best for the Bobcats or Raptors. Andre Drummond or Perry Jones would be high upside picks for a team in need of high-end talent in New Orleans, and Lamb or Beal would be good choices for the Suns & Cavaliers respectively (if not the Raptors).

It's the kind of draft that will make bad teams better depending on who they pick (yeah, it's always been like that, but this year it's more evident with just a deep pool of players to choose from).

[Kevin Willis]

^- Agreed. So one BC said no matter where we draft he'll get a good player he was right. If we want a SG we can get Barnes, Ross or Lamb because one of them will be available. PG - Wroten or Austin.

etc.

[Undefeated]

Barnes has the moves, im sure he will develop more and refine them and do whatever he needs to do to be more effective offensivly, But is he doesn't have it, not right now, and "it" is the most unteachable thing there is, hes stiff with the ball, not fluid, he doesn't have the court vision, Maybe this guy isn't being used right, but i just dont see him being a number 1 guy in the NBA and winning anything, maybe he has more to show, but not seeing it yet, he just doesn't have the killer instinct or the touch. If we are looking to draft a good 3rd option, fine defender and rebounder then Barnes is a great pick.

a) I beg to differ that Barnes doesn't have the killer instinct. Did you watch the game yesterday against Maryland? Barnes made his signature two dribble pull-up jumper that was nothing but net with about 1:06 remaining in the game. That's ice in his veins right there. I mean, Barnes already has a proven track record of being a big time clutch performer which was especially evident in the ACC conference tournament last year. Every single time the Tar Heels is need of a basket, it's always Barnes delivering out of a timeout play.

b) Barnes might not have yo-yo handles to put his defender on ice skates, but he certainly looks smooth whenever he's using screens turning the corner getting inside the paint before exploding to the basket or for a one-dribble/two-dribble pull-up with a series of hesitation moves, inside-out dribble or egg-beater dribble putting his defender on their heels.

This might be the most complete game I've seen from Barnes this year and by no means does he look mechanical with the ball in his hands. Notice how Barnes does an excellent job of keeping his dribble alive and baiting the defender into the screen before driving strong to the basket or rising up for a jumper. Barnes just knows how to make good use of his dribble and movement without wasting energy. He's arguably the most fluid prospect in knowing how to use the screen-and-roll in this draft class maybe either than Austin Rivers.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dVMCRc1rg[/youtube]

[Mister Ze]

MKG and Lamb is a tough choice. Both would bring different strengths to the table,

[Pseudonym]

Interesting how Drummond went way down in the poll now lol.

[tdotrep2]

Man all I want is for BC to aquire an additional lotto pick

[fredericklove]

Interesting how Drummond went way down in the poll now lol.

Yup. Everyone's scared of him. Too much risk potential.

[Sydeflyp]

Barnes has the moves, im sure he will develop more and refine them and do whatever he needs to do to be more effective offensivly, But is he doesn't have it, not right now, and "it" is the most unteachable thing there is, hes stiff with the ball, not fluid, he doesn't have the court vision, Maybe this guy isn't being used right, but i just dont see him being a number 1 guy in the NBA and winning anything, maybe he has more to show, but not seeing it yet, he just doesn't have the killer instinct or the touch. If we are looking to draft a good 3rd option, fine defender and rebounder then Barnes is a great pick.

a) I beg to differ that Barnes doesn't have the killer instinct. Did you watch the game yesterday against Maryland? Barnes made his signature two dribble pull-up jumper that was nothing but net with about 1:06 remaining in the game. That's ice in his veins right there. I mean, Barnes already has a proven track record of being a big time clutch performer which was especially evident in the ACC conference tournament last year. Every single time the Tar Heels is need of a basket, it's always Barnes delivering out of a timeout play.

b) Barnes might not have yo-yo handles to put his defender on ice skates, but he certainly looks smooth whenever he's using screens turning the corner getting inside the paint before exploding to the basket or for a one-dribble/two-dribble pull-up with a series of hesitation moves, inside-out dribble or egg-beater dribble putting his defender on their heels.

This might be the most complete game I've seen from Barnes this year and by no means does he look mechanical with the ball in his hands. Notice how Barnes does an excellent job of keeping his dribble alive and baiting the defender into the screen before driving strong to the basket or rising up for a jumper. Barnes just knows how to make good use of his dribble and movement without wasting energy. He's arguably the most fluid prospect in knowing how to use the screen-and-roll in this draft class maybe either than Austin Rivers.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5dVMCRc1rg[/youtube]

Yeah he had an impressive second half, and he has had some impressive whole games, hes a good college player, i just don't think hes going to put it all together to be a number 1 or 2 option in the NBA. He had some good shots over mostly smaller defenders, he doesn't consistantly dominate college games, i dont see him doing it in the NBA. Btw I guess you could say Bayless has killer instinct too, he comes up big down the stretch once in a while.....Barnes is the safe pick i guess, i would be happy if we got him, but if MKG uses his work ethic to learn to shoot and find some go to moves and we are going to want this draft back if we pick barnes over him. Beal, Lamb, Miller all have more upside aswell in my opinion. Our team is pretty much wide open with good character guys and a defensive minded coach that will hold them accountable, no reason any player we pick doesn't reach his potential. I just dont like every year thinking we should have taken .....

[fredericklove]

Yeah he had an impressive second half, and he has had some impressive whole games, hes a good college player, i just don't think hes going to put it all together to be a number 1 or 2 option in the NBA. He had some good shots over mostly smaller defenders, he doesn't consistantly dominate college games, i dont see him doing it in the NBA. Btw I guess you could say Bayless has killer instinct too, he comes up big down the stretch once in a while.....Barnes is the safe pick i guess, i would be happy if we got him, but if MKG uses his work ethic to learn to shoot and find some go to moves and we are going to want this draft back if we pick barnes over him. Beal, Lamb, Miller all have more upside aswell in my opinion. Our team is pretty much wide open with good character guys and a defensive minded coach that will hold them accountable, no reason any player we pick doesn't reach his potential. I just dont like every year thinking we should have taken .....

You're wrong for Barnes taking good shots over mostly smaller defenders, just because in yesterday's game or in clips you see that guys he shoots over are shorter but if you watch all the games there are guys physically built with similar if not just slightly shorter.

Now you're just trolling using Bayless as example, he has no killer instinct whatsoever, he makes one shot but only to come back and chuck the next 2-3 shots in crunch time. How is that a killer instinct? He doesn't even close the games out, Barnes has. So what are you using Bayless example for. That's just plain stupid.

I don't like it that posters contradict their words always, you're not the only one here that does it, I've seen few posters here do the same. Such as going back and forth criticizing that prospect again and again and always come to the end saying things like you would be happy if drafting him or you still like him. That's just hypocrite talk. If I don't like a prospect, I criticize and I openly say I don't like him and don't want to draft him. I wouldn't talk so hypocrite like others did.

[Salted Meat]

From where we're sitting right now, if Barnes is still on the board, I think you take him and walk away happy. I think he's a great fit with JV, Bargnani and DeRozan, could be a legit 2nd option, opens up space on the floor for DeRozan to run around and helps keep the paint free for Jonas. I don't see him as our saviour, but he can be a big part of our rebuild. He'll do all of the little things we need from a SF. he seems like he's a smart kid, and he's nowhere near being a finished product.

But with Drummond apparently staying another year at UConn, I can't see Barnes landing outside of the top 3.

[Sydeflyp]

Yeah he had an impressive second half, and he has had some impressive whole games, hes a good college player, i just don't think hes going to put it all together to be a number 1 or 2 option in the NBA. He had some good shots over mostly smaller defenders, he doesn't consistantly dominate college games, i dont see him doing it in the NBA. Btw I guess you could say Bayless has killer instinct too, he comes up big down the stretch once in a while.....Barnes is the safe pick i guess, i would be happy if we got him, but if MKG uses his work ethic to learn to shoot and find some go to moves and we are going to want this draft back if we pick barnes over him. Beal, Lamb, Miller all have more upside aswell in my opinion. Our team is pretty much wide open with good character guys and a defensive minded coach that will hold them accountable, no reason any player we pick doesn't reach his potential. I just dont like every year thinking we should have taken .....

You're wrong for Barnes taking good shots over mostly smaller defenders, just because in yesterday's game or in clips you see that guys he shoots over are shorter but if you watch all the games there are guys physically built with similar if not just slightly shorter.

Now you're just trolling using Bayless as example, he has no killer instinct whatsoever, he makes one shot but only to come back and chuck the next 2-3 shots in crunch time. How is that a killer instinct? He doesn't even close the games out, Barnes has. So what are you using Bayless example for. That's just plain stupid.

I don't like it that posters contradict their words always, you're not the only one here that does it, I've seen few posters here do the same. Such as going back and forth criticizing that prospect again and again and always come to the end saying things like you would be happy if drafting him or you still like him. That's just hypocrite talk. If I don't like a prospect, I criticize and I openly say I don't like him and don't want to draft him. I wouldn't talk so hypocrite like others did.

In college in general the defenders are smaller.... And no im not contradicting myself, hes a fine prospect as a 3rd option all around type guy, hes not going to be a all-star on a winning team, thats fine if thats where we pick or what we are looking for, but i would rather go for a player with more all star potential if in the top 5. I will always try and look on the bright side if we ended up picking him, Just because its not all black and white doesn't mean its a contradiction, and theres been many raps games since bayless has been here when hes been playing down the stretch insted of jose and hes the only guy scoring or playing hard, he just doesn't have the skill to be really effective. I just brought up bayless to prove a point. Alot of guys can be clutch doesnt mean theyre all stars , lou williams may have been a better guy to bring up, but hes not a rap.

[5DOM]

I know Barnes hit some big shots, but I would still like to see him shoot higher %'s against better teams. He shot below 40% against ranked teams in regular season last year, and had a mediocre NCAA tourney efficiency-wise. His last two games against Kentucky weren't pretty either.

Good thing Duke game is this week. Hopefully I can catch most of it

[Marlo Stanfield]

I wouldn't be mad with HB, but going forward having 2 wings with limited handles is not ideal to say the least. That would be my ONLY worry drafting Barnes.

[baulderdash77]

^So then what does you draft board look like?

I see our team needing a #1 offensive option. So the top of my draft board is (not settled on order)

- PJ3
-Barnes
-Lamb

That's my top 3 because I feel if you don't have a #1 you have to try and get one. I don't see MKG, Drummond or Davis being a #1 option but my top 3 have a chance.

PJ3 has the highest upside and Barnes has the lowest downside with Lamb as emerging but they all have a chance to be an NBA #1 option.

[DreamTeam09]

^^ This is how my board looks like too. I'd have Barnes infront tho but i'd be happy with either 1. I like the height out there with PJ/Bargs/Val. Our zone defence could be something real good.

[Man of Steel]

^So then what does you draft board look like?

I see our team needing a #1 offensive option. So the top of my draft board is (not settled on order)

- PJ3
-Barnes
-Lamb

That's my top 3 because I feel if you don't have a #1 you have to try and get one. I don't see MKG, Drummond or Davis being a #1 option but my top 3 have a chance.

PJ3 has the highest upside and Barnes has the lowest downside with Lamb as emerging but they all have a chance to be an NBA #1 option.

Of the three you mentioned, which has the best ball-handling skills? I feel like that's an important thing to look for in a good wing these days, especially given our current roster.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

^So then what does you draft board look like?

I see our team needing a #1 offensive option. So the top of my draft board is (not settled on order)

- PJ3
-Barnes
-Lamb

That's my top 3 because I feel if you don't have a #1 you have to try and get one. I don't see MKG, Drummond or Davis being a #1 option but my top 3 have a chance.

PJ3 has the highest upside and Barnes has the lowest downside with Lamb as emerging but they all have a chance to be an NBA #1 option.

Just curious, if Andrea was able to sustain what he did for 13 games, couldn't he be the number 1 option? See, I'm not looking for Barnes or Lamb to a number 1 option, because both would likely play off of Andrea. Part of the intrigue, for me, with a guy like Barnes is that, with Andrea's ability to draw attention from defences, Barnes would get a lot of good looks to capitalize, and do what he does best, which is shoot the ball. And once defences begin to respect his shot, he'll be able to utilize the 2-dribble pull-up a la Paul Pierce, which will make our team very tough to guard.

It's also why I like Brad Beal so much for this team as well.

[Serious_P]

I know this might come out of nowhere but our board needs to stop sleeping on terrence ross that guy can really ball great shooter, pretty decent handles, has some good athleticism, good defender, clutch player and plays hard. We always bring up Lamb, Beal, and Rivers but this guy should be in the acquisition if we talking 2 guards. Well here is some highlights of him. Btw kinda reminds me of a young t-mac before he put it all together.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CYeHHeI4fg[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NZ3ii5fmnU[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v_HT9VEEcI[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTqpwXliYgk[/youtube]

[Undefeated]

In college in general the defenders are smaller.... And no im not contradicting myself, hes a fine prospect as a 3rd option all around type guy, hes not going to be a all-star on a winning team, thats fine if thats where we pick or what we are looking for, but i would rather go for a player with more all star potential if in the top 5. I will always try and look on the bright side if we ended up picking him, Just because its not all black and white doesn't mean its a contradiction, and theres been many raps games since bayless has been here when hes been playing down the stretch insted of jose and hes the only guy scoring or playing hard, he just doesn't have the skill to be really effective. I just brought up bayless to prove a point. Alot of guys can be clutch doesnt mean theyre all stars , lou williams may have been a better guy to bring up, but hes not a rap.

The argument that Barnes shoots over smaller defenders is weak sauce. No one said anything about Tyreke Evans or Derrick Williams having the size advantage over smaller defenders, so why all of a sudden for Barnes. Questioning Barnes' ability to shoot the basketball shouldn't be a concern whatsoever.

What makes you think Barnes isn't a All-Star prospect? Isn't that a bit premature at this stage? Worst case scenario, Barnes ends up a Luol Deng/Nicolas Batum/Marvin Williams as his floor which is still a borderline All-Star caliber player. Barnes already has a prototypical frame for a SF, great defensive fundamentals and instinct along with the physical tools, a silky smooth jumper that already extends out to the NBA 3-point line, is deadly off the triple-threat, uses and reads ball screens very well, solid contributor on the glass, high basketball IQ, and solid athleticism which screams impact player meaning potential All-Star. What should be kept in mind is that, Barnes isn't a prospect who will likely blow up in your face even if he doesn't turn out to be a franchise player. At least the Raptors will have a solid 2nd option or 3rd Banana.

Why are we comparing Barnes to Bayless ? Relative to his peers, Barnes has proven the most as a clutch time performer. It was just weird how you doubted Barnes killer instinct when he has proven otherwise.

[fredericklove]

Barnes has proven the most as a clutch time performer. It was just weird how you doubted Barnes killer instinct when he has proven otherwise.

Agree, and proven. To the doubters, it's the fact.