[POLL] You pick the winner of Diaz vs Condit

[cowboyronnie]

LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN HOW HE WAS KICKING IN THE FIRST VERSUS THE THIRD AND FOURTH. Look at his balance, look at him turn over his hips, look how he's whipping down his lead leg kick, look at him throw kicks in combination. You're not back-pedalling if you're throwing kick combinations. You're necessarily planting forward. In the first, it's a perfect example of, yes, a guy flailing and running. But things change. Watch it. The reason the fight was amazing to watch was because of the psychodrama involved in Nick beginning to hesitate and Carlos beginning to throw hsi kicks with comfort.

Who did you score the 5th for? I assume you scored the first 2 for Diaz, and I know 3-4 for Condit. You had to have at least had the 5th pretty close, right? I assume razor thin decision for you either way.

I don't remember the first 3 mins of the 5th. But I think Diaz cos of the TD. 3-2 Diaz, but - on the level of machismo and ego and Pride rules, Condit.

[NZB2323]

I thought that Diaz took rounds 1, 2 and 5.

I think a big reason why people are so upset is because there was so much hype going into this fight. "It's going to be the fight of the year and a war and Diaz is going to win and then face GSP!"...and then it's a lackluster fight with a controversial decision. And the judges giving round 4 to Diaz and no other round is BS.

[spykelee]

I can't believe the amount of dissention for this decision.

Diaz always moves forward all the time. As Cammo said, Condit had the exact blueprint for that. Diaz wants to put his opponent up against the fence, and then punish them. Carlos would get backed up, but even against the cage, he was usually off first, or countering effectively and then out of there. Diaz wanted him against the cage and he hardly ever had him there. If that isn't Condit dictating octagon control, I don't know what is.

Like i said, only watched it once, but I had 1 and 5 for Diaz, and 2-3-4 for Condit. 3-2 Condit.

[REDDzone]

The fact that everyone is saying "Condit had the perfect blueprint for beating Diaz" is exactly what makes me want to see the rematch so damn much. What would the next fight look like? Would Diaz train how to cut off the cage only to have the Natural Born Killer's relentless push the pace strategy return? Would it look the same as the original? Would Diaz force Condit to chase HIM down and turn the tables that way?

I want to see it.

[CPT]

1) Some of the people praising Condit's gameplan in this fight (and it is worthy of praise) had better STFU about GSP fighting for decisions. At least in a GSP fight there is no doubt who won.

2) This fight, perhaps as much as any other since Machida/Shogun 1, has raised the question of how to score leg kicks. If you assume all strikes are equal, Condit outstruck Diaz in most rounds.

As per FightMetric's total strikes:
1: 30-28 Condit
2: 35-29 Diaz
3: 33-24 Condit
4: 37-11 Condit
5: 30-19 Condit (the only round that featured any significant grappling)

However, if you assign a value to each strike, it may tell a different story. This is oversimplified, and I'm sure plenty of people won't even agree with the general idea, but let's say a strike to the head is worth 3, body 2, legs 1. I feel something along those lines is appropriate, though ideally you would want to make allowances for a power kick to the leg being worth more than a jab, but anyway, just to paint a picture...

1: 71-51 Diaz
2: 88-56 Diaz
3: 62-61 Diaz
4: 70-23 Condit
5: 67-46 Condit

Again, not perfect, but at least it shows what a lot of people might be thinking.

3) As much as I'd like to see a rematch, I think it would look really bad. Everybody knows the UFC wanted Diaz to win this fight and go on to fight GSP, so making Condit have to beat Diaz twice for the same opportunity seems really unfair. That being said, I think the rematch would be very interesting. As much as it seemed like Condit had the gameplan to beat Diaz, it was still a close fight, and we saw Diaz have quite a bit of success when he was able to get it to the ground. If he tried that more often, he may have won another round and the fight, or even secured a submission. So I guess what I'm saying is that I want/expect to see the rematch at some point, I just have my doubts that it will be the next fight for both guys.

*It really does seem like the kind of fight that would have the UFC throw in a different set of rules if they were able to. If this were the WWE, the rematch would be a Hell in the Cell match or something.

[Posey H8er]

From the legend himself, Royce Gracie-

"@nickdiaz209 won that fight in my.opinion. he is what every fighter should be a true martial artists who comes to fight. Well prepared and with a gameplan. Not one that envloves running from a fight. Why come to fight if you gonna run. Hackney was running when we fought and I had to take the fight to him, Shamrock showed up not to lose in our rematch its a shame really. I for one am proud of Nick and happy he is part of Grace Jiu-jitsu family. @NateDiaz209"

[CPT]

I find it kind of strange how so many fighters are throwing Condit under the bus.

Are there any guys who have publicly come out saying Condit won?

Anyway, I've said my piece on the fight, but I will say that it's pretty hard to land more strikes than your opponent if you are running away.

[blkout]

From the legend himself, Royce Gracie-

"@nickdiaz209 won that fight in my.opinion. he is what every fighter should be a true martial artists who comes to fight. Well prepared and with a gameplan. Not one that envloves running from a fight. Why come to fight if you gonna run. Hackney was running when we fought and I had to take the fight to him, Shamrock showed up not to lose in our rematch its a shame really. I for one am proud of Nick and happy he is part of Grace Jiu-jitsu family. @NateDiaz209"

An unbiased and completely objective opinion if ever I've seen one

[jTF2]

I find it kind of strange how so many fighters are throwing Condit under the bus.

Are there any guys who have publicly come out saying Condit won?

Anyway, I've said my piece on the fight, but I will say that it's pretty hard to land more strikes than your opponent if you are running away.

there are plenty. but not as much as the pro diaz fighters.

[cowboyronnie]

I think Condit's a bit of a lone wolf in terms of training. For one thing, he's known to be merciless in sparring. Like, cannot go anything but 100%. Maybe he's not that popular among other fighters? Diaz has relationships with a huge number of those who've come out in his favor. Rousey, Gracie fighters, etc.

Serious question: what does Nick Diaz do for pussy? Nate seems to have a GF. I can't see Nick have anything to do with a girl, or vice versa.

[CPT]

I think Condit's a bit of a lone wolf in terms of training. For one thing, he's known to be merciless in sparring. Like, cannot go anything but 100%. Maybe he's not that popular among other fighters? Diaz has relationships with a huge number of those who've come out in his favor. Rousey, Gracie fighters, etc.

Serious question: what does Nick Diaz do for pussy? Nate seems to have a GF. I can't see Nick have anything to do with a girl, or vice versa.

I'd been wondering that myself until I came across a quote about it on some "top 25 Nick Diaz quotes" article.

And now that I look at it again, I see the all important "If", so I guess I still don't know.

If I have a girlfriend, I don't bring her around to flaunt her. She doesn't get to reap the benefits of me being famous.

[cowboyronnie]

The "then" there is a pretty good sign, "no".

Listen, baby, you stay home, I don't want you reaping any benefits.

[Hilltop]

Scoring is still an issue obviously, but piling on Condit for 'running away'? I don't know about that. If you thought he was running all the way to New Mexico then you probably thought Machida was scared of Ortiz as well. Wasn't Tito complaining about Machida 'running' from him? Same deal. Your opponent isnt required to stand in front of you and trade or allow you to play your game. It's not as if the fight went the Kalib Starnes route and not by a longshot.

[SabasRevenge!]

I find it kind of strange how so many fighters are throwing Condit under the bus.

Are there any guys who have publicly come out saying Condit won?

Anyway, I've said my piece on the fight, but I will say that it's pretty hard to land more strikes than your opponent if you are running away.

I don't think it's necessarily that they're throwing him under the bus. Guys who are coaches/trainers/fighters all seeing the fight in a similar way and it's not because they love Diaz/hate Condit. It's been interesting to listen to some of the fallout from the fight on some MMA radio shows. The technical analysis has been quite helpful.

In particular, Joey Varner, a very highly regarded Xtreme Couture striking coach, pointed out the difference between sticking and moving (disengaging, planting, striking) and what Carlos was doing. Carlos ran almost to the other side of the cage, forcing Diaz to pursue him before Condit slipped away and ran to the other side of the cage. Carlos didn't square up and move laterally, he moved angled his body in a direction to avoid Diaz and ran.

I think this behavior is why so many MMA fighters and trainers were shocked at the outcome. The judges who were appointed by the commission (Peoples and Jarman are two of the worst) are supremely unqualified.

As for me, I'll support Diaz with Miletich, Hando, Munoz, Camarillo, Lauzon, Helwani, Lindland, Varner, McKenzie, Neer, Rousey, Coenen, Cormier, Benavidez, Dillashaw, and a hell of a lot of others.

Y'all can have Cecil Peoples and Patricia Morse Jarman.

By the way I had money on Condit at +170 and in a parlay. I don't really care though. I'd rather have lost the money and seen the guy who won get the victory.

[REDDzone]

It seems weird for me to say this since I'm the guy who posted all the fighter opinions, but I personally couldn't care less what the fighters think.

People doing things like screaming for fighters as judges don't realize how small and incestuous the mma community is. These guys train together / fight eachother / train other guys to fight guys / corner guys against guys, etc. on a consistent basis. There is no objectivity here.

All this, "Honda Housey thought Diaz won!!!" and "Royce had Diaz", etc. doesn't mean much when I was watching Diaz/Ronda roll like 3 days ago on youtube and Diaz is a Gracie fighter and blackbelt. Not complaining about people who pointed it out (I did that more than anyone, lol), just my take.

[SDM]

It seems weird for me to say this since I'm the guy who posted all the fighter opinions, but I personally couldn't care less what the fighters think.

People doing things like screaming for fighters as judges don't realize how small and incestuous the mma community is. These guys train together / fight eachother / train other guys to fight guys / corner guys against guys, etc. on a consistent basis. There is no objectivity here.

All this, "Honda Housey thought Diaz won!!!" and "Royce had Diaz", etc. doesn't mean much when I was watching Diaz/Ronda roll like 3 days ago on youtube and Diaz is a Gracie fighter and blackbelt. Not complaining about people who pointed it out (I did that more than anyone, lol), just my take.

My thoughts exactly.

[blkout]

The irony is a lot of these fighters would've had at least one fight where people were screaming at their TV for them to engage or do something, because they were too busy being tentative and trying not to lose the fight rather than going after a win. Also wasn't TJ Dillashaw the guy on TUF who was openly campaigning to fight the other teams worst guy first up so he'd have an easier road to the final? People in glass houses...

[cowboyronnie]

Oh ****, Cody McKenzie. The 8th biggest name you have on your list there (what a list it is!). Defer to his 140 character opinion, forget sensible analysis. You're in such great company, how could you be wrong?

[Nemesis21]

3 rds to 2 for Condit.