Josh Smith Trade Value

[Rip2137]

ATLboy "Bogut is obviously better than Smoove"... want to quantify that statement?

Bogut when healthy is a dominant force at Center, he averages better rebounding, Scoring, and blocking numbers, the problem is he's never healthy. He's a C so that's just icing on the cake. That's just my opinion tho.

Bogut was the number one scoring option once Redd went down when he put up decent numbers.

Josh has equaled those numbers on numerous occasions with Bogut only besting him in rebounding. There is NOTHING dominant about Bogut whose career best scoring was 15.9 points a game while being a main focus of the offense. Also he averaged at best 2 more rebounds than Josh without having a fellow front court mate averaging 10 a game like Josh has had his entire career.

Also the last few Centers getting major minutes on final teams:

joel Anthony, Brendan Heywood, Tyson Chandler, Kedrick Perkins, Pau Gasol, Marcin Gortat, Dwight Howard.

There are 3 guys in that list that mattered in their team getting to the finals.

The Center position is not what it used to be. You don't give up a very good PF for a mediocre Center. Especially when after you do it, you move Horford to PF where he will be outmatched. Horford is good because he plays Center, not in spite of it.

[Superiorblogman]

Horford is a better PF than Josh will ever be. Josh is undersized and underskilled for the position. Al has the mid-range jumper that most PF's have and he rebounds better than Josh and he is prototypical PF size.

[Rip2137]

Horford is a better PF than Josh will ever be. Josh is undersized and underskilled for the position. Al has the mid-range jumper that most PF's have and he rebounds better than Josh and he is prototypical PF size.

No Horford isn't. He is too slow laterally to beat PF's off the dribble, and has no post game with his back to the basket against them.

He CAN beat Centers off the dribble and his Midrange shots are more open because Centers are matched up against him instead of PF, who tend to be further away from the basket.

I also disagree with Horford being a better rebounder. They are about the same, with smith being involved in switches defensively on the perimeter (which you never really see Al doing) Smith is more likely to be out side the paint when a shot goes up than Al.

Al gives you more consistant effort and more consistant results(meaning, his jumper is more consistant and when he drives, his shots are prayers like it seems all of Josh's are). But Josh defends 4's better than Al, creates a better mismatch when he faces up 4's, is a better passer in the half court, Is a good rebounder, and offensively, while not as consistant, has the ability to effect the game more than Al at the 4 spot.

[Superiorblogman]

Horford is a better PF than Josh will ever be. Josh is undersized and underskilled for the position. Al has the mid-range jumper that most PF's have and he rebounds better than Josh and he is prototypical PF size.

No Horford isn't. He is too slow laterally to beat PF's off the dribble, and has no post game with his back to the basket against them.

He CAN beat Centers off the dribble and his Midrange shots are more open because Centers are matched up against him instead of PF, who tend to be further away from the basket.

I also disagree with Horford being a better rebounder. They are about the same, with smith being involved in switches defensively on the perimeter (which you never really see Al doing) Smith is more likely to be out side the paint when a shot goes up than Al.

Al gives you more consistant effort and more consistant results(meaning, his jumper is more consistant and when he drives, his shots are prayers like it seems all of Josh's are). But Josh defends 4's better than Al, creates a better mismatch when he faces up 4's, is a better passer in the half court, Is a good rebounder, and offensively, while not as consistant, has the ability to effect the game more than Al at the 4 spot.

I don't care rather you agree or not only a fool argues with facts. Horford is a better rebounder and has a better jumper and has more size, all of that is fact. Now this part is not factual just my opinion. Smith does not guard anyone well on the perimeter because his instincts are to protect the rim. He gives too much space for jumpers and he gets beat off the dribble the only thing he does well sometimes is recover to contest. You guys are lost with this lateral quickness argument. Al has not even played enough PF to know if he can guard guys or not when lateral quickness is needed, but we do know that Josh sorry arse had to be moved from SF to PF because he was too lazy and sorry to defend the position and too unskilled and unwilling to work on his handles. Josh is a sorry arse crybaby that Atlanta has spoiled. Had no business moving him to PF should have fired him for not being able to do his job, but we go small just so we can keep the little hometown punk.

[Ruhiel]

Horford is a better PF than Josh will ever be. Josh is undersized and underskilled for the position. Al has the mid-range jumper that most PF's have and he rebounds better than Josh and he is prototypical PF size.

No Horford isn't. He is too slow laterally to beat PF's off the dribble, and has no post game with his back to the basket against them.

He CAN beat Centers off the dribble and his Midrange shots are more open because Centers are matched up against him instead of PF, who tend to be further away from the basket.

I also disagree with Horford being a better rebounder. They are about the same, with smith being involved in switches defensively on the perimeter (which you never really see Al doing) Smith is more likely to be out side the paint when a shot goes up than Al.

Al gives you more consistant effort and more consistant results(meaning, his jumper is more consistant and when he drives, his shots are prayers like it seems all of Josh's are). But Josh defends 4's better than Al, creates a better mismatch when he faces up 4's, is a better passer in the half court, Is a good rebounder, and offensively, while not as consistant, has the ability to effect the game more than Al at the 4 spot.

I don't care rather you agree or not only a fool argues with facts. Horford is a better rebounder and has a better jumper and has more size, all of that is fact. Now this part is not factual just my opinion. Smith does not guard anyone well on the perimeter because his instincts are to protect the rim. He gives too much space for jumpers and he gets beat off the dribble the only thing he does well sometimes is recover to contest. You guys are lost with this lateral quickness argument. Al has not even played enough PF to know if he can guard guys or not when lateral quickness is needed, but we do know that Josh sorry arse had to be moved from SF to PF because he was too lazy and sorry to defend the position and too unskilled and unwilling to work on his handles. Josh is a sorry arse crybaby that Atlanta has spoiled. Had no business moving him to PF should have fired him for not being able to do his job, but we go small just so we can keep the little hometown punk.

chillout rookie

Smith's instincts are to do what it takes to win. Josh Smith was just defending Kobe Bryant and Hedo Turkoglu. You're making stuff up.

Smith vs wings is a clearcut advantage on defensive rebounding, offensive rebounding and in the post.


Everyone except you knows that Josh had to be moved from SF to PF because Billy Knight drafted all 6'8 players and Smith was the best post defender and paint protector among them. Josh Childress, Marvin Williams, Shelden Williams. You're a clueless bigot , its well noted that Smith works on his handles and his jumpshot every year. But you're too bigoted to really see any improvement. Of all times, the year he drops 30 lbs and just 1 day after the guy drops 30, 17, 7, 4, and 3. Absolutely clueless.

No need to tear down Smith with lies to build up an argument for Horford at the 4.

[Rip2137]

Horford is a better PF than Josh will ever be. Josh is undersized and underskilled for the position. Al has the mid-range jumper that most PF's have and he rebounds better than Josh and he is prototypical PF size.

No Horford isn't. He is too slow laterally to beat PF's off the dribble, and has no post game with his back to the basket against them.

He CAN beat Centers off the dribble and his Midrange shots are more open because Centers are matched up against him instead of PF, who tend to be further away from the basket.

I also disagree with Horford being a better rebounder. They are about the same, with smith being involved in switches defensively on the perimeter (which you never really see Al doing) Smith is more likely to be out side the paint when a shot goes up than Al.

Al gives you more consistant effort and more consistant results(meaning, his jumper is more consistant and when he drives, his shots are prayers like it seems all of Josh's are). But Josh defends 4's better than Al, creates a better mismatch when he faces up 4's, is a better passer in the half court, Is a good rebounder, and offensively, while not as consistant, has the ability to effect the game more than Al at the 4 spot.

I don't care rather you agree or not only a fool argues with facts. Horford is a better rebounder and has a better jumper and has more size, all of that is fact. Now this part is not factual just my opinion. Smith does not guard anyone well on the perimeter because his instincts are to protect the rim. He gives too much space for jumpers and he gets beat off the dribble the only thing he does well sometimes is recover to contest. You guys are lost with this lateral quickness argument. Al has not even played enough PF to know if he can guard guys or not when lateral quickness is needed, but we do know that Josh sorry arse had to be moved from SF to PF because he was too lazy and sorry to defend the position and too unskilled and unwilling to work on his handles. Josh is a sorry arse crybaby that Atlanta has spoiled. Had no business moving him to PF should have fired him for not being able to do his job, but we go small just so we can keep the little hometown punk.

Wow...there is a whole lot of nonsense in that.

First, how don't we know that Al lacks quickness on the first step to the basekt? We have watched him play and his face up game is slow. Do we need to try him at the 3 to find out he isn't a SF? He has consistantly had problems defneding the more athletic Centers and the ones that can stretch the court...guess what he woudl get at the 4? MORE player that are more athletic than him and stretch the 4.

Josh got moved to the 4 because he is a 4. He didn't work on his bhandles? Did you SEE him dribble a basketabll when he got here? He could do two things as a rookie. Jump and run...thats it. There were some passing instincts there, but jump...run. Since then he has become a jack of all trades, but mastered none. His jumper went from non existant to inconsistant. His handles went from imaginary to shakey. He has CLEARLY gotten better every single season, and I don't see how that is arguable.

See the thing is, I think Horford is a better basketball player, but he isn't a better power forward. He is a Center. The reason he is a All star at Center is because he is a good Center. He is just a undersized one. Charles Barkley was a undersized PF but that doesn't mean you moved him to the 3 because he was 6'4".

[Ruhiel]

Josh SMith was moved to PF to make room for Marvina.

He's James Worthy with a jumpshot. - Marjerus

draftexpress- *Marvin Williams- Ok, loved his potential in college because of his blend of size, strength, and skill set. But, Williams was completely lost in summer league and I expected more from a player with a solid body that’s built for an NBA small forward. Williams, and the Hawks, are going to have to determine what position he’s going to play and let him settle into it. It’ll be intriguing to watch his development along side of Josh Smith, since they essentially play the same position. Williams hasn’t really shown a true post game to warrant power forward speculation and his height isn’t significant enough to represent a true defensive presence in the paint while on his man. Marvin seems to have a good head on his shoulders and the team is loaded with young players who should help ease the NBA transition.

Yeah he got in the way.

[Superiorblogman]

I know you boy's get butt hurt when I go in on your savior Joshy Josh but the guy is horrible. This team was built around Josh Smith and he is a failure.

We needed a PG but we choose Marvin because Josh could not man the SF position. We needed a Center but we choose Marvin because Josh could not man the SF position. Al is a PF but he has to play out of position because Smith can't man the original position he was drafted to play. The Wiz are not going to draft a PG because they clearly have one in Wall even though he has size to play SG. Marvin was selected because Josh is a tweener that causes problems for his own team by being a tweener. Shareef and Josh are both the same tweeners that killed this organization. Pau for Shareef and Paul or Deron for Josh killed this organization.

Deron or Paul
anybody
anybody
Al
Pau

Go win it all.

[Ruhiel]

??? "We needed a PG but we choose Marvin because Josh could not man the SF position"???

What an idiot. Marvin Williams was drafted because people thought he was the next superstar shooting SF.

[Years80HAWKS]

Right now Josh is a great, great player. Not a superstar, but a playern that does a lot of different things on the court. He is playing the 4, but dribbling the ball upcourt, blocking the opposite center's shots, fighting for rebounds and hitting some long shots. In Spanish we have a saying that is: "what a good cavalier, should he had a good lord". So, if we have a real superstar in JJ, or a really good center, alongside him, he would be a real nice addition to the game of the team.

I believe that what happens with Josh is similar to that that happens to Iguodala in Philly. He defends, runs, shoots, rebounds, steals, but then it would be really unfair to get a good trade value for him. Philly, and us for that matter, would always got robbed in a trade.

I always thought that pairing him with Marvin would be great. Marvin could defend some PFs, while Josh can defend some SFs perfectly. In LA Marvin wa staking Kobe, JJ was taking Artest and sometimes the combination was even more bozarre. Then they can choose to get both inside, leaving Zaza (Horford) outside, or one can go inside and post uo, while the other one is outside to pass the ball os shoot.

I do not think Horford would get this level of production if he was playing the 4 with Smith injured and Zaza besides him. Not in a million years.

Then I believe is unfair to give an opinion on somebody when he is plays out of position. If Horford was to play the 4, he would get into training camp with 20 lbs less, practicing his running, dribbling,
lateral movements... instead, he has to be strong to fight opposite centers. Smith has now a SF's body. This year he thought he would be getting some playing time at the three. He also thought, as many of us did, that we would be getting a real 5- Nothing of that happened.

I do not know how much longer this organization has to wait to trade one of the two and get a center (or a role player) and a pick at least in the process. May be Gasol for Horford and Hinrich would be ok for the Lakers. They want to move Pau for sure. May be Milicic and Williams trading with the Wolves. Milicic and Beasley? Milicic and Randolph? Milicic for us would be great. He is huge. He changes many shots. He uses his body. Smith would be free to play much better. Milicic in the East would be a nice addition, among that second/third step of centers.

[djjob23]

Right now Josh is a great, great player. Not a superstar, but a playern that does a lot of different things on the court. He is playing the 4, but dribbling the ball upcourt, blocking the opposite center's shots, fighting for rebounds and hitting some long shots. In Spanish we have a saying that is: "what a good cavalier, should he had a good lord". So, if we have a real superstar in JJ, or a really good center, alongside him, he would be a real nice addition to the game of the team.

I believe that what happens with Josh is similar to that that happens to Iguodala in Philly. He defends, runs, shoots, rebounds, steals, but then it would be really unfair to get a good trade value for him. Philly, and us for that matter, would always got robbed in a trade.

I always thought that pairing him with Marvin would be great. Marvin could defend some PFs, while Josh can defend some SFs perfectly. In LA Marvin wa staking Kobe, JJ was taking Artest and sometimes the combination was even more bozarre. Then they can choose to get both inside, leaving Zaza (Horford) outside, or one can go inside and post uo, while the other one is outside to pass the ball os shoot.

I do not think Horford would get this level of production if he was playing the 4 with Smith injured and Zaza besides him. Not in a million years.

Then I believe is unfair to give an opinion on somebody when he is plays out of position. If Horford was to play the 4, he would get into training camp with 20 lbs less, practicing his running, dribbling,
lateral movements... instead, he has to be strong to fight opposite centers. Smith has now a SF's body. This year he thought he would be getting some playing time at the three. He also thought, as many of us did, that we would be getting a real 5- Nothing of that happened.

I do not know how much longer this organization has to wait to trade one of the two and get a center (or a role player) and a pick at least in the process. May be Gasol for Horford and Hinrich would be ok for the Lakers. They want to move Pau for sure. May be Milicic and Williams trading with the Wolves. Milicic and Beasley? Milicic and Randolph? Milicic for us would be great. He is huge. He changes many shots. He uses his body. Smith would be free to play much better. Milicic in the East would be a nice addition, among that second/third step of centers.

Agreed. But JJ is a cancer and he is not a "real superstar". Get a real superstar and true center, then Josh is at his best.

[Ruhiel]

[quote="Rip2137"]A: Stop with the videos. they are ridiculously always trying to prove your bias. Its like me posting video of Nash missing 300 freethrows to say he isn't a great free throw shooter. I can take a bad game from any player in the league to try and prove a point. point is, Marvin's PER is slightly lower than Joes. He ONLY plays 24 minutes a game and take 7 shots. Blaming the offensive woes of this team on one guy who is leading the team in 3 point percentage is silly.

C: On the play where you say "marvin wasn't athletic enough" joe BLEW his assignment. You want some super human play from marvin Williams to defend that play.
You're ignoring your own argument. Josh Smith has more ability to erase those kind of mistakes and the moment he saw Deng free would have made a step toward Deng to help and make that "superhuman" play. Josh Smith is at PF to erase mistakes.
But he was busy defending Derrick Rose. And you said Marvin was a better 1 on 1 perimeter defender than Williams. Its a joke. He's bigger slower and less talk on defense.
Then I asked for a lightning quick guy that Smith cant keep up with and you named Luol Deng, Danny Granger. Of all people those 2 are average athletically at best. Iguodala I'll get that videos when/if I can but he is much smaller and quicker than Marvin. Smith is closer to that.
Since they can go both ways for bias Show me a video of Marvin Williams being what you claim he is. He plays SF because hes less of a liability there than at PF.

You dont know anything about basketball if you say Marvin williams is chasing people around screens better than Josh Smith, to a point of "nightly mismatch". Its a complete joke. Marvin is a SF because hes less of a liability there on most nights. We just played the Magic. Tell us why Marvin was on Ryan Anderson (softerSF/PF type) and Josh was on Hedo Turkoglu? It makes no sense.
Your whole basis of your argument on that front is Marvin Williams perimeter defense > Josh Smith. Its terrible on so many levels.
Then you say this "B: Bosh's post game is his weak point.” And “you want him posting up”. What? The further from the basket the more %’s drop. That’s basic basketball.
"It is common sense, we can talk about it, but I think it's evident," Bosh said. "I just have to get it where I'm effective. I'm a big man. I can shoot the ball but I'm a big man. So I have to get it where big guys get it. Then I feel I can start helping out this team more." - Chris Bosh
Chris Bosh is 7 feet tall. Josh Smith is 6’8. Do you have actual stats that prove you want Chris Bosh closer to the basket rather than shooting jumpers? Or are you spouting nonsense??
-----------
"I never really like to bump against people that are a lot, lot bigger than me," Bosh said in October. "I'm not the biggest guy in the world. Coach is going to put him in that position sometimes. He's not going to hang me out to dry. He's going to put me in there when we have an advantage." – Chris Bosh

Bosh only scored on Leuer because Leuer played him for the jump shot when he couldve played him for drive and a contest. Yeah he could get better, learn some things from Josh, as he is a rookie and that was his 1st time playing Bosh he did better than your paranoia/stereotypes suggests considering.

edit: I was watching the PHI game in an attempt to upload marvins "defense". But the Duck was primarily guarding Meeks with the quicker Joe Johnson on Iggy. And Iguodala ran off one screen in the entire 1st quarter. A complete waste of time on fraudulent claims. Im not doing it.

[fuzzy1]

I think Horford could play a mean 4 when paired with a post-playing center, but whatever.

Back to the original question, Smith's trade value just doesn't seem to be good for us, if that makes sense. We could send him to a team that could use a 4 like Phoenix, for example, but they won't give us a pick and really like Gortat. If you're a contending team, you don't need him/want him because of his inconsistencies and "tweenerness," and if you're rebuilding you don't have much we would want that you're willing to give up.

The above appears to be the case, unless we want to blow it up or we bring in another team or two for a 3 or 4 way deal.