Rondo for Nash?

[Sunsfan03]

Rondo is a top5 pg who is still young. Sure without Gortat we would get killed inside, but i doubt Rondo is going to replace Nash in terms of production. Since we are going to lose more games anyway it wouldnt matter if we didnt have Gortat. We're just going to make our pick even more valuable. Next season, we can attempt to sign Eric Gordon or OJ Mayo to solidify our backcourt and i see us contending 2-3 years down the line.
+ were gonna get aaron brooks which can choose to flip to a pick or become a scorer of the bench
+Amnesty Frye or Childress
2012 suns
Rondo/ Brooks/pick
Oj Mayo/Eric Gordon/Vet
Dudley/Childress
Morris/Pick/Warrick
Pick/Frye

In 2013, we'll get another pick and will have enough space for an fa addition. Our 2012 picks will have experience and I believe we'll be in the playoffs again >.<

[Avp115]

Yea and then what are we gonna do against big men like Bynum, Gasol, Nene, Jeffferson, Love, Griffin etc without Gortat?

Horribly, for the rest of this year anyway. That is part of the point. The trade would offer us an opportunity to rebuild with high draft picks (because we would suck so bad) and we could certainly find a young replacement for Gortat late in the draft. Players like Meyers Leonard and Tyler Zeller come to mind. They likely wouldn't step in right away and replace his production but they could be really good especially alongside the likes of Rondo. Its best to get Gortat over to a winning team anyway rather than watch him suck without nash or any other good players on his team for the next few years.

[RunDogGun]

Yea and then what are we gonna do against big men like Bynum, Gasol, Nene, Jeffferson, Love, Griffin etc without Gortat?

Horribly, for the rest of this year anyway. That is part of the point. The trade would offer us an opportunity to rebuild with high draft picks (because we would suck so bad) and we could certainly find a young replacement for Gortat late in the draft. Players like Meyers Leonard and Tyler Zeller come to mind. They likely wouldn't step in right away and replace his production but they could be really good especially alongside the likes of Rondo. Its best to get Gortat over to a winning team anyway rather than watch him suck without nash or any other good players on his team for the next few years.

"high draft picks"? Meaning more than one? We only get one that is dependent on our suckiness.

[Avp115]

Yea and then what are we gonna do against big men like Bynum, Gasol, Nene, Jeffferson, Love, Griffin etc without Gortat?

Horribly, for the rest of this year anyway. That is part of the point. The trade would offer us an opportunity to rebuild with high draft picks (because we would suck so bad) and we could certainly find a young replacement for Gortat late in the draft. Players like Meyers Leonard and Tyler Zeller come to mind. They likely wouldn't step in right away and replace his production but they could be really good especially alongside the likes of Rondo. Its best to get Gortat over to a winning team anyway rather than watch him suck without nash or any other good players on his team for the next few years.

"high draft picks"? Meaning more than one? We only get one that is dependent on our suckiness.

*typo, i meant rebuild with our draft pick and the two later ones we would receive in the potential deal

[hiphop1]

What if instead of Gortat it was some sort of top five protected first?

[Miklo]

Yea and then what are we gonna do against big men like Bynum, Gasol, Nene, Jeffferson, Love, Griffin etc without Gortat?

Horribly, for the rest of this year anyway. That is part of the point. The trade would offer us an opportunity to rebuild with high draft picks (because we would suck so bad) and we could certainly find a young replacement for Gortat late in the draft. Players like Meyers Leonard and Tyler Zeller come to mind. They likely wouldn't step in right away and replace his production but they could be really good especially alongside the likes of Rondo. Its best to get Gortat over to a winning team anyway rather than watch him suck without nash or any other good players on his team for the next few years.

I have to say, and it seems like you mostly realize this, that no player out of this draft will be a Gortat replacement for at the very least 3-5 years. And by that time they will want to get paid bigtime if they are at that level. Someone like Zeller will never come close (read: he may be as good of an NBA player, but not in the same way) due to physique and playing style. Any young big can pick up rebounds and blocks but it's EXTREMELY rare in the league to have someone with the big-man awareness and smarts that Gortat has. Add to that something that someone else mentioned, which is that there's probably no center in the league right now that's as good of an investment when it comes to price tag vs. quality. And that would certainly be the case for a rookie - the smarts and abilities wouldn't all be there, and by the time they were some of those guys would be butt-expensive.

The point being, that I'm okay with a rebuild but there's a reason we didn't have a true center for so many years - it's a relatively rare commodity in this league. I'm not saying Gortat's a perennial all star, but he's a piece that not every team hoping for a playoff run can get their hands on - whereas the same isn't really as true for any other position.

[JohnVancouver]

Agree with Miklo - just about no way to get a good deal if you move The Gortat. Price and production considered, no-one will give back what he's worth.

Would you trade him straight up for Cousins? For Kanter? For Favours?
We would, probably, but the other teams wouldn't. Like Miklo said, if you get a draft pick back and spend it on another promising young big, you will still have to wait a few years for him to bloom. And you're back here again.

Have to keep Gortat unless someone offers a crazy good deal.
What we need to do is find a young pick and roll point guard ...

[thamadkant]

A.Davis already is 80% likely to be better than current Gortat.... He is Kevin Garnett with Marcus Camby shot blocking skills....... Top 2 pick in the draft.... someone mentioned no big man in the draft can be as good as Gortat immediately or very soon after.. so I'm just saying


He was 6'10 middle of last year.... I read somewhere he is slightly taller than that now... just under 6'11, or 6'9.5 without shoes.

He might be 6'11+ by draft time this year or 6'10 without shoes..... crazy. Has guard like dribbling and passing skills, SF quickness and agility... PF height.... Center-type reach (7'4)

[Miklo]

A.Davis already is 80% likely to be better than current Gortat.... He is Kevin Garnett with Marcus Camby shot blocking skills....... Top 2 pick in the draft.... someone mentioned no big man in the draft can be as good as Gortat immediately or very soon after.. so I'm just saying


He was 6'10 middle of last year.... I read somewhere he is slightly taller than that now... just under 6'11, or 6'9.5 without shoes.

He might be 6'11+ by draft time this year or 6'10 without shoes..... crazy. Has guard like dribbling and passing skills, SF quickness and agility... PF height.... Center-type reach (7'4)

It was me that said nobody in the draft right now can replicate Gortat's contributions for at least a couple years, and even then probably not at the right price tag after their rookie contract runs out if they were a top tier pick. I'm fine with Davis but my point was, first he won't give us the awareness and smarts of the demands of the NBA level center position right up front, but second, he's gonna be looking at a major deal after his rookie contract is up if he really is the things you said. So we'd basically be building around a center, whereas with Gortat we get as much center as we need, at a price where we can build around other pieces.

[carey]

It was me that said nobody in the draft right now can replicate Gortat's contributions for at least a couple years, and even then probably not at the right price tag after their rookie contract runs out if they were a top tier pick. I'm fine with Davis but my point was, first he won't give us the awareness and smarts of the demands of the NBA level center position right up front, but second, he's gonna be looking at a major deal after his rookie contract is up if he really is the things you said. So we'd basically be building around a center, whereas with Gortat we get as much center as we need, at a price where we can build around other pieces.

We only have Gortat for 2 more seasons. You think Gortat isn't going to get substantially more than his current $7M in his new contract? Gortat just turned 28, he'll be 30 at the end of the deal. In Anthony Davis we're talking about a kid who is about to turn 19... You'd have a 19 year old phenom on a rookie deal for 4 years. I guess I don't really understand what you're trying to say here.

[Miklo]

It was me that said nobody in the draft right now can replicate Gortat's contributions for at least a couple years, and even then probably not at the right price tag after their rookie contract runs out if they were a top tier pick. I'm fine with Davis but my point was, first he won't give us the awareness and smarts of the demands of the NBA level center position right up front, but second, he's gonna be looking at a major deal after his rookie contract is up if he really is the things you said. So we'd basically be building around a center, whereas with Gortat we get as much center as we need, at a price where we can build around other pieces.

We only have Gortat for 2 more seasons. You think Gortat isn't going to get substantially more than his current $7M in his new contract? Gortat just turned 28, he'll be 30 at the end of the deal. In Anthony Davis we're talking about a kid who is about to turn 19... You'd have a 19 year old phenom on a rookie deal for 4 years. I guess I don't really understand what you're trying to say here.

No, I honestly don't think a 30 year old Gortat is going to get substantially more than 7 million. More, sure but not post-rookie-deal Anthony Davis. So what I'm trying to say is, if we're talking about a few years down the road with both players, we are picking between an extremely solid center for average money, or a star center on a huge extension. And that's fine if we want to go the second route, I'm just saying Gortat we can build around with more money to go around and we know what we're getting, whereas Davis as a long term would be our star player. I don't have a horse in either race really so I'm not arguing against someone being a good prospect, I was just defending my point that Gortat is too valuable to throw into a trade without significant value coming back. And I don't think it's worth sending him and Nash for Rondo and crappy picks, which is REALLY what I'm trying to say in this thread.

[dantian]

Look, which is easier in today's NBA, to find a PG like Rondo or to find a C like Gortat?

[MrMiyagi]

Look, which is easier in today's NBA, to find a PG like Rondo or to find a C like Gortat?

True, but this years draft is projected to be loaded with bigs. I think Keiff could play along side any of them. We get a young front line and a younger Allstar point guard. I think we may be able to move up in the draft if we get 2 more pick, even if they are late round or we could get some quality young players to replace all of the older guys on the 1 year deals.

[HootieRules]

Nash/Hill/Dudley/Lopez for Rondo/O'Neal works after March 1st.

Suns build around Rondo/Gortat/'12 lottery pick? Yes please.

[Frank Lee]

Please.... let this thread die...

No way Boston lets loose of Rondo for a 'one more chance with the big3' ... They too are banking on Free Agency next yr and all this trade talk around Rondo stems from the same thing that plagues us... they have very few desirable pieces.


and BTW.... LOWpez has played his way to 'No Value' status. He is officially our Johan Petro.

[Cash]

Please.... let this thread die...

No way Boston lets loose of Rondo for a 'one more chance with the big3' ... They too are banking on Free Agency next yr and all this trade talk around Rondo stems from the same thing that plagues us... they have very few desirable pieces.


and BTW.... LOWpez has played his way to 'No Value' status. He is officially our Johan Petro.

The only way it would make sense was if Rondo's relationship with the team was so toxic that they HAD to move him. Which is not the case.

The more I think about it, the less sense this trade makes. Nash+Gortat for Rondo makes the Suns MUCH worse this year, to the point of probably being unwatchable, but probably doesn't make much of a difference in terms of draft position. Look at the standings. No matter how bad the Suns get, it's unlikely they pass anyone but Sacto in the race for the bottom. So now we're left with Rondo, a bunch of role players and stiffs, and the #7 or #8 pick. Guh. And it comes at the cost of Nash.

The only way the deal makes any sense from a Phoenix standpoint is if they think Rondo is good enough to be The Guy they build around. I.e., good enough to be the main guy on a championship team. If that's the case, you do the trade, because while Gortat is good (and very cheap, for now), he's a supporting player on a championship team, not the main focus.

Swap out Hill (starting March 1st) for Gortat and the trade makes a lot of sense for the Suns: play out the year with Rondo & Gortat, get a top 10 pick who's hopefully capable of being pretty good in a year or two, then maybe add a solid piece in free agency, and you're potentially right back in it. But at that point it doesn't make a lot of sense for the Celtics, and that's even if they were willing to trade Rondo.

[NashtyNas]

There's no way the Suns include Gortat in any deal trading Nash, not unless we're getting back Deron or Dwight, which isn't happening.

I think that Rondo is comparable to Deron. Deron is more offensive oriented and Rondo is more defensive oriented. I personally would rather have Rondo with guys like Westbrook and CP3 in the West.

I don't know if Rondo is at all comparable to the two. Dwight is the best at his position, and Deron in contention for 1/2/3 with Rose/Paul/Nash.

Rondo, he has no shoot, he can't hit a free throw if his life depended on it, and he's passive as hell until teams leave him open for like 2 whole quarters or he sucks for 4 games before he awakens and becomes aggressive again.

Plus he hasn't proven he can be an excellent facilitator without hall of famers as his out lets, I mean anyone can get assists passing to Allen/Pierce/KG.

He's great, don't get me wrong, a top 5-10 PG because of his excellent defense and facilitating, but his shooting and lack of fire leaves a lot to be desired at times.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have Rondo be Nash's successor, even though it would be horrible going from every free throw being hit to missed, but I do think Gortat has a ton of value and there's no need to give him up at all. As a center averaging 16/10 with 2 blocks and excellent defense, he's a HUGE bargain at $6mil no team can claim they have. What other starting center is signed that cheap long term who's NOT on his rookie scale? I don't think there is one, outside of Pek, who just blossomed.

Plus no matter what us fans think, Robin Lopez has some value around the league. A big who before his injury was playing solid defense on a winning team and making a great impact can't just go to nothing. He needs a change of scenery, consistent playing time, and to be given his niche again, which is defend, rebound and get put back buckets. He can do it, he has done it.

Nash/Lopez and a protected first should get Rondo. Gortat would be something you include for a player that's been untouchable and wants out, not Rondo who's been shopped by Ainge numerous times because he himself understands his players faults.

Once the Big 3 are all gone, Rondo will be heavily exposed, people will bring the double teams at him, and his efficiency and assits will dip like crazy. Unless they sign Dwight or something, that's a different scenario all together.