Rose and the Pick and Roll Update--more video pg. 5

[Rerisen]

Cool stuff. A lot of new things going on lately. One, Noah looks healthy, energized and is finishing better. Luol Deng is back, and naturally spaces out to the three much better than Ronnie at the SF, and of course is more respected from there, opening up room for the pick player to 'slip inside' better as Alucryts said in the OP.

Last though, I agree that Rose is becoming more deft with his passing. Not just on the PnR either, but he is also holding the ball longer on the break, forcing the defense to commit to him, before giving a last minute pass to a teammate, who just has an easy finish. We saw a lot of look away passes vs the Knicks, I think showing that Rose is learning how much of a threat he can be just using subtle misdirections.

Derrick used to be kind of bad passing on the break, giving up the ball too early, and you'd see guys like Noah, Deng or Ronnie then fumbling to finish over defenders. When Rip gets back, our break should continue to improve even more.

[alucryts]

Cool stuff. A lot of new things going on lately. One, Noah looks healthy, energized and is finishing better. Luol Deng is back, and naturally spaces out to the three much better than Ronnie at the SF, and of course is more respected from there, opening up room for the pick player to 'slip inside' better as Alucryts said in the OP.

Last though, I agree that Rose is becoming more deft with his passing. Not just on the PnR either, but he is also holding the ball longer on the break, forcing the defense to commit to him, before giving a last minute pass to a teammate, who just has an easy finish. We saw a lot of look away passes vs the Knicks, I think showing that Rose is learning how much of a threat he can be just using subtle misdirections.

Derrick used to be kind of bad passing on the break, giving up the ball too early, and you'd see guys like Noah, Deng or Ronnie then fumbling to finish over defenders. When Rip gets back, our break should continue to improve even more.

I agree. Noah is playing off of Rose much much much better now that we don't need to see the Noah dribble horror show. I have seen a lot of misdirection in Rose's passing as well.

[Rerisen]

Sidenote on Deng, he is 7-15 behind the arc since coming back (47%). It's a big boon for the offense if he has that shot back on track. Oddly though he has NO FTA in 3 games since returning. I wonder if this is an intentional tradeoff he is going to make with the wrist, trying to score outside a little more, vs risking banging that wrist inside. We haven't seen a lot of inside offensive rebounds that he sometimes gets fighting vs defenders. This won't be a problem if his shot keeps falling. But something to watch going forward perhaps.

[kyrv]

Thanks again allucryts it was my perception that they actually run it more with Noah than Boozer, and not that much with CJ Waaaatttttssssoooonnn.

Good point on Melo, I think I was giving his ball handling skills an undeserved huge bump. Maybe he's not the ideal playmaker and maybe he knows this maybe that's why he is struggling (well in part). Probably not fair of me that despite his skills, to just assume he can play basically PG for the Knick.


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Re good notes on Deng, now that you mention it he doesn't seem to be slashing. This may be temporary, and if so is pretty cool, well, as you said, as long as he is draining 3's at a decent clip.

[pduh01]

I love you alucryts don't tell KC about that I'm afraid he might get jealous

Seriously great stuff man and I did notice the much improve P&R game what I am hoping is the improvement of the P&R game is against a team like Pacers & Heat probably to a degree the 76ers as well.

[tcduke]

this is OT, but alucryts: you are easily my favorite poster on this forum. You deserve a ton of props for the amount of effort you put into threads like this or the Heat finals analysis. So thank you for all the work and effort you put into these, it's much appreciated.

[costasge]

AAA work and analysis. just point something, MIL and NOH gave to us too many easy pnr. no switch on defence. There is something that I am wondering of, is Drose better passer than scorer? should he passed the ball more?

[panthermark]

First...I would like to say....GREAT THREAD!

Sidenote on Deng, he is 7-15 behind the arc since coming back (47%). It's a big boon for the offense if he has that shot back on track. Oddly though he has NO FTA in 3 games since returning. I wonder if this is an intentional tradeoff he is going to make with the wrist, trying to score outside a little more, vs risking banging that wrist inside. We haven't seen a lot of inside offensive rebounds that he sometimes gets fighting vs defenders. This won't be a problem if his shot keeps falling. But something to watch going forward perhaps.

Re....good point...but I think it is something else as well.

Something I had pointed out during the game was our lack of FT shooting over the last few games. It may be a matter of the Bulls blowing out bad teams and the Bulls getting shafted on calls....but it is still jacked up.

Mil - 19 FT's, Chicago 4FT's.....Bulls won by 23
NJ - 26 FT's, Chicago 23 FT's....Bulls won by 21
NOH - 17 FT's, Chicago 12 FT's...Bulls won by 23

It is odd that such an elite team gets to the line so little. Bulls are 22nd in FTA% (of FG's) per game....(Philly is dead last BTW).

[Rerisen]

Rose is being a lot more... judicious, I guess is the word about how he manages games. And he can afford to be with more help this year. Vs a team like Miami he'll attack a lot, but against scrub teams, he seems content to manage the game through his teammates - unless he is pissed off at someone, like Brandon Jennings or John Wall. Then he will just disembowel them the first 5 minutes and coast the rest of the way.

[alucryts]

AAA work and analysis. just point something, MIL and NOH gave to us too many easy pnr. no switch on defence. There is something that I am wondering of, is Drose better passer than scorer? should he passed the ball more?

Thanks for the kind words everyone.

The key to Rose's game is that no one on the defense should know at any point whether or not he is setting up a team mate or he is setting up himself. When he does decide, the decision has to be strong and swift so that the defense has no chance. The biggest problem is that Rose has always been a much better scorer than he was a passer. With these latest improvement, he is starting to make his passing just as deadly as his scoring. When teams fear both his passing and scoring, he will be a complete player.

One thing the Bulls should work on is being deceptive in how they bring up the screen so that the defense cannot blitz Rose even if they want to. If the blitz/trap occurs, the pick and roll is dead and Rose has to find the open shooter. If we run the pick and roll in a way where the defense can't blitz unless they are psychic, then we force them to play the pick and roll much like what I showed here.

[alucryts]

Sidenote on Deng, he is 7-15 behind the arc since coming back (47%). It's a big boon for the offense if he has that shot back on track. Oddly though he has NO FTA in 3 games since returning. I wonder if this is an intentional tradeoff he is going to make with the wrist, trying to score outside a little more, vs risking banging that wrist inside. We haven't seen a lot of inside offensive rebounds that he sometimes gets fighting vs defenders. This won't be a problem if his shot keeps falling. But something to watch going forward perhaps.

It is more important to have a killer shooter in Deng's role on our team than an inside scorer. If Deng can develop into a shooter that teams fear outside (one of those players where when they catch a pass your stomach drops) our offense will explode. With the pick and roll on our team, you can get an open three for one player every single time. If the trap happens, you can get an open 3 for a player every single time. I absolutely guarantee this. If Deng can be this he will EXPLODE in our offense.

Luol Deng is a 41% spot up 3 point shooter this season on 44 shots.

[Rerisen]

The key to Rose's game is that no one on the defense should know at any point whether or not he is setting up a team mate or he is setting up himself.

Rose has come so far on this point. I remember discussions his rookie year about how it was so obvious that Rose would come down one possessions and look to score, then come down the next and look to pass.

He still gets going so hard on some of his drives that it's hard to make good passes, but simply as a PG, his progress has been immense. Of course he never even consistently ran PnR till the pro's, what with the dribble drive motion offense under Cal.

[alucryts]

The key to Rose's game is that no one on the defense should know at any point whether or not he is setting up a team mate or he is setting up himself.

Rose has come so far on this point. I remember discussions his rookie year about how it was so obvious that Rose would come down one possessions and look to score, then come down the next and look to pass.

He still gets going so hard on some of his drives that it's hard to make good passes, but simply as a PG, his progress has been immense. Of course he never even consistently ran PnR till the pro's, what with the dribble drive motion offense under Cal.

I think he still pigeon holes himself, but he has come a long way. As he grows, he'll go into a play not know what he is going to do and simply react to the defense.

[dougthonus]

I read this title and thought it said "Rose and the Rick Roll update" to which I thought Rose is rick rolling people? That's awesome.

[Godzilla039]

Even though the numbers don't quite show it yet, I've been pleasently surprised with Rose's passing this season. He started off slow trying to figure out the angles but lately he's shown flashes of what I want to see from him. He starting to get in the paint, wait for a defender to commit and dro it off to the open big. Love that ish. All he needs is moe consistency but he's getting there. I also like what he's done in the PnR. Jus wish we ran it more. Last part of his evolution is to realize chest passes to Noah/Asik is the paint is low%. Jus lob it at the rim!

[alucryts]

I read this title and thought it said "Rose and the Rick Roll update" to which I thought Rose is rick rolling people? That's awesome.

Now that would make a great video

[alucryts]

Even though the numbers don't quite show it yet, I've been pleasently surprised with Rose's passing this season. He started off slow trying to figure out the angles but lately he's shown flashes of what I want to see from him. He starting to get in the paint, wait for a defender to commit and dro it off to the open big. Love that ish. All he needs is moe consistency but he's getting there. I also like what he's done in the PnR. Jus wish we ran it more. Last part of his evolution is to realize chest passes to Noah/Asik is the paint is low%. Jus lob it at the rim!

I would like to see him utilize lobs more. Not even as dunks, but soft/high passes for the bigs to go up and get.

[pduh01]

Even though the numbers don't quite show it yet, I've been pleasently surprised with Rose's passing this season. He started off slow trying to figure out the angles but lately he's shown flashes of what I want to see from him. He starting to get in the paint, wait for a defender to commit and dro it off to the open big. Love that ish. All he needs is moe consistency but he's getting there. I also like what he's done in the PnR. Jus wish we ran it more. Last part of his evolution is to realize chest passes to Noah/Asik is the paint is low%. Jus lob it at the rim!

I would like to see him utilize lobs more. Not even as dunks, but soft/high passes for the bigs to go up and get.

That what kinda drives me insane right now there are times that may have some good looks to throw a lobs especially to our bigs like Noah or asik, or throw high enough for the bigs to catch the ball.

I remember when Rip was playing he throw those good high passes to Asik which he catch the ball either get a easy basket or draw enough contact to get the foul. Asik we know he doesn't have good hands but I do think if you throw high enough for him I do believe it is good enough for him to catch the pass.

[alucryts]

Even though the numbers don't quite show it yet, I've been pleasently surprised with Rose's passing this season. He started off slow trying to figure out the angles but lately he's shown flashes of what I want to see from him. He starting to get in the paint, wait for a defender to commit and dro it off to the open big. Love that ish. All he needs is moe consistency but he's getting there. I also like what he's done in the PnR. Jus wish we ran it more. Last part of his evolution is to realize chest passes to Noah/Asik is the paint is low%. Jus lob it at the rim!

I would like to see him utilize lobs more. Not even as dunks, but soft/high passes for the bigs to go up and get.

That what kinda drives me insane right now there are times that may have some good looks to throw a lobs especially to our bigs like Noah or asik, or throw high enough for the bigs to catch the ball.

I remember when Rip was playing he throw those good high passes to Asik which he catch the ball either get a easy basket or draw enough contact to get the foul. Asik we know he doesn't have good hands but I do think if you throw high enough for him I do believe it is good enough for him to catch the pass.

Asik looked a lot better with those high passes from Rip. Asik seemed to be thriving off of those.

[Godzilla039]

Yup. It's too much of a burden for Noah/Asik to catch the ball, gather the ball, go up and dunk without fumbling it/getting stripped or fouled. Rose HAS to realize this and jus lob the ball at the rim. Hopefully he will. Sooner rather than later.