Starting Lineup

[mrorng]

What are your thoughts on the starting lineup? I think that we may be better off with Redd starting in place of Dudley on a normal night. I think that Redd plays much better when he starts and not that Jared is better off the bench, but he brings a ton of energy. I think him coming off the bench can help with some of the major runs that we allow other teams to go on.

What are your thoughts or the lineup you would like to see and why?

[Wannabe MEP]

Hill should come off the bench because he's a poor off-ball scorer but he would be a good stabilizer for the bench. He can be a helpful secondary facilitator alongside someone like Price. He's not a good catch-and-shoot 3-point threat, and he's not a good slasher, so he's a poor fit with Nash. Our best starting unit has Dudley at the three and then a quick slasher (ideally who can shoot 3s) at the 2.

[RunDogGun]

Hill should come off the bench because he's a poor off-ball scorer but he would be a good stabilizer for the bench. He can be a helpful secondary facilitator alongside someone like Price. He's not a good catch-and-shoot 3-point threat, and he's not a good slasher, so he's a poor fit with Nash. Our best starting unit has Dudley at the three and then a quick slasher (ideally who can shoot 3s) at the 2.

But that means we have Hill and Chilldress in the second unit? I still don't really like Redd.

[Kerrsed]

Telfair/Brown/Dudley/Morris/Gortat is the starting 5 i want to see!

[bigfoot]

Telfair/Brown/Dudley/Morris/Gortat is the starting 5 i want to see!

I'm sorry but Telfair/Brown/D-LeagueScrub/Warrick/Lopez would rock your world !

[DRK]

Gortat
Morris
Dudley
Redd
Nash

I dont care if Morris says he wants to come off the bench, throw the man out there. Baptism of fire. The quicker our PF of the future than get accustomed to starting the better.

[nevetsov]

I don't think it matters as much, but Gentry needs to stop f***ing around with it. Pick something and go with it, you don't keep playing mix and match more than a third of the way through the season.

Redd and Morris played well tonight because someone had to.

Nash, Duds, Hill, Frye Gortat is ok most of the time.
Price, Redd, Childress, Morris, Lopez has had their moments (and should improve given consistent minutes).

Telfair should only play when Nash rests.
Warrick should only play when Hill rests.
Brown should only play when Redd rests.

Preserves the lineups as is so we don't lose familiarity.

Tonight, they should have started Telfair, Dudley, Warrick, Frye, Gortat.
Bench stays as is.
Brown DNP.

[Qwigglez]

Mr. Orange, I believe I had a small conversation with you on Twitter today...
As for the lineup, I'd have to agree with Los Soles. Plus his statistician stuff is dead on, and really it just makes sense. I understand Hill should start, since he is the co-pilot of the team with Nash, but he just hasn't been a good contributor to our starting unit. I do like Redd starting at the 2, and I would like to experiment with Dudley at the 3. Our bench unit would lack some firepower, but at least they would have stability with Hill running the bench mob.
If Brooks comes back in March, I definitely think our lineups should look like this...
Nash/Redd/Dudley/Morris/Gortat
Brooks/Brown/Hill/Childress/Frye
Immediately cut Telfair, that signing was just awful, he's never shown any heart...
Lopez can ride the pine, i don't see him coming back next season, and I don't want to waste trading him for a useless 2nd Round Pick or some scrub, I'd rather let him walk.

[GrantHill]

Hill off the bench is awful. We tried it before and it didn't work out. He should go to the bench early (seven minute mark?) in the game and play with our second unit. If we start Redd there would be absolutely no offensive power in our second unit. No thanks.

[Calvin Klein]

I'd try Redd in the starting unit as well. And bring Hill off the bench along with Price, Childress, Morris and Lopez (or Frye)


Starters: Nash/Redd/Dudley/Frye/Gortat
Bench: Price/Chilly/Hill/Morris/Lopez
Bench Warmers: Brown/Warrick/Telfair. I don't even know why they are in the team.

I'd try to mix Dudley and Frye with the bench too to have more long range.

[RunDogGun]

Hill off the bench is awful. We tried it before and it didn't work out. He should go to the bench early (seven minute mark?) in the game and play with our second unit. If we start Redd there would be absolutely no offensive power in our second unit. No thanks.

Well that is tough to back. He only came off the bench one season that would back your statement. And that was in 2008-2009. He came off the bench fourteen times and his stats were half of what he had when he started that year. But those bench numbers were all under Porter. I am not sure if any of our players liked playing under Porter, except Shaq.

But Hill has said (when he was coming off the bench) that he doesn't mind coming off the bench.

[Wannabe MEP]

Mr. Orange, we've been having this debate about Grant Hill for awhile on these boards. I think the case is 100% clear that Hill is a very poor fit with Nash, based on adjusted plus-minus numbers, both unit and individual. This has been clear for a couple of years now. The ball sticks in Hill's hand when he receives it open on the perimeter, which kills the momentum created by the pick-and-roll. Good defensive coaches know this, so they put their best help defenders on Hill (Luol Deng, Kobe Bryant) and let them roam. They get steals, block shots, take charges, and stall our offense regularly. Time and again, Nash will get in the lane off a pick-and-roll, and Hill's man is right there taking away Gortat's roll. Which leads to...

1) Nash passes to Hill, but Hill doesn't shoot the wide-open 3. The offense has to start over, minus a significant chunk of the shot clock.
2) Nash passes to Hill, no shot, not enough time to restart, so Hill tries to create and takes a long, contested 2. Bad shot even if you're Kobe. Hill is not Kobe. Terrible shot.
3) Nash knows it's worthless to pass to Hill, so he doesn't, even though Hill is sitting there wide open. He keeps prodding around the key looking for something even though the Suns are playing 4 on 5. We win it sometimes because Nash is brilliant, but we lose it a lot of the time.

I believe our starting unit should look like this: Nash-_____-Dudley-Frye-Gortat. The question is the SG, and we want it to be the best combination of 1) 3-point shooting, 2) quick aggressive slashing, and 3) defense.

Our options are:
-Redd
-Childress
-Price
-Brown
-Hill

Hill is terrible at #1 and mediocre at #2, so he's out. Redd is terrible at #2 and #3, so I wouldn't start him either next to Dudley--Dudley has thrived next to quickness. So I think our options are Childress, Brown, and Price.

Childress can't do #1, but he can do 2 and 3 well enough...I think it's worth playing him there. I think he'd be a complete different player if he was getting consistent minutes with Nash.

Brown can do all 3, but he's been making really poor decisions. I think that's coaching, however. It's simple: tell him he can't dribble unless he's going to the rim, and he can't shoot unless it's a feet-set, open 3 or at the rim. If he follows those rules, he'd be pretty effective next to Nash.

Price can also do all 3, but he doesn't have quite the upside that Brown does. But he's making better decisions right now, so he's the safer choice at the moment.

[Sunsdeuce]

A good sign that your team isnt very good when you go through half the season and can't figure out a rotation.

Gentry needs to realize you don't have much talent. Just stick with a rotation. Consistently changing line-ups doesn't nothing but cause more problems.

Really I don't care what the starting line is...just make one an stick with it. We don't have a j Lin on the bench to come and saves us like the knicks do.

So just fire gentry, shake hands, and let majerle take over. Maybe he can be the suns version of Kirk Gibson.

[TheMan44]

If we speaking about this season, Redd should start. Heck, swap Frye for Odom and you got yourself a lineup:

Gortat / Lopez
Odom / Morris
Hill / Dudley
Redd / Brown
Nash / Telfair

[Wannabe MEP]

Minimum 10 minutes, our 3 best units are:

Nash-Price-Dudley-Frye-Gortat +86.67
Nash-Brown-Dudley-Markieff-Gortat +49.45
Nash-Childress-Dudley-Frye-Gortat +48.58

Which reminds me of this:

I believe our starting unit should look like this: Nash-_____-Dudley-Frye-Gortat. The question is the SG, and we want it to be the best combination of 1) 3-point shooting, 2) quick aggressive slashing, and 3) defense.

Our options are:
-Redd
-Childress
-Price
-Brown
-Hill

Hill is terrible at #1 and mediocre at #2, so he's out. Redd is terrible at #2 and #3, so I wouldn't start him either next to Dudley--Dudley has thrived next to quickness. So I think our options are Childress, Brown, and Price.

Childress can't do #1, but he can do 2 and 3 well enough...I think it's worth playing him there. I think he'd be a complete different player if he was getting consistent minutes with Nash.

Brown can do all 3, but he's been making really poor decisions. I think that's coaching, however. It's simple: tell him he can't dribble unless he's going to the rim, and he can't shoot unless it's a feet-set, open 3 or at the rim. If he follows those rules, he'd be pretty effective next to Nash.

Price can also do all 3, but he doesn't have quite the upside that Brown does. But he's making better decisions right now, so he's the safer choice at the moment.

[Frank Lee]

...... Heck, swap Frye for Odom and you got yourself a lineup:

Are we 'pretending' or 'predicting' ?

Nobody is going to swap anything of value for a certified, inconsistent chucker who is inked like Frye. His quality/contribution is not that hard to match.... ie Novak, Anderson, etc... at a fraction of the cost.

We have a great second unit, posing as our first.

This yr is done folks.

[DRK]

Mr. Orange, we've been having this debate about Grant Hill for awhile on these boards. I think the case is 100% clear that Hill is a very poor fit with Nash, based on adjusted plus-minus numbers, both unit and individual. This has been clear for a couple of years now. The ball sticks in Hill's hand when he receives it open on the perimeter, which kills the momentum created by the pick-and-roll. Good defensive coaches know this, so they put their best help defenders on Hill (Luol Deng, Kobe Bryant) and let them roam. They get steals, block shots, take charges, and stall our offense regularly. Time and again, Nash will get in the lane off a pick-and-roll, and Hill's man is right there taking away Gortat's roll. Which leads to...

1) Nash passes to Hill, but Hill doesn't shoot the wide-open 3. The offense has to start over, minus a significant chunk of the shot clock.
2) Nash passes to Hill, no shot, not enough time to restart, so Hill tries to create and takes a long, contested 2. Bad shot even if you're Kobe. Hill is not Kobe. Terrible shot.
3) Nash knows it's worthless to pass to Hill, so he doesn't, even though Hill is sitting there wide open. He keeps prodding around the key looking for something even though the Suns are playing 4 on 5. We win it sometimes because Nash is brilliant, but we lose it a lot of the time.

I believe our starting unit should look like this: Nash-_____-Dudley-Frye-Gortat. The question is the SG, and we want it to be the best combination of 1) 3-point shooting, 2) quick aggressive slashing, and 3) defense.

Our options are:
-Redd
-Childress
-Price
-Brown
-Hill

Hill is terrible at #1 and mediocre at #2, so he's out. Redd is terrible at #2 and #3, so I wouldn't start him either next to Dudley--Dudley has thrived next to quickness. So I think our options are Childress, Brown, and Price.

Childress can't do #1, but he can do 2 and 3 well enough...I think it's worth playing him there. I think he'd be a complete different player if he was getting consistent minutes with Nash.

Brown can do all 3, but he's been making really poor decisions. I think that's coaching, however. It's simple: tell him he can't dribble unless he's going to the rim, and he can't shoot unless it's a feet-set, open 3 or at the rim. If he follows those rules, he'd be pretty effective next to Nash.

Price can also do all 3, but he doesn't have quite the upside that Brown does. But he's making better decisions right now, so he's the safer choice at the moment.

I agree with everything you said there, except for a few points.

There is no point in starting Childress if we are benching Hill to "spread the floor." Childress is a worse shooter than Hill.

I know Redd isn't great, but all we need is for him to get open and take shots.... Which is his speciality. I have no problem with Redd starting at all.

[Wannabe MEP]

There is no point in starting Childress if we are benching Hill to "spread the floor." Childress is a worse shooter than Hill.

I really want to put a quick slasher next to Nash and Dudley. I believe Childress is better off-ball than Hill. He would get offensive rebounds, allow us to run more, and slice into the paint for Nash-assisted dunks. I feel like the APM values suggest Childress could thrive with Nash, but it's hard to tease that out, and the results have been mixed. But so far this season only one of his top 10 units includes Nash, and that unit is +48.58.

The reality is that he has been ineffective with the bench, so if we don't give him a shot with Nash, we're giving up on him. I think there's reason to think he would be more effective with Nash.

One idea is to use these starters: Nash-Childress-Dudley-Frye-Gortat
But this lineup to close each half: Nash-Price-Dudley-Frye-Gortat

I know Redd isn't great, but all we need is for him to get open and take shots.... Which is his speciality. I have no problem with Redd starting at all.

Yeah, but I think we have to choose between Redd and Dudley with the starters. Otherwise we're just so slow. Nash-Redd-Dudley-Frye-Gortat would have to be in the running for slowest starting unit in the NBA. Which is really pretty sad after the Suns were so fast for so long.

[RunDogGun]

Funny, but that Nash, Dudley, Chilldress, Frye, Gortat line up was my starting lineup at the beginning of the season. While Hill was struggling, I have no idea why Gentry didn't try it.

[DRK]

Funny, but that Nash, Dudley, Chilldress, Frye, Gortat line up was my starting lineup at the beginning of the season. While Hill was struggling, I have no idea why Gentry didn't try it.

You dont remember how catastrophicly bad Childress was in pre-season and at the start of the season?