Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 5

[The Chucker]

I know I keep switching ranks but now MKG for me is a solid #1 for wing players, his play making abilities the past few games I've watched has seriously impressed me. Most elite NBA wings are also good at creating for others, Lebron, Wade, KB, etc. all have 4+ apg career avg, and I think MKG has that potential. And let's not forget he excels at grabbing rebounds, even though he has Anthony Davis on the team he still manages to average 7 + rebounds, that speaks volumes (and with Bargnani on the team for the foreseeable future, this would be much needed). I'm not worried about his shot to much because he's very athletic and can create a living off of midrange shots and driving to the bucket a la wade and Gerald Wallace. This kid has 5 assist 5 rbds per game written all over him, I would take him even with the 3rd overall pick (at a young age of 18, he's got all the time in the world to get better offensively). And I didn't even mention his defensive awareness!

mkg is not super athletic like g-force or wade. hes has above average athleticism. i dont see him driving to the bucket like those two guys.

[dTox]

I like MKG a lot but I see more of an Iguodala level player than a future star.

Still an excellent pick but I hope we can get a bit more than that. Again, it's extremely early to cap a guys ceiling but that's kind of what I'm seeing.

OTOH, I don't think any of the wings have clearly separated themselves from the pack.

I think alot of us are underrating an Iguodala, keep in mind since he became the man in Philly after A.I's departure his team has been consistently in the playoffs. The fact that the 76ers are one of the best teams in the East and him being their best player is a good indication of his impact on the game. He might not score 20+ ppg, but he certainly is one of the best defenders in the game (that alone I think has the same effect as him being a 20+ scorer because he also manages to slow down the guy he's guarding). He's like the opposite of a Kevin Love, a guy who brings it all on the stats sheet but doesn't impact the game in a winning way because he also gives up 20 points to the guy he's guarding.

[dTox]

I know I keep switching ranks but now MKG for me is a solid #1 for wing players, his play making abilities the past few games I've watched has seriously impressed me. Most elite NBA wings are also good at creating for others, Lebron, Wade, KB, etc. all have 4+ apg career avg, and I think MKG has that potential. And let's not forget he excels at grabbing rebounds, even though he has Anthony Davis on the team he still manages to average 7 + rebounds, that speaks volumes (and with Bargnani on the team for the foreseeable future, this would be much needed). I'm not worried about his shot to much because he's very athletic and can create a living off of midrange shots and driving to the bucket a la wade and Gerald Wallace. This kid has 5 assist 5 rbds per game written all over him, I would take him even with the 3rd overall pick (at a young age of 18, he's got all the time in the world to get better offensively). And I didn't even mention his defensive awareness!

mkg is not super athletic like g-force or wade. hes has above average athleticism. i dont see him driving to the bucket like those two guys.

I think he's very athletic, infact very underrated in that catagory

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWvDuXeMAAM&feature=related[/youtube]

I know this is only one clip, but I've seen him throw down some nasty dunks in the past as well. He might not win the Dunk contest but he definitely will be one of the upper echelon of players in terms of athleticism. And He's only 18! He's only going to get bigger and stronger at the next level

[Dr Positivity]

He's this year's Tyreke Evans. Has the size, athleticism and skill level of a star but has good stats bad team moron ball pounder written all over him. Will probably drop 17 and 6 his rookie season and be declared the steal of the draft, who knows what happens from there

Still, a team picking 10th or 11th might be on board with getting a 20 and 6 Evans/Stuckey talent and the chance to whip him into shape. Last year everyone knew Marshon Brooks had as much 20ppg ability as anyone in the draft, but was declared a Ricky Davis type chucker/loser - But Brooks so far has apparantely had a great attitude, so you just don't know, talent is talent.

I could see New Orleans going SF/PF/C their first pick, and PG their 2nd. And Phoenix looking for a guy to fill Nash's shoes. Wroten comes into workouts, looks good, all of a sudden he goes top 10

& That is why my sleeper pick this year is Austin Rivers. Talent is talent, and it's hard to name a better scorer than him in this class.

He looks so much like a Ben Gordon, Jamal Crawford, the Microwave type to me. Undersized SG who puts up a lot of perimeter Js. An NBA player and probably a good pick at 12 or 13 or something but I don't see the star potential some do

[Dr Positivity]

MKG is a good athlete but Iguodala and Wallace are absolutely ridiculous ones.

Still think MKG is as physically talented as a young Caron Butler, and like the Demar pick if he wants to be an all-star he'll have to rely on his skill game first and his solid athleticism 2nd - Though I think MKG's skill level is much more promising than young DD's was and is thus a better prospect

Assuming MKG is a dominant athlete will go the same way Derozan's dominant athleticism hype did IMO

[Dr Positivity]

I worry a little bit about the "Barnes will be an EPIC shooter" angle because he's at 72% FT. FT is usually a great indicator of your shooting talent. Elite NBA shooters usually are putting up mid 80%s or something. Now a lot of those great players were 10-15% lower in college than in the NBA like Granger, Allen, Miller, etc. But as is the case with all skills, development is never a lock. Barnes can be a guy who jumps to mid 80s and one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. Or he can stay where he is and be as good a shooter as Deng. I don't think he is a lock star shooter because of his 44% from 3 numbers. There have been a lot of NCAA players who put up 40% from 3 and failed more in the NBA

Lamb OTOH is at 83% FT, which together with how good his shot looks, make me think this guy could bomb if he entered the league tomorrow

FT shooting is funny. Some of the best shooter are also terrific FT shooters, but others are surprisingly poor. The converse is also true - they are some terrif FT shooter who you would never let shoot a real jumper if you could avoid it. Shooting FTs is about focus and confidence more than anything, and as you said many shooter-type become significantly better in the NBA. Ray allen shot 72.7% as a soph. Reggie miller shot 80.4 as a soph. MJ shot 73.7. Dell Curry shot 75.9 as a soph and Paul Pierce was at 71.7 his second year at Kansas.

I can't find a ton of "best of the best" shooters who aren't mid 80s or higher. JRich was an elite 3 bomber who was in the mid 70%s. Battier and Prince have been mediocore, but they also make a trip to the line every 1 or 2 games and probably aren't as comfortable when they get up there as a result (and none of these guys take midrange shots often).

Anyways, the point is that as a whole, FT% aligns very very well with shooting ability - more than the NCAA 3Pt line IMO. There may be exceptions, just like there are for the "rebounding translates from college" thought process, but it's a very solid trend

I feel like Barnes CAN be one of the best shooters in the league and a Granger type devastating bomber

But he's not a GUARANTEE to be one. It isn't Stephen Curry or JJ Redick situation, where those guys were already better than just about every NBA PG/SG at shooting, before they were drafted

What that makes Barnes is a prospect who needs to develop, with a good upside if he does and a risk of failure if he doesn't - which puts him in a group with everyone else. He is no guarantee for 17 and 6, awesome 3pt shooter, plays d above average starter. A 12 points 4 rebounds "well f*ck me sideways" pick is on the table IMO.

I remember thinking Wes Johnson and Xavier Henry were too of the safest prospects possible. Sure they had low upside, but these guys were gonig to be 38%+ 3P shooters who defended at worst, right? Well WTF happened? So far their shooting has sucked. Maybe it's confidence, a tough situation, difficulty adjusting to a lower volume and touches, or maybe hitting just 78% FT in college was a better indicator than 42% from 3 that they were good shooting talents, but not best in the world phenoms or SF Redicks... the draft has seen so many examples of a perimeter player's NBA skills being like hot chicks when they move to Hollywood to become an actress. Double D 10s have a chance... 8s hang around for a while, but go home to Iowa at 27 to marry a paper salesman.

"Safe/low upside" can turn into "Flat out mediocore talent, better than everyone else at nothing" rather quickly IMO... just like "Risk/high upside" can turn into "His physical gifts gave him a guaranteed 30mpg". Maybe Drummond's floor is Javale McGee, but Barnes and MKG's are Marvin Williams and James Johnson..

[Rapsfan07]

I worry a little bit about the "Barnes will be an EPIC shooter" angle because he's at 72% FT. FT is usually a great indicator of your shooting talent. Elite NBA shooters usually are putting up mid 80%s or something. Now a lot of those great players were 10-15% lower in college than in the NBA like Granger, Allen, Miller, etc. But as is the case with all skills, development is never a lock. Barnes can be a guy who jumps to mid 80s and one of the best 3pt shooters in the league. Or he can stay where he is and be as good a shooter as Deng. I don't think he is a lock star shooter because of his 44% from 3 numbers. There have been a lot of NCAA players who put up 40% from 3 and failed more in the NBA

Lamb OTOH is at 83% FT, which together with how good his shot looks, make me think this guy could bomb if he entered the league tomorrow

FT shooting is funny. Some of the best shooter are also terrific FT shooters, but others are surprisingly poor. The converse is also true - they are some terrif FT shooter who you would never let shoot a real jumper if you could avoid it. Shooting FTs is about focus and confidence more than anything, and as you said many shooter-type become significantly better in the NBA. Ray allen shot 72.7% as a soph. Reggie miller shot 80.4 as a soph. MJ shot 73.7. Dell Curry shot 75.9 as a soph and Paul Pierce was at 71.7 his second year at Kansas.

I can't find a ton of "best of the best" shooters who aren't mid 80s or higher. JRich was an elite 3 bomber who was in the mid 70%s. Battier and Prince have been mediocore, but they also make a trip to the line every 1 or 2 games and probably aren't as comfortable when they get up there as a result (and none of these guys take midrange shots often).

Anyways, the point is that as a whole, FT% aligns very very well with shooting ability - more than the NCAA 3Pt line IMO. There may be exceptions, just like there are for the "rebounding translates from college" thought process, but it's a very solid trend

I feel like Barnes CAN be one of the best shooters in the league and a Granger type devastating bomber

But he's not a GUARANTEE to be one. It isn't Stephen Curry or JJ Redick situation, where those guys were already better than just about every NBA PG/SG at shooting, before they were drafted

What that makes Barnes is a prospect who needs to develop, with a good upside if he does and a risk of failure if he doesn't - which puts him in a group with everyone else. He is no guarantee for 17 and 6, awesome 3pt shooter, plays d above average starter. A 12 points 4 rebounds "well f*ck me sideways" pick is on the table IMO.

I remember thinking Wes Johnson and Xavier Henry were too of the safest prospects possible. Sure they had low upside, but these guys were gonig to be 38%+ 3P shooters who defended at worst, right? Well WTF happened? So far their shooting has sucked. Maybe it's confidence, a tough situation, difficulty adjusting to a lower volume and touches, or maybe hitting just 78% FT in college was a better indicator than 42% from 3 that they were good shooting talents, but not best in the world phenoms or SF Redicks...

"Safe/low upside" can turn into "Flat out mediocore talent, better than everyone else at nothing" rather quickly IMO... just like "Risk/high upside" can turn into "His physical gifts gave him a guaranteed 30mpg". Maybe Drummond's floor is Javale McGee, but Barnes and MKG's are Marvin Williams and James Johnson..

+ 1

Very well put. Anyways, its UK vs Florida tonight. Supposed to be heavily scouted.

[dTox]

MKG is a good athlete but Iguodala and Wallace are absolutely ridiculous ones.

Still think MKG is as physically talented as a young Caron Butler, and like the Demar pick if he wants to be an all-star he'll have to rely on his skill game first and his solid athleticism 2nd - Though I think MKG's skill level is much more promising than young DD's was and is thus a better prospect

Assuming MKG is a dominant athlete will go the same way Derozan's dominant athleticism hype did IMO

Unlike Demar, MKG has a bigger body and brings more to the table than just scoring which is why I think he's a much better prospect and wont be solely advertised on his dunking abilities. He might not jump as high as a J-rich or a Gerald Wallace but if you look at their bodies at age 18 I think MKG comes out on top, he's also got a really good first step which is key to attacking the paint area (something guys like Demar and J-rich sorely lack, and is what turned Richardson into more of a jump shooter). A player's athleticism can't only be judged on their leaping abilities but things like their size, strength, lateral quickness, first steps, etc must be counted as well and MKG at 18 years old is impressive in most of those categories (which is also why he's a terrific defender).

[fredericklove]

The game starts in 4 mins, Im so excited, are you guys excited, cmon, show ur passion guys!

[SkywalkerAC]

damn. firstrowsports was seized. anyone have a hint for me?

[DreamTeam09]

^^its just a different .ending

[5DOM]

Don't ask for streams here. Search on Twitter or google it instead

[fredericklove]

damn. firstrowsports was seized. anyone have a hint for me?

I cannot do much to help you, I rather prefer you to find cheap tickets to get to the first row. I dont know what you think of EU basketball (European Union basketball), they are pretty good to watch too, oh right, dont forget first row seats, gotta love T dot, love the dot! Then yea, EU comes as my last favorite basketball.

[sunny]

its on 432 for me. gonna watch the whole thing.

[fredericklove]

AD manhandle the rebound in traffic, just so amazing

[fredericklove]

Gator is giving Kentucky a run, Im loving this. It should be a highly competitive game!

[fredericklove]

Davis is too passive in the post, should try to post him up

[fredericklove]

oh crap noooo MKG! but man did he crash the board like a man among boys, he did it twice already in this game.

[DreamTeam09]

Who is UK scorer? MKG is like last in line on totem pole over there...

[sunny]

Theres a good chance I'm going to be spending all of next year in Israel and the thing I care about most is missing out on our rookies next season.