Josh Smith and Monta Ellis got screwed! (again...)

[dice]

monta ellis is not a very good basketball player. most stat-inflated player in the league?

bad shooter, bad defender, lots of turnovers...

[Ettorefm]

Lol at the "How is steve Nash IN and Monta OUT?"
.
Steve Nash deserves to be an All Star this year no matter what. If you want to complain about anyone, complain about the CRAPPY season Dirk is having and still got to the ASG. Complain about Joe Johnson. Complain about Luol Deng.

[Dr Positivity]

Smith yes, Monta no

[coldgrip1]

monta ellis is not a very good basketball player. most stat-inflated player in the league?

bad shooter, bad defender, lots of turnovers...

Quite a stretch. Monta plays through all kinda injuries. Dude is a soldier. Those less-than-healthy games severely hurt his stats, but he don't care.

A guy with an automatic midrange jumper and among the best around the rim finishers is a bad shooter. Beyond me.

[Rapcity_11]

one of the most irrelevant stats of all time.

I guess you think that Kobe is a better defender than Tony Allen too? The opponent PER stats say so

I don't even like to use PER, however it's still a decent catch-all boxscore stat.

You claimed that PG's are having their best games against Nash and yet his opponent PER is 11.3. How is that possible?

It's a terribly innacurrate stat, but if what you were saying was even remotely true, it would show up. It also doesn't tell us who is the better defender, just what happened in the box-score on the court.

[panthermark]

I can come up with a bunch of stats to suggest that the Bulls are a better team when Rose is on the bench versus when he's on the floor. Wanna bet? I can even do the same for Dwight Howard (already did that in another thread). Find it hard to believe? Go look at Orlando's losses this year, Dwight Howard often has the worst plus/minus on the roster. He should get waived.

If Monta's defense is so bad, why can't Rose find any success playing him? Despite Rose playing PG and Ellis playing SG, they guard each other often. Stop lookin at stats and watch the game. Ellis rarely gets outplayed at the SG spot.

You see...people actually DO watch the games. And what people have noticed is that in that Monta would be better suited as a 6th man. He actually had his best season as a 6th man.

Big stats + mediocre at best efficiency + repeated losing seasons = Other players more deserving.

[dice]

monta ellis is not a very good basketball player. most stat-inflated player in the league?

bad shooter, bad defender, lots of turnovers...

Quite a stretch. Monta plays through all kinda injuries. Dude is a soldier. Those less-than-healthy games severely hurt his stats, but he don't care.

he shouldn't get credit for playing and hurting his team then

A guy with an automatic midrange jumper and among the best around the rim finishers is a bad shooter. Beyond me.

37% is automatic? 'cause that's what he's been over the past 4 seasons

i don't consider at the rim 'shooting'. but even if you do (and hell, throw in FTs)...

41/67 in TS% last year amongst guards playing majority minutes

maybe monta should stick to taking it to the hole

[SDtotheBay]

monta ellis is not a very good basketball player. most stat-inflated player in the league?

bad shooter, bad defender, lots of turnovers...

bad shooter?

his TOV% is at career high and it's still lower than Nash's, Curry's, Lebron's, Lawson's etc

[dice]

and while we're at it...

josh smith poor offensively, average rebounder, strong defensive presence...add it all up, you've got yourself a mediocre all-around player. no all-star for you!

[coldgrip1]

monta ellis is not a very good basketball player. most stat-inflated player in the league?

bad shooter, bad defender, lots of turnovers...

Quite a stretch. Monta plays through all kinda injuries. Dude is a soldier. Those less-than-healthy games severely hurt his stats, but he don't care.

he shouldn't get credit for playing and hurting his team then

A guy with an automatic midrange jumper and among the best around the rim finishers is a bad shooter. Beyond me.

37% is automatic? 'cause that's what he's been over the past 4 seasons

This kid should be banned for making up stats. Ellis career % is .470. Last 4 years is .471. That's very good for volume shooters.

For comparison, Kobe shoots .450 for his career. And in fact, has never hit .470 in any single season.

[betta1]

and while we're at it...

josh smith poor offensively, average rebounder, strong defensive presence...add it all up, you've got yourself a mediocre all-around player. no all-star for you!

Uh, what?

Deng averages 0.4 more ppg than Smith on less than 44% FG% to Smith's 47%.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/josh_smith/

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/luol_deng/

Deng making it to the ASG is the equivalent of Mo Williams making it when Lebron was in CLE. Just riding the alpha's coattails.

[betta1]

All you need to do is think about it this way: switch out Deng for Smith on the Hawks and they probably are lottery bound. Switch out Smith for Deng on the Bulls and Miami is sleeping a lot less at night.

No, both teams get worse. Removing Deng would leave a massive hole at the 3 for the Bulls.

Actually, Smith plays the 3 often. Hawks beat the Magic last year in the playoffs with Smith starting at SF.

[dice]

[monta's] TOV% is at career high and it's still lower than Nash's, Curry's, Lebron's, Lawson's etc

those are primarily point guards. compare apples to apples

monta was #9 in TO rate amongst majority minute SGs last season. and it's worse when you factor in his relatively low assist totals

[SDtotheBay]

[monta's] TOV% is at career high and it's still lower than Nash's, Curry's, Lebron's, Lawson's etc

those are primarily point guards. compare apples to apples

monta was #9 in TO rate amongst majority minute SGs last season. and it's worse when you factor in his relatively low assist totals

6.3 is relatively low? more than Lawson, Westbrook, 0.5 less than Lebron, more than Jennings, Wade, Iguodala.

Interesting. And I dont remember most of those sharing PG duties with another player who averages 7 apg.


last season he was 10th in TOV% and he was second in Assists. Most players below him in TOV% are Kobe or catch and shoot scorers who dont do much ball handling.

[coldgrip1]

[monta's] TOV% is at career high and it's still lower than Nash's, Curry's, Lebron's, Lawson's etc

those are primarily point guards. compare apples to apples

monta was #9 in TO rate amongst majority minute SGs last season. and it's worse when you factor in his relatively low assist totals

Stop posting dude. We don't need people who make up fake stats on this board. You still haven't answered how you came up with Ellis' 37% shooting. Reply to my post above and explain yourself.

Explain how league leading 6.3 assists per game at the SG spot is "relatively low".

Explain how a guy who led the whole league in minutes played last year regardless of position and ranked 9 in turnovers at his position is considered turnover prone.

Stop embarrassing yourself.

[Weems]

A guy with an automatic midrange jumper and among the best around the rim finishers is a bad shooter. Beyond me.

37% is automatic? 'cause that's what he's been over the past 4 seasons

This kid should be banned for making up stats. Ellis career % is .470. Last 4 years is also .47X.

Last season, when Monta had his highest FG% of the past 4 seasons, he wasn't a good shooter. He shot 37.6% from 3-9 feet, 31.6% from 10-15 feet, 38% from 16-23 feet, and 36.1% from 3. Nash, in his lowest FG% season of the past 6 seasons, shot 50.5% from 3-9 feet, 50.7% from 10-15 feet, 44% from 16-23 feet, and 39.5% from 3.

[SDtotheBay]

36% from 3 is good at his volume. But can I ask you why in the world are you comparing Nash and Monta as shooters?

[coldgrip1]

This kid should be banned for making up stats. Ellis career % is .470. Last 4 years is also .47X.

Last season, when Monta had his highest FG% of the past 4 seasons, he wasn't a good shooter. He shot 37.6% from 3-9 feet, 31.6% from 10-15 feet, 38% from 16-23 feet, and 36.1% from 3. Nash, in his lowest FG% season of the past 6 seasons, shot 50.5% from 3-9 feet, 50.7% from 10-15 feet, 44% from 16-23 feet, and 39.5% from 3.

They play different games. Those jump shots numbers you posted only suggest how superior Ellis is at making plays at the rim. Can you blame Dwight Howard for shooting a crappy number from 16-23 feet? Can you blame Rose for shooting poorly from 3s? Get out of here. What matters is the overall efficiency.

So now Monta sucks because his jump shot numbers don't compare favorably to statistically the best shooter of our generation in Nash.

You also conveniently left out Monta's best year 4 seasons ago at .530. Clever.

[KING CB4]

I agree completely with Monta not getting selected. I don't think he will ever be a top player on a team that is actually good, anytime soon.

[panthermark]

and while we're at it...

josh smith poor offensively, average rebounder, strong defensive presence...add it all up, you've got yourself a mediocre all-around player. no all-star for you!

Uh, what?

Deng averages 0.4 more ppg than Smith on less than 44% FG% to Smith's 47%.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/josh_smith/

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/luol_deng/

Deng making it to the ASG is the equivalent of Mo Williams making it when Lebron was in CLE. Just riding the alpha's coattails.

While I agree that Deng isn't the flashiest or most qualified All-Star to be selected this year...he isn't Mo Williams.

Mo made the All-Star team by scoring a career high 17.8 ppg and shooting a career high 43.6% from deep in 08-09. The two highest TS%'s for him were playing next to Bron in 08-09 and 09-10.

That isn't the case with Deng. Outside of an injury riddled 08-09 season where our crack medical staff could not diagnose a broken leg...Deng has been doing the same thing for the last 6 years. This is actually one of his "lesser" year...he is just getting more pub because the Bulls are winning. But Deng was doing "his thing" while Rose was still in high school....including leading a sweep of the Heat in the play-offs. His best year was actually 06-07.