Tribune: Thibodeau stresses players should play if .....

[P.C.]

Coldfish, I have to disagree on all counts.

No, this is one of those things where people make up some imaginary criteria and then hold the team accountable for it. Newsflash: Teams try to win as many games as they can and try to play the players who can play. The only time that teams really rest players intentionally is after they have clinched something. Maybe when you have really old players too.

I've never seen a coach play a player coming back from injuries through the end of blowouts like Thibodeau has the season. We can even broaden that: I've never seen a coach play players, regardless of whether they are healthy or not, through the end of blowouts like Thibodeau has this season.

Your statement about European ball is absolutely incorrect. Coaches cut the minutes for players coming off of injuries and play scrubs in garbage time just as they do in the US -- and they play in leagues where point differential is taken into account when there are ties in standings. So you're wrong, and even if you weren't wrong, you would be comparing apples and oranges. Never mind the fact that European games are only forty minutes long, and the games are consistently spaced out.

The coaches in European ball, furthermore, are able to game plan around injuries much better because of their increased practice time. When a player is coming off an injury they usually spend a good deal of time just working around the three point line, where they will sustain less contact, as they work back into things.

Regardless, what many of you are demanding is not typical for the NBA or its coaches. The Bulls are a young team trying to win a title. They also spread out their minutes more than just about any team in the NBA. The Bulls have 10 players who have got more than 320 minutes. Most teams only have 7 or 8.

The fact that this is a constant issue on the Bulls board is patently insane. You guys are just trying to find something to bitch about.

The Bulls have probably had more blowouts than any other team (see point differential) so your statement just doesn't hold. I just don't understand where you're coming from, Coldfish. You seem to be reaching to me: especially your comment about European ball. If you're actively reaching for support for a proposition than perhaps you've become stubborn on an issue and aren't seeing things clearly.

[BeKuK]

My friend, don't disagree with Coldfish! NEVER

[j-smooth]

Im with Thibs. These guys know when they can play. I trust the medical staff and coaches full heartedly. They know what they are doing.

[Cliff Levingston]

Cliff Levingston has got to agree with coldfish here and expand on it.

The moment you get complacent and think you don't need to play guys or play hard against sub-par competition, you get beat (or almost lose). Look at the Heat this year and their losses to some bad teams: can it be explained any other way really? That team has no excuse for losing to the Bucks twice.

You go out and attempt to win every game you can regardless of who it is. At this point, it doesn't matter that Miami has more quality wins than us because we've taken care of business and beaten down the lesser teams that we should beat and would go into the playoffs as the #1 seed if the playoffs started today... which is the goal of the regular season. If Derrick says he can play, he'll play, and did. Thibodeau had a pretty quick hook for him when A. it was apparent that Rose wasn't 100% and B. we had a huge lead. He came back with Rose with 4 minutes left in the 3rd quarter when NO was making a run, then gave him the start of the 3rd before coming back with C.J. quicker than he usually does.

People on this board just seem to need something to bitch about. Cliff Levingston gets it; it's awfully hard to have a board full of "yep, everything's awesome still" threads and actually have something to talk about.

[Ron Harper]

Rangers coach on 24/7 had a great view of injuries.

Something like "Being hurt is a mindset, there is a difference, if you can't play then you don't. But if you're in the training room, asking for games off, and getting massages I think that's a slippery slope. Playing hurt is a mindset that everyone has to deal with"

That's not exact, but it's the overall message. I agree 100%. Playing hurt is just something that happens. I'm sure a lot of you have done it. Things do heal. You can play through a lot of things, and you should because at some point you are going to have to.

It's not like one day you can say "okay, now I'm going to push myself through this" ...No, it's a mentality that you work for. You see how deep you can go mentally. You find where you can get that inner strength. It's completely and 100% necessary to be a champion and I think a lot of times (or even all of the time) this gets over looked on this board.

Play through pain, it's a mentality, and it's so so important.

[P.C.]

Cliff Levingston has got to agree with coldfish here and expand on it.

People on this board just seem to need something to bitch about. Cliff Levingston gets it; it's awfully hard to have a board full of "yep, everything's awesome still" threads and actually have something to talk about.

It's one thing to disagree, it's another thing to malign the people who disagree with you . . .

If you're looking for a reason why the Heat have won less games look to the fact that they are a fundamentally flawed team. No one sets out to build a team that has no interior presence or bench support. They're able to overcome it at playoff time because they have a group of players that are transcendent, but that doesn't mean you can expect those types of performances on a consistent basis in the regular season. There's more that can go wrong.

And wouldn't it be nice if Hamilton was building chemistry with the Bulls on the court now? Thibs rushed him into the rotation and he sustained an injury; and then it happened again at least another two times.

[Clocian]

can we let the guy coach instead of pretending like we know what's best for the team, thanks. this place has gotten rather annoying lately. "Oh we're better off without booz and rip!". "somebody knock out thibs for playing rose and deng!". "If butler doesn't play I'm going to thibs house...". I mean seriously...

what thibs is saying makes complete sense, if they're injured sit em, if they say they can go, let em play. I'm not one for sitting players all season long only for them to return to post season unless they're healing an injury.

[jumpmanjay]

No, this is one of those things where people make up some imaginary criteria and then hold the team accountable for it. Newsflash: Teams try to win as many games as they can and try to play the players who can play. The only time that teams really rest players intentionally is after they have clinched something. Maybe when you have really old players too.

Regardless, what many of you are demanding is not typical for the NBA or its coaches. The Bulls are a young team trying to win a title. They also spread out their minutes more than just about any team in the NBA. The Bulls have 10 players who have got more than 320 minutes. Most teams only have 7 or 8.

The fact that this is a constant issue on the Bulls board is patently insane. You guys are just trying to find something to bitch about.

i agree. i dont see how this is such a huge problem and a sore point on this board night in and night out. it seems that since boozer (and well, really, everyone on the team) has been playing well, we dont have anyone to crucify...so we pick thibs, i guess.

[BeKuK]

My problem with that is, that there are more than "only" one player in our roster who miss already games. So, you have to be careful as coach.

Look at our roster:

Hamilton: missed already 17 of 28 games
Watson missed 10 of 28 games
Deng: missed 7 of 28 games
Rose: missed 5 of 28 games
Gibson: missed 3 of 28 games
Noah: missed 1 of 28 games

A wonder that Boozer hasn't missed a game thus far!

I don't see the problem to sit one game which is an easy one. Seems like some special guys have trouble with that.

[Ron Harper]

here is the quote...he's a stanley cup winning coach btw


John Tortorella: “I have a tough time seeing players in the trainers room every day getting rubbed, and they’re sore, and they’re getting this done, that done. I think athletes can create more problems for themselves than there really is. I think that’s part of a mindset.”

[P.C.]

i agree. i dont see how this is such a huge problem and a sore point on this board night in and night out. it seems that since boozer (and well, really, everyone on the team) has been playing well, we dont have anyone to crucify...so we pick thibs, i guess.

I'll stop picking on Thibs when anyone here can point out another example of player posting 41 minutes and closing a twenty-point blowout, at the start of a long road trip, when that player is coming off a potentially season-ending injury. That's Deng against Milwaukee.

There are a lot of people here who've seen a lot of basketball.

Anybody have a similar game in mind?

. . . crickets

[Cliff Levingston]

It's one thing to disagree, it's another thing to malign the people who disagree with you . . .

Something else to complain about now?

No, it's just tiring to hear people complain about the most trivial of things and then blow it out of proportion. We've got an amazing record through lots of injuries and road games, are top 5 in defensive and offensive efficiency while being #1 in rebounding. Yet, things need to change!!! Huh?

If you're looking for a reason why the Heat have won less games look to the fact that they are a fundamentally flawed team. No one sets out to build a team that has no interior presence or bench support. They're able to overcome it at playoff time because they have a group of players that are transcendent, but that doesn't mean you can expect those types of performances on a consistent basis in the regular season. There's more that can go wrong.

Yea, they're flawed, every team is in some way... but you're saying that they're flawed enough to lose to the Bucks at home. You'd have a hard time convincing Cliff Levingston that the Heat, led by the 3 Egos, lost to a Bucks team for any other reason than they thought they didn't need to play as hard.

And wouldn't it be nice if Hamilton was building chemistry with the Bulls on the court now? Thibs rushed him into the rotation and he sustained an injury; and then it happened again at least another two times.

You make it sound like Thibodeau was in Rip's face telling "i don't care if you're hurt, you're playing!" Rip himself has said that he really wants to be on the floor and guys can play through injury. Is it a coincidence that Rip was out for a few games, came back for Detroit then sat out for 5 more games. You think Thibodeau got in his face saying "I DON'T CARE IF YOU'RE HURT, YOU'RE PLAYING DAMNIT, ICE!!!!" Not a chance; Rip wanted to stick it to his old team and re aggravated the injury because of it.

It's about as simple as this: if you say you can play, you'll play. Thibodeau will lean on his best players to win games when they're available. The only gripe you'll find from Cliff Levingston about Thibodeau is that he waits too long into blowouts to empty the bench. That's it.

[Lauri_Legend]

from no-nonsense hes gotten to very nonsense. he should rest rose alot esp since they had a easy schedule past few games

[P.C.]

here is the quote...he's a stanley cup winning coach btw


John Tortorella: “I have a tough time seeing players in the trainers room every day getting rubbed, and they’re sore, and they’re getting this done, that done. I think athletes can create more problems for themselves than there really is. I think that’s part of a mindset.”

And that's why basketball players have longer careers now than they did twenty years ago -- they spend less time taking care of their bodies in the training room.

Twenty years ago they were all like, ice this, stim that . . . have to take care of your knees.

Now days players are much smarter and steer clear of trainers.

Or is it the opposite of that?

[DuckIII]

No, this is one of those things where people make up some imaginary criteria and then hold the team accountable for it. Newsflash: Teams try to win as many games as they can and try to play the players who can play. The only time that teams really rest players intentionally is after they have clinched something. Maybe when you have really old players too.

Regardless, what many of you are demanding is not typical for the NBA or its coaches. The Bulls are a young team trying to win a title. They also spread out their minutes more than just about any team in the NBA. The Bulls have 10 players who have got more than 320 minutes. Most teams only have 7 or 8.

The fact that this is a constant issue on the Bulls board is patently insane. You guys are just trying to find something to bitch about.

Co-sign. I agree 100% with everything Thibs said. This is one of the absolute biggest non-issues I've ever seen the board collectively fret over.

And doug, trotting out that quip from Rose about being worn out is unconvincing. That could have meant anything. He'd played 3 post-season series for the first time in his life, most of it on a bad wheel. And had to carry the load offensively. There is absolutely no patent correlation between that comment and his regular season minutes. None. It drives me crazy that people keep citing that as some sort of evidence that Thibs' rotational philosophy is flawed.

[DuckIII]

i agree. i dont see how this is such a huge problem and a sore point on this board night in and night out. it seems that since boozer (and well, really, everyone on the team) has been playing well, we dont have anyone to crucify...so we pick thibs, i guess.

I'll stop picking on Thibs when anyone here can point out another example of player posting 41 minutes and closing a twenty-point blowout, at the start of a long road trip, when that player is coming off a potentially season-ending injury. That's Deng against Milwaukee.

There are a lot of people here who've seen a lot of basketball.

Anybody have a similar game in mind?

. . . crickets

I don't have a game in mind. And I don't need one. The fact that it was Deng's first game back after an extended absence is, in itself, a validation of the minutes. For all you know - or for all I know - Deng wanted those extra minutes to shake off the rust in low stress blow-out context, and Thibs agreed for basketball reasons.

Deng's tendon is already torn. Its a pain tolerance thing. And Deng has firmly proven that his extended minutes do not adversely impact his game or his health.

[BuffaloBull]

No, this is one of those things where people make up some imaginary criteria and then hold the team accountable for it. Newsflash: Teams try to win as many games as they can and try to play the players who can play. The only time that teams really rest players intentionally is after they have clinched something. Maybe when you have really old players too.

Regardless, what many of you are demanding is not typical for the NBA or its coaches. The Bulls are a young team trying to win a title. They also spread out their minutes more than just about any team in the NBA. The Bulls have 10 players who have got more than 320 minutes. Most teams only have 7 or 8.

The fact that this is a constant issue on the Bulls board is patently insane. You guys are just trying to find something to bitch about.

Co-sign. I agree 100% with everything Thibs said. This is one of the absolute biggest non-issues I've ever seen the board collectively fret over.

And doug, trotting out that quip from Rose about being worn out is unconvincing. That could have meant anything. He'd played 3 post-season series for the first time in his life, most of it on a bad wheel. And had to carry the load offensively. There is absolutely no patent correlation between that comment and his regular season minutes. None. It drives me crazy that people keep citing that as some sort of evidence that Thibs' rotational philosophy is flawed.

Cosign. And by the numbers, Derrick's bearing less of a load than he did last year: his usage is down, and especially when Rip is out there we have a secondary offense that allows Rose to be a little more choosing about when to use his turbo boost.

One thing people here are overlooking is that there is a "mind over matter" aspect to winning at a championship level. You have to learn how to play through pain and fatigue, to execute no matter what. It's a skill. And part of the job of the regular season is to hone that mindset.

That doesn't mean you throw all commonsense out the window and work guys to the bone (and to my mind, Thibs doesn't). But you do encourage your guys to play like warriors.

There's a difference between playing through pain and playing injured, and as a professional, elite athlete, I'm sure Derrick knows his own limits better than anyone on this board. And he doesn't need Thibs to be his babysitter.

[P.C.]

You make it sound like Thibodeau was in Rip's face telling "i don't care if you're hurt, you're playing!"

Thibs told the media that Rip would play the very first preseason game in Indiana. And that was after all of one day of practice with the team. Rip sat that one out, mind you. But if you're trying to tell me that Thibs didn't put pressure on Rip to play early and that the pressure may have backfired in the form of a lingering injury I'm not buying.

Again, a lot of experienced basketball watchers seem to disagree with me here: find me another example of a situation like Deng closing out the game in Milwaukee. It shouldn't be hard to come up with a comparison if Thib's decisions are business as usual, and not the radical coaching decisions I contend that they are.

[BeKuK]

[quote="DuckIII"] ..... [quote]


Nice to see you Duck.....I was waiting for your statement.
Now I'm just waiting for Mr no.3 and for Mr 3 1/2....and the dream team is PERFECT!!!

It's incredible how some "old guys" oh sorry, I meant some "experts" here the ability have to destroy threads when they disagree; with s*** like:

You guys are just trying to find something to bitch about.

Thanks guys.....

[kozelkid]

This could become a problem in the long run, if it isn't one already. I know a lot of us are enamored with Thibs because of what he has done this past season, and what he continues to do this year, but let's put things in perspective for a bit. There is a reason why a guy like Rip Hamilton shouldn't have been playing a couple games. He just ended up re-aggravating his injury. Some of this stuff isn't likely to come out until after Thibs leaves the organization. To think that he can do wrong is just idiocy in my opinion.

No, this is one of those things where people make up some imaginary criteria and then hold the team accountable for it. Newsflash: Teams try to win as many games as they can and try to play the players who can play. The only time that teams really rest players intentionally is after they have clinched something. Maybe when you have really old players too.

Regardless, what many of you are demanding is not typical for the NBA or its coaches. The Bulls are a young team trying to win a title. They also spread out their minutes more than just about any team in the NBA. The Bulls have 10 players who have got more than 320 minutes. Most teams only have 7 or 8.

The fact that this is a constant issue on the Bulls board is patently insane. You guys are just trying to find something to bitch about.

Pretty much. I'm rather amused reading from the "armchair Bulls' trainers and coaches" in this forum.