Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 5

[_Choco_]

Thoughts on Isaiah Canaan with our 2nd rounder? Little man, big heart. He has Murray State at 20 something and 0.

Canaan, Denmon and some others are interesting for a 2nd. I really hope no picks are applied to true "project" types.

[Rapsfan07]

Realistically I can see Toronto with Barnes, MKG, Lamb, or Miller. The next step would be

Trade Bayless + Ed Davis for Tony Wroten, the 6'5 PG?


Wroten
DD
Barnes
Bargnani
Jonas

Too much for Wroten. If he's in the 20+ range, I'd deal Ed alone. That should do the trick. Maybe some cash but nothing more than that. My hope is that we deal Calderon and Barbosa to the Lakers and get both their picks (Dallas & Lakers). He should be in our range then and if not, we can use them to move up and grab him instead of dealing players that we already have.

[Tough Tony D]

RealSkipBayless Skip Bayless
Something is wrong when a player as talented as Harrison Barnes lets his team get outscored 13-2 in final 2:10 at home by arch rival.
Il y a 32 minutes

I don't often agree with Skip, but I do on this one. Barnes is talented, and I would be happy to get him. But he doesnt have that ''it'' factor.

[Kabookalu]

Realistically I can see Toronto with Barnes, MKG, Lamb, or Miller. The next step would be

Trade Bayless + Ed Davis for Tony Wroten, the 6'5 PG?


Wroten
DD
Barnes
Bargnani
Jonas

Too much for Wroten. If he's in the 20+ range, I'd deal Ed alone. That should do the trick. Maybe some cash but nothing more than that. My hope is that we deal Calderon and Barbosa to the Lakers and get both their picks (Dallas & Lakers). He should be in our range then and if not, we can use them to move up and grab him instead of dealing players that we already have.

Is Tony Wroten still going by his high school highlights? The guy is a terrible point guard and not much better as a shooting guard. He makes flashy passes from time to time, but so did Roko Ukic and he was clueless on how to run an offense. Ed Davis and Jerryd Bayless for Tony Wroten would be one of the worst trades in history.

[Marlo Stanfield]

I want Wroten, but as a SG. No way I'm bringing him in as a Point because I could just keep Jerryd.

[sunny]

The next time someone suggests a prospect like Tony Wroten, im going to make sure they watch clips of JB and DD in college before they post again.

[Kabookalu]

Can someone explain to me why there is still love for Quincy Miller right now? He just seems to have so many bad/terrible games and float for long stretches. Add in a surgically repaired ACL and some maturity questions and I just don't see him as a top prospect especially for this team. What are others seeing that I'm missing?

I've soured on him over the season. Really thought Baylor was going to be a force because of Miller, and they're anything but. With a few more seasons in college he could be great, but not quite the prospect I originally envisioned.

[DreamTeam09]

RealSkipBayless Skip Bayless
Something is wrong when a player as talented as Harrison Barnes lets his team get outscored 13-2 in final 2:10 at home by arch rival.
Il y a 32 minutes

I don't often agree with Skip, but I do on this one. Barnes is talented, and I would be happy to get him. But he doesnt have that ''it'' factor.

Thats **** BS man.....

[Undefeated]

Can someone explain to me why there is still love for Quincy Miller right now? He just seems to have so many bad/terrible games and float for long stretches. Add in a surgically repaired ACL and some maturity questions and I just don't see him as a top prospect especially for this team. What are others seeing that I'm missing?

Out of all the top lotto wing prospects from this year's draft, I want a player that can potentially fill at least some of these glaring needs that the Raptors are sorely lacking from the wing; shoot the three-ball with consistency (Q. Miller shooting 41.7% on 2.2 3PtA), a playmaker that can create easy baskets for his teammates, the ability to create something out of nothing with the ball in his hands when the shot-clock is winding down, can create his own offense off the dribble, and a go-to-scorer during the clutch. But the biggest need of all, is a wing that is ball-dominant because looking at the current make-up of the Raptors, the team consists of players like DeMar and Ed that excel when they're playing off of a dynamic player which I think Quincy Miller is with his ability to handle the rock, create for his teammates and score on iso plays. The backcourt just lacks a player with ankle breaking ball-handling skills and court vision. The only prospects I see who are able to fill these needs the best while having a high ceiling are probably Jeremy Lamb, Harrison Barnes and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. Only Jeremy Lamb has the ball-handling skills that's better than Quincy Miller, then again, I don't think his court vision compares to Quincy Miller. He just seems to be the complete SF along with the potential big time scorer label in this draft when he puts everything together. That's why I think Quincy Miller is the guy for the Raptors.

That being said, he still needs a lot of work on his overall floor game because he can't just be a iso heavy scorer or else he'll be rendered useless when he doesn't have the ball. Although, I have seen him playing off-the-ball better lately: coming off of a down pick usually set by Perry Jones III for the catch-and-shoot at the elbow which seems to be his sweet spot. And part of the reason why Quincy Miller goes through stretches where he looks invisible is due to the fact that Baylor runs their offense heavily through Perry Jones III in the low-block and it doesn't help that Pierre Jackson is always bringing the ball up, dribbling around aimlessly when he can't get the ball inside to Perry Jones only to hoist up a long-range shot.

Quincy was never that of an explosive athlete in high school, so I don't know why people keep bringing up the ACL. It's a concern, but not that big of an issue. His dribble game was always reliant on ball-handling, hesitation moves, change of speeds and his length that covers so much ground. He's more of a smooth and fluid athlete that when he's fully recovered from the injury, he should look more or less look the same he did in high school. As for his maturity issues, it depends how you look at it. I see a player with the swagger who plays with a chip on his shoulder and can eventually lead a team some day.

[U_Mad]

AD or Barnes




or bust

[dballislife]

one of

drummond
davis
barnes
kidd
lamb

and this will be a happy season for me

[Crazy-Canuck]

I think MKG will play into the top 3 after the tourney.

[Reignman]

RealSkipBayless Skip Bayless
Something is wrong when a player as talented as Harrison Barnes lets his team get outscored 13-2 in final 2:10 at home by arch rival.
Il y a 32 minutes

I don't often agree with Skip, but I do on this one. Barnes is talented, and I would be happy to get him. But he doesnt have that ''it'' factor.

Barnes has killed many teams on crunch time, in fact i find he plays better in the second half. last season he lead the ncaa on game winners w 5.

[Undefeated]

Is Tony Wroten still going by his high school highlights? The guy is a terrible point guard and not much better as a shooting guard. He makes flashy passes from time to time, but so did Roko Ukic and he was clueless on how to run an offense. Ed Davis and Jerryd Bayless for Tony Wroten would be one of the worst trades in history.

Nah, Tony Wroten has been ballin' lately. From the games I've seen, like 2 or 3 games, he's actually not that bad at finding and setting up his teammates. I find that, he's more of a risk-taker with his passing going for the "ooh's and ahh's" instead of making simple passes. His court-vision is stellar, though. He'll routinely find his bigs around the basket darting laser beam passes from the wing, but sometimes, it gets picked off because he's trying to squeeze the pass inside through congested traffic in the lane. Still, he's good at the draw-and-kick when he sees an open man on the perimeter, dump off passes when penetrating the defense (bread-and-butter) or stepping into a crossover for the shovel pass. If he learns to pace himself and slow down, the turnovers should cut down. But it's kind of hard to gauge how well Wroten runs an offense because of the talent that's on the roster and lack of a big to run a two-man game.

Wroten isn't even considered lotto bound by most teams either way, so giving up two former lotto picks is way too much when they still got potential. I mean, there's still a nice crop of PGs coming out next year like Josiah Turner, Ryan Harrow, and Myck Kabongo if he decides not to declare that the Raptors can wait for.

[Tough Tony D]

RealSkipBayless Skip Bayless
Something is wrong when a player as talented as Harrison Barnes lets his team get outscored 13-2 in final 2:10 at home by arch rival.
Il y a 32 minutes

I don't often agree with Skip, but I do on this one. Barnes is talented, and I would be happy to get him. But he doesnt have that ''it'' factor.

Barnes has killed many teams on crunch time, in fact i find he plays better in the second half. last season he lead the ncaa on game winners w 5.

I don't necessarily mean clutch shots late. More like swagger. And this season he has disapointed me against the big teams. Kentucky first, now Duke. In the Kentucky game, he just spot up to shoot. Was on fire from 3 going 4/5. But finished the game 4/12 fg, 0 ft 14 points 2 rebs 1 blck. And he didnt take the last shot to try to win it late (Henson did and was rejected by Davis)(In that same game MKG went 6/10 fg, 7 ft, 17 pts, 11 rebs, 1 ast, 1 blck, 1 stl. And came up big in the second half and was all over the place. Now against Duke, he doesnt do anything to stop the run, isnt the one on rivers defending him (not his fault necessaraly), his last contributions were missed ft's and an offensive charge). He's still very good and I would be happy to have him, but he didnt take his game to another level in his 2nd year like I tought he would. His shooting is improved wich is very nice, but rebounding is down, passing is down, ft shooting is down.

[Undefeated]

RealSkipBayless Skip Bayless
Something is wrong when a player as talented as Harrison Barnes lets his team get outscored 13-2 in final 2:10 at home by arch rival.
Il y a 32 minutes

I don't often agree with Skip, but I do on this one. Barnes is talented, and I would be happy to get him. But he doesnt have that ''it'' factor.

And something was wrong when UNC didn't capitalize on the match-up between Barnes and Rivers who had him in the post .

[DarkKnight]

Could also have something to do with the obvious trip when he drove it late that went uncalled, and instead he gets a charge. He was playing on a sprained ankle and basically dominated the second half. The end of the game was basically:

Duke 3 - UNC up 7
Marshall TO
Duke travels, no call, Duke 3 - UNC up 4
Barnes tripped, No call, Charge-turnover
Zeller/Henson don't box out Kelly, O-reb 2 for duke - unc up 2
Zeller hits 1 0f 2 = unc up 3
Zeller tips in airball for duke - UNC up 1
Zeller hits 1 of 2 - unc up 2
Rivers hits 3 over zeller - duke wins by 1

You can blame this loss on 1) The refs (terrible no-calls on the obvious trip and travel), on 2) Zeller's terrible end of game sequence (missed rebound, tip in for duke, 2 bricked fts, failure to get up on rivers with 2 seconds left), or 3) duke getting hot at the end and making 3 of their last 4 3's. You absolutely cannot balme barnes, who didn't get given the ball at the end and who had like 17 in the second half on great %s.

[sunny]

although its still early - the 2013 draft looks quite weak while the 2014 draft should be one of the better ones of the decade.

[Dalek]

Is Tony Wroten still going by his high school highlights? The guy is a terrible point guard and not much better as a shooting guard. He makes flashy passes from time to time, but so did Roko Ukic and he was clueless on how to run an offense. Ed Davis and Jerryd Bayless for Tony Wroten would be one of the worst trades in history.

Nah, Tony Wroten has been ballin' lately. From the games I've seen, like 2 or 3 games, he's actually not that bad at finding and setting up his teammates. I find that, he's more of a risk-taker with his passing going for the "ooh's and ahh's" instead of making simple passes. His court-vision is stellar, though. He'll routinely find his bigs around the basket darting laser beam passes from the wing, but sometimes, it gets picked off because he's trying to squeeze the pass inside through congested traffic in the lane. Still, he's good at the draw-and-kick when he sees an open man on the perimeter, dump off passes when penetrating the defense (bread-and-butter) or stepping into a crossover for the shovel pass. If he learns to pace himself and slow down, the turnovers should cut down. But it's kind of hard to gauge how well Wroten runs an offense because of the talent that's on the roster and lack of a big to run a two-man game.

Wroten isn't even considered lotto bound by most teams either way, so giving up two former lotto picks is way too much when they still got potential. I mean, there's still a nice crop of PGs coming out next year like Josiah Turner, Ryan Harrow, and Myck Kabongo if he decides not to declare that the Raptors can wait for.

I like Wroten a lot because he looks like an NBA player, including the frame to be a big point who can also split time at the two. The big question is whether he will be the next Iman Shumpert or the next Lance Stephenson. I think he is not a big headcase, but I think his draft rating takes a hit because of more off-court stuff than what he can do on the court.

[Dalek]

Could also have something to do with the obvious trip when he drove it late that went uncalled, and instead he gets a charge. He was playing on a sprained ankle and basically dominated the second half. The end of the game was basically:

Duke 3 - UNC up 7
Marshall TO
Duke travels, no call, Duke 3 - UNC up 4
Barnes tripped, No call, Charge-turnover
Zeller/Henson don't box out Kelly, O-reb 2 for duke - unc up 2
Zeller hits 1 0f 2 = unc up 3
Zeller tips in airball for duke - UNC up 1
Zeller hits 1 of 2 - unc up 2
Rivers hits 3 over zeller - duke wins by 1

You can blame this loss on 1) The refs (terrible no-calls on the obvious trip and travel), on 2) Zeller's terrible end of game sequence (missed rebound, tip in for duke, 2 bricked fts, failure to get up on rivers with 2 seconds left), or 3) duke getting hot at the end and making 3 of their last 4 3's. You absolutely cannot balme barnes, who didn't get given the ball at the end and who had like 17 in the second half on great %s.

Zeller blew it for UNC and there is no way around it. He tipped in the airball rather than secure the rebound, missed his own freethrow and he was the one guarding Rivers who he should have made drive with the last seconds on the clock. Sorry to restate what you wrote but it is clear that Zeller was the goat yesterday.