Andre Drummond vs. Meyers Leonard

[Rapture]

Drummond's stock seems to be going down while Leonard is getting hype as the draft day is getting closer. Who do you see becoming better player on the next level?

[Superiorblogman]

Drummond and it is not even close. Better rebounder and shot blocker already and was from day 1. Drummond's freshman year superior to Leonard's freshman year and a better rebounder and shot blocker now. To simplify it for you people. Drummond is a guy that has more of the it factor than Leonard. Leonard did not come to campus last year with the it factor he was horrible and lost. He has gotten better but he was so bad last year I feel it can be a fraud, his jump that is. Noah was never as bad as Leonard was his freshman year even though he made a big jump to.

[[RCG]]

To simplify it for you people. Drummond is a guy that has more of the it factor than Leonard.

Are you kidding me? Drummond definitely doesn't no have the "it" factor. He oozes raw potential but he has yet to come close to putting it all together. He doesn't have the pure will to dominant right now otherwise he would be doing so. He disappears for large stretches of the game and sometimes the whole game he is just a non-factor. Kobe, Durant, James have the "it" factor or the attitude to dominate, Drummond definitely does not. He would be best served by another year of college basketball and an off-season so he can grow more comfortable and confident.

[UGA Hayes]

I have to say I have a LOT of trepidation about Drummond at this point. I can't remember the last time I've seen a player go this out of his way to avoid contact. Perry Jones III looks like an ironman by comparison. What scares me is that he gives me the vibe that this won't go away with experience, that its part and parcel of his nature. I'm at the point where I don't think I would take him top 5. I really wish we were going to get another year of him in college to see how he progresses.

[ManualRam]

Drummond and it is not even close. Better rebounder and shot blocker already and was from day 1. Drummond's freshman year superior to Leonard's freshman year and a better rebounder and shot blocker now. To simplify it for you people. Drummond is a guy that has more of the it factor than Leonard. Leonard did not come to campus last year with the it factor he was horrible and lost. He has gotten better but he was so bad last year I feel it can be a fraud, his jump that is. Noah was never as bad as Leonard was his freshman year even though he made a big jump to.

gaining 20 lbs of muscle is not a fraud. being able to execute post moves and turning over either shoulder is not a product of fraud, neither is showing the ability to pass out of double teams or hit mid-range jump shots.
leonard was not ready to contribute last yr. for all the bad qualities weber has as a coach, one thing he does not do is throw freshmen into the fire if he feels they are not ready to contribute. physically and mentally he was not ready to play, but he had a great off-season. even with the lack of PT he had last yr, he tried out for team USA, made the team and was a contributor. he's put in the necessary work to become a much better player. the tools were always there.

right now leonard is the better player with the higher floor (with a very high ceiling as well), but drummond has an offseason and a yr to try to make the same strides that leonard made in his game. i do have the same concerns about drummond that were posted above. he has no idea how to play like a big man and looks to have serious confidence issues. he looks like he needs to build his game from the ground up. the difference b/t leonard and drummond's freshman yrs is that drummond was allowed to play through his mistakes and show his progression whereas leonard was kept behind the scenes since he wasnt nearly as physically ready to perform. drummond's definitely been given more opportunity, but im not liking what im seeing in terms of his progression.

overall, drummond should still be taken ahead of leonard because of his combination of size, length, mass and explosiveness, but he has the higher bust potential because he has such a poor feel for the big man game and there are big questionmarks concerning his mentality and approach. even if doesnt get to play in the postseason, i think he should come back to at least show that he can play with confidence. if he goes into the league with that same mentality, he could get kwame-d.

[Dr Positivity]

I like Leonard here.

I don't know if I buy Drummond's talent level as that enormous. Talent is not just size and athleticism. Greg Monroe and Donatas Motiejunas have more talent than Derrick Favors and Javale McGee. Jones III has top 2 talent in this draft and is just a massive pussy. I don't know if Drummond is the same. Maybe he's just as talented as McGee

Leonard is not a Monroe or Motiejunas either, but I feel like as a prospect Leonard's 20% more skill talent has more marginal utility than his 20% less athleticism has marginal cost, or something along those lines

[Eoghan]

I like Leonard way more than Drummond at this point, Drummond absolutely smacks of the kind of player drafted b/c of potential and never pans out, whereas Leonard can be swiped later in the draft probably and make a GM look like a genius. The good games I've seen Leonard in, he absolutely reminded me of a poor man's David Robinson.

[Dr Positivity]

I could still see Leonard going 2nd or 3rd overall tbh, despite how off the radar he is right now. GMs need another high potential C to go down on if Drummond gets replaced. And I think he will. Missing the tournament kills prospects. Guessing Beal goes over Lamb too in a classic freshman > soph/"A boat is a boat Lois, but the mystery box could be anything, it could even be a boat!" GMs move

[Ruzious]

I'd be stunned and amazed if Leonard becomes even close to the player that Drummond will be in the NBA. Leonard has a low motor and is just too mechanical. Drummond - as long as he's in a decent situation in the NBA - should be just fine.

[ManualRam]

if leonard is low motor, then drummond has no motor.
at least leonard fights for position and attempts to play big.

they both have great size, length and athleticism. one has translatable skill, the other doesnt.

[Ruzious]

if leonard is low motor, then drummond has no motor.
at least leonard fights for position and attempts to play big.

they both have great size, length and athleticism. one has translatable skill, the other doesnt.

Wait till they're in the NBA for a couple years. Maybe you'll finally get it then.

[ManualRam]

if leonard is low motor, then drummond has no motor.
at least leonard fights for position and attempts to play big.

they both have great size, length and athleticism. one has translatable skill, the other doesnt.

Wait till they're in the NBA for a couple years. Maybe you'll finally get it then.

nah, i get why drummond is SUPPOSED to succeed, but i also realize that he would have to overcome a lot of things in order to just become a serviceable big. in baseball and QB scouting circles they call it a player's makeup. drummond has a questionable makeup. he has poor instincts for his position, he doesnt fight for position, he avoids contact, he has a tendency to float because he lacks aggressiveness and loses confidence if things arent going well for him. like i said, he'd have to completely re-invent himself from a mental standpoint to avoid becoming a bust. his potential is still extremely high, but so is his bust potential. from a makeup standpoint, he has more in common with kwame than he does with someone like amare.

you wanna criticize leonard's movement and motor, fine. what about drummond's? quite frankly, he looks uncoordinated, spastic and he rushes his moves. he has no real go to move other than a quick flip/turnaround squirt shot. he's 6'11 270 lbs and doesnt even have a simple jump hook or any back to the basket footwork. from that position all he knows how to do is fade away (avoiding contact) or try to quick shoot it before the defense is set. as for his motor? like i said, he doesnt even fight for position...on either end of the floor. he has all these physical advantages but he plays like someone who is much smaller because he lacks aggression and is clueless about the big man game. i understand that he just wants to get his within the flow, but like PJIII, he's too physically gifted to just be a cog in the wheel, but he lacks the rudimentary skill and mentality to impose himself on the opposition.

[Roger Murdock]

I have a hard time seeing Drummond being good in the NBA. Even worse than his free throw % is the way that he tries to avoid being fouled so that he doesn't have to take them. Its the Rajon Rondo effect. Hes extremely soft. He also has pretty bad touch around the basket. In todays game he was posting up and released his hook shot right near the rim, and it actually went in the other direction. It went away from the rim. The release point was the closest the ball ever was to going in. It was pretty pathetic.

[Ruzious]

if leonard is low motor, then drummond has no motor.
at least leonard fights for position and attempts to play big.

they both have great size, length and athleticism. one has translatable skill, the other doesnt.

Wait till they're in the NBA for a couple years. Maybe you'll finally get it then.

nah, i get why drummond is SUPPOSED to succeed, but i also realize that he would have to overcome a lot of things in order to just become a serviceable big. in baseball and QB scouting circles they call it a player's makeup. drummond has a questionable makeup. he has poor instincts for his position, he doesnt fight for position, he avoids contact, he has a tendency to float because he lacks aggressiveness and loses confidence if things arent going well for him. like i said, he'd have to completely re-invent himself from a mental standpoint to avoid becoming a bust. his potential is still extremely high, but so is his bust potential. from a makeup standpoint, he has more in common with kwame than he does with someone like amare.

you wanna criticize leonard's movement and motor, fine. what about drummond's? quite frankly, he looks uncoordinated, spastic and he rushes his moves. he has no real go to move other than a quick flip/turnaround squirt shot. he's 6'11 270 lbs and doesnt even have a simple jump hook or any back to the basket footwork. from that position all he knows how to do is fade away (avoiding contact) or try to quick shoot it before the defense is set. as for his motor? like i said, he doesnt even fight for position...on either end of the floor. he has all these physical advantages but he plays like someone who is much smaller because he lacks aggression and is clueless about the big man game. i understand that he just wants to get his within the flow, but like PJIII, he's too physically gifted to just be a cog in the wheel, but he lacks the rudimentary skill and mentality to impose himself on the opposition.

Drummond is definitely not uncoordinated. He's just 18 years old - there's nothing wrong with him other than he's been poorly coached and had every little thing about him examined under an electron microscope. As long as he goes to a decent situation in the NBA, he should be fine. It just might take him a couple of years.

[Shamrock]

You always take raw potential when it comes to bigs.

[ManualRam]

You always take raw potential when it comes to bigs.

who is this post in reference of? they both have raw potential.

[Superiorblogman]

Leonard does not have raw potential. He came to campus lost. The only way one can say he has raw potential is if they look at size. Drummond came to campus displaying raw potential from day 1. This argument makes no sense to me. If this was Leonard and Drummond both rookie season I would still take Drummond. Considering this is Leonard's sophomore year and Drummond's freshman year and Drummond is younger it is not even close Drummond's production is already better and he is obviously still raw while Leonard has had a summer in which he utilized to develop his body and other things which makes him removed from being raw.

Leonard averages a PT per every 2.32 minutes played
Drummond a PT every 2.78 minute

Drummond a rebound every 3.68 minutes played
Leonard a rebound every 3.83 minutes played

Drummond a block every 11.04 minutes played
Leonard a block every 14.6 minutes played

Leonard gets to FT line once every 7.8 minutes played
Drummond gets to line once every 11.04 minutes played

As I have said I want my bigs to rebound and protect the rim more than anything. Drummond as a raw freshman does both better than Leonard as a sophomore even after Leonard went and gained weight and probably spent a summer working out with professional level trainers and such. Like I say this is a joke to even think Leonard is close and that is how the scouts will see it also. They have been wrong before and so have I, but none of the arguments you guys are making for Leonard make any sense.

[Blkbrd671]

Drummond's raw potential is leaps and bounds above leonard.

Leonard ceiling is chandler

Drumond's ceiling is dwight

not really much of a comparison.

[skones]

Leonard reminds me a lot of Bogut when he was in college to be honest. His post game isn't nearly as refined as Bogut's at the same age, and that didn't exactly translate well with Bogut which is worrisome as Leonard transitions to the NBA.

[ManualRam]

Leonard does not have raw potential. He came to campus lost. The only way one can say he has raw potential is if they look at size. Drummond came to campus displaying raw potential from day 1. This argument makes no sense to me. If this was Leonard and Drummond both rookie season I would still take Drummond. Considering this is Leonard's sophomore year and Drummond's freshman year and Drummond is younger it is not even close Drummond's production is already better and he is obviously still raw while Leonard has had a summer in which he utilized to develop his body and other things which makes him removed from being raw.

Leonard averages a PT per every 2.32 minutes played
Drummond a PT every 2.78 minute

Drummond a rebound every 3.68 minutes played
Leonard a rebound every 3.83 minutes played

Drummond a block every 11.04 minutes played
Leonard a block every 14.6 minutes played

Leonard gets to FT line once every 7.8 minutes played
Drummond gets to line once every 11.04 minutes played

As I have said I want my bigs to rebound and protect the rim more than anything. Drummond as a raw freshman does both better than Leonard as a sophomore even after Leonard went and gained weight and probably spent a summer working out with professional level trainers and such. Like I say this is a joke to even think Leonard is close and that is how the scouts will see it also. They have been wrong before and so have I, but none of the arguments you guys are making for Leonard make any sense.

you make no sense. in one thread you acknowledge leonard's physical talent, agreeing that he is one of the most naturally talented players in this draft. then you say he has no raw potential??
from what is raw potential projected from?? raw talent. it sure isnt skill or ability because drummond hasnt shown any of that.


leonard came to campus with raw potential as well. if you followed the drafts prior to last college season you'd see meyers leonard (and jereme richmond's name FTM) hovering around the lottery. the difference is that drummond was much more highly touted (#1 prospect in his class) and he went to a program that needed his production immediately. illinois is not a school for 1 and done-rs. coach weber is not one to lean heavily on freshmen, especially if they're not physically ready to contribute, which leonard was not. meyers joined a senior laden illinois team and was treated as a project, which is how it should be for players as raw as leonard and drummond were coming out of HS. but make no mistake, the physical tools and yes, RAW POTENTIAL were always there with leonard.

now i do agree that drummond has MORE raw potential, but he has much further to go to even be serviceable player. his mental makeup is highly questionable as is his overall feel for the game. in a perfect world, he would not have gone to a team that was dependent on his production (IMO, his raw-ness is a big reason why they have continuity issues). unlike in leonard's case, we've been able to see how his freshman yr has progressed and imo, it hasnt looked good. i dont see much progression at all. he's a big athlete who's only decent attribute currently is the fact that he's a big athlete.