Atlanta Hawks Official Trade Ideas Thread (Part 1)

[LOJ]

While being as polite as I can be I see what you're saying Superiorblogman. Thanks for the responses guys

[Ruhiel]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=6pkmlcz

+6 games and save $1 million. Hawks get to play Josh Smith at sf + shooters and a $6 mil backup pf/c in Gooden.

[Superiorblogman]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6pkmlcz

+6 games and save $1 million. Hawks get to play Josh Smith at sf + shooters and a $6 mil backup pf/c in Gooden.

Does your mind work? So, we add Gooden's contract to next year and we are at $67.5 million. I don't even see what Jon is making next year but let's assume it is the minimum of 800,000. That would put us at around $68.3 mill with 8 players under contract. We would need to sign 5 more players with a little less than $3 million to spend. How are we going to get 5 players for less than the minimum. We can sign our 2 2nd rd picks to say 400,000 a piece and 3 more D Leaguer's. We would probably not even be able to sign our 1st rd pick without going into luxury. Point is Gooden is the problem with this.

I doubt if the Lakers want Kirk like I once thought considering Blake is just as good or better and Goudelock is good for scoring. Trading Kirk is probably gonna be impossible now, but we need to trade him for 2 to 3 cheap pieces. If we can get a 1st and a young piece that would be great. We would end up with 8 players under contract at $63 million and about $8 mill to spend with 5 roster spots. That is a lot better than having Gooden and Jon and no cap space. Think sometimes

[Ruhiel]

???
Jon is a 2nd rounder so he is making $473K per year. Thats a Very cheap and a good shrewd move.

Jeff Teague $2,433,076
Joe Johnson $19,752,645
Josh Smith $13,200,000
Jon Leuer $473,604
Al Horford $12,000,000

Janero Pargo $854,389
Tracy McGrady $854,389
Marvin Williams $8,287,500
Drew Gooden $6,680,000
Zaza Pachulia $5,248,750

$69,784,353

Ivan Johnson Price Tag. Idk but I dont understand. We filled out the roster with minimum deals and we dont even play Stackhouse or Pargo now that Hinrich is on the shopping block.

The 2nd rounders should be packaged for assets

btw
“They’ve committed to pay the luxury tax, which not many teams in our league do these days,” Stern said. “They are committed to hire the personnel to demonstrate to the fans that this is a franchise worth supporting. I think they are committed to Atlanta, and I’m committed to them.”

Gearon said that the JJ contract will be judged by as far as we go in the playoff matchups.

[Superiorblogman]

???
Jon is a 2nd rounder so he is making $473K per year. Thats a Very cheap and a good shrewd move.

Jeff Teague $2,433,076
Joe Johnson $19,752,645
Josh Smith $13,200,000
Jon Leuer $473,604
Al Horford $12,000,000

Janero Pargo $854,389
Tracy McGrady $854,389
Marvin Williams $8,287,500
Drew Gooden $6,680,000
Zaza Pachulia $5,248,750

$69,784,353

Ivan Johnson Price Tag. Idk but I dont understand. We filled out the roster with minimum deals and we dont even play Stackhouse or Pargo now that Hinrich is on the shopping block.

The 2nd rounders should be packaged for assets

btw
“They’ve committed to pay the luxury tax, which not many teams in our league do these days,” Stern said. “They are committed to hire the personnel to demonstrate to the fans that this is a franchise worth supporting. I think they are committed to Atlanta, and I’m committed to them.”

Gearon said that the JJ contract will be judged by as far as we go in the playoff matchups.

They have not committed to playing the luxury actually. It depends on when you have to pay it. I think it is after the trade deadline and possibly even after season because I can remember plenty of talk about teams making moves to rid themselves of just enough contract to stay under around trade deadline. Don't believe the hype they are not going to pay that tax. Also, the 2nd rd picks are assets they are cheap because you can pay them whatever you want to and they have upside. There are no assets out there other than cash that you will get for 2nd rd picks that are gonna help this team and we need to stop selling our future to cover up bad moves we have currently made. 2 wrongs don't make a right.

[Ruhiel]

I pretty much knows 2nd round picks for cash. I'm looking at the draft board and it has us taking 6'9 230 lb Forwards that play Center.

Jordan Crawford, Keith Benson, Pape Sy, Sergiy Gladyr. This team has been bad at drafting 2nd rounders.

The 1st rounder is the good pick and what we gave up last year. So yeah dont see 2nd rounders at C or PF that can erase Josh's weaknesses (shooting). The low 1st rounder I'd give up for Leuer.

I see Festus Ezeli is who we are supposed to take? Looks robotic, like an inexperienced Okafor.

[MaceCase]

Leuer is unguaranteed for 762,000 next season (FYI all second year pros are automatically worth ~800k) and there is an issue where you are calculating the amount of the vet min that the team actually pays even though the full amount of 1.3mil is still calculated for the cap hit.

[Superiorblogman]

I pretty much knows 2nd round picks for cash. I'm looking at the draft board and it has us taking 6'9 230 lb Forwards that play Center.

Jordan Crawford, Keith Benson, Pape Sy, Sergiy Gladyr. This team has been bad at drafting 2nd rounders.

The 1st rounder is the good pick and what we gave up last year. So yeah dont see 2nd rounders at C or PF that can erase Josh's weaknesses (shooting). The low 1st rounder I'd give up for Leuer.

I see Festus Ezeli is who we are supposed to take? Looks robotic, like an inexperienced Okafor.

Festus would be fine because Zaza is expiring after next season and bigs are just way overpaid, you want fine one with the tools that he has at his age cheaper. I really don't like his rebounding rates or any of his activity rates but one thing he does that we need is he rolls to the basket instead of popping and he does try to post up, guys just turn him over when they dig. I disagree that the 2nd rd will net nothing because we need so much.

[Superiorblogman]

I pretty much knows 2nd round picks for cash. I'm looking at the draft board and it has us taking 6'9 230 lb Forwards that play Center.

Jordan Crawford, Keith Benson, Pape Sy, Sergiy Gladyr. This team has been bad at drafting 2nd rounders.

The 1st rounder is the good pick and what we gave up last year. So yeah dont see 2nd rounders at C or PF that can erase Josh's weaknesses (shooting). The low 1st rounder I'd give up for Leuer.

I see Festus Ezeli is who we are supposed to take? Looks robotic, like an inexperienced Okafor.

I try to respect you because you are fun to go back and forth with due to the fact that I never feel threatened by your knowledge. Jordan was a 1st rd pick. That Suns 2nd rd pick could be in the 30's and like gold.

[Ruhiel]

[quote="Rip2137"]

sigh...listen, this isn't video game land where if I put a PF at SF, the opposing team will guard him with a SF and we get a automatic mismatch.

A: If Luer is starting he is either A: On the block posting up with Josh on the perimeter(aka, not good) or he is on the perimeter and teams will just guar him with their SF and still have their PF on smith who is on the block.(AKA the same thing we have now).

Says who. Thats a pretty stupid strategy. What happens if Smith shoots from outside. Leuer's a monster offensive boarder. Hes a monster post up scorer. He'd score 20 a night with say Jodie Meeks, or Jared Dudley on him.

Only in video game land do you try to hide Jodie Meeks or a sf on Leuer.

B. Jon Leuer's size can defend PFs such as Gasol man to man, until Smith recovers
C: Josh Smith is a better defender of SF's over Marvin Williams. Stupid stupid to suggest otherwise.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLata6prCro[/youtube]


D: Josh is trying to guard guys quicker than him on the perimeter? lol such as?
Who are these mythical SFs quicker than Josh Smith? And that can guard him on the other end. Lebron? thats about it.

- we get Smith on Lebron and Luer on Bosh(NO!!!) and both would get destroyed.

You might have a point with Luer vs Boozer because he was on Noah, doing a fine job btw.
But Leuers size counters Bosh better than Josh. So I do think you're the one on too many video games.

[Rip2137]

Again, if Luer is in the post, they aren't going to guard him with a SF because you said so.

Also, what are you basing this MONSTER on the block stuff on? He hasn't shown it on a NBA level. He has shown the ability to hit wide open midrange jumpshots.

The SF doesn't HAVE to guard Josh Smith on the ohter end. Its called a cross matchup. AGAIN, this isn't a video game. no team is going to put a SF on Josh on the block because he is listed as the SF.

Are you serious with that video? He has blocked a point guards shot before too. so clearly he can defend the point guard position full time no problem. Hell, Nate Robinson blocked Yao Mings shot before so he can defend centers now.

On the offensive end, Josh Smith can not run over screens or defend of the dribble like Marvin Williams can on opposing SF. Playing well on a switch every once and a while is not the same as chasing Deng, Granger or Igudola around screens, or trying to stop a guy on the perimeter. Josh at best is a roaming defneder and you know what you can't have with a guy guarding the opposing SF? a guy that is roaming. You can't honestly believe that Josh Smith is a better perimeter defender than Marvin Williams. Joe Johnson when he is trying is our best perimeter denfender. Marvin Williams is not far behind, while giving a more consistant defensive effort I would give him the nod as the best.

On the block, Luer hasn't shown the ability to stop ANYONE. MARVIN WILLIAMS has 20lbs on the dude for gods sake. There is a reason Skiles took him out the starting lineup. He can't defend the 3 OR the 4. he gives up more than he contributes.

Luer doesn't have the quickness to stop Bosh's face up drives, which means he would need to be a step further back than Smith guarding him. Which plays into Bosh's shooting ability. The fact that you would point out that Luer was doing a good job on Noah, who is not a good offensive player shows how silly this all is.

Im not saying Marvin Williams is not upgradeable(I honestly think Marv for Mike Miller would be a good switch, although that would make the heat better) or Marvin for Trevor Ariza would be a good move, but this Jon Luer obsession you have is silly mostly because it makes this team worse in every way shape and form.

[Ruhiel]

Again, if Luer is in the post, they aren't going to guard him with a SF because you said so.
The SF doesn't HAVE to guard Josh Smith on the ohter end. Its called a cross matchup. AGAIN, this isn't a video game. no team is going to put a SF on Josh on the block because he is listed as the SF.

Jodie Meeks, Iguodala, Brand
Joe Johnson, Josh Smith, 7 foot replacement for Marv/Vlad

in that case Meeks (and Jrue holiday) has gotten away with guarding Marv/Vlad. Yeah I'm getting rid of those cross matchups. Thats pretty much the point.

Am I serious with that video? That was Josh Smith at 245+ last year still capable of blocking Jason Richardson's jumper on the move, then we get the ball and Smith is off and "running" in transition he runs to the rim and crossmatches with a backcourt player. Jameer Nelson & draws an automatic double team for a Hinrich 3.

If you've been paying attention (which you haven't seeing how you referenced the last video) Josh Smith lost 30 lbs. to directly run over screens & defend off the dribble unlike Marvin Williams and Vlad who is now both bigger and slower and consistently gets outplayed and beaten by opposing SFs.
The only reason Vlad and Marvin defend SFs are because they are worse on PFs.

Last year during the postseason, Drew began also using him at the three, and Smith found himself trying to keep up with some awfully fleet small forwards.

“There were definitely some obstacles,” he said about guarding threes.

Fighting off pick-and-rolls and staying with his man was among the challenges he faced.

Smith realized if he were to defend smaller, quicker players, he had to get a little more spring in his step. And the best way was to enter the season a little trimmer.

“I feel good and healthy,” Smith said.

While his statistics are also healthy, he brings some awfully important intangibles. Smith is an effective defender, against both small and power forwards these days.

“He has really done a phenomenal job in guarding bigs and guarding smalls,” Drew said. “We put him in situations where we put him on smaller guys and he is locked in and has gotten the job done.”

And then there is the reverse side. Whether it’s a power or small forward, the opposition has a difficult time guarding Smith.

“He is very explosive around the basket,” Sixers coach Doug Collins said. “…He is definitely a very difficult matchup for us.”

smh at talking about Marvin Williams "chasing" a guy who's a slower catch and shoot player in Granger And Luol Deng is just as silly. then Iguodala is the athletic one that Smith is more favorable against and he gets whatever he wants on slower heavier terrible Marvin Williams!

Now it seems I need to upload Marvin Williams defense on those specific guys when he plays them. The only reason they play there is because even though Smith can come and help down on defense...Vlad/Marvin are too weak too hold position/contest shots against most PFs until Smith can come down and help defend.

You havent got a clue if you think Duck is a better wing defender than Josh Smith. The switches always come because Marvin is too slow to get over or under a screen.

Question: why was Josh Smith defending on Hedo Turkoglu?
Answer: because Josh is better wing defender and we could finally hide Marvin on a slower PF who was as soft as Marvin in Ryan Anderson. When Big Baby came in Smith had to guard him too.

Here's one video with 2 first plays. The first is of Marvin "chasing" Deng then Rose gets in the paint and thats why we have Smith there. To contest shots that Marvin cant do.
Then to accentuate that, and the point that Smith is a much more respectable perimeter defender than Marvin... the 2nd clip in the video has Coach sticking Smith on Derrick Rose for the last play of the game no matter what. Not Marvin vs Rose to decide the game. Josh Smith vs Derrick Rose. But then Deng gets the backdoor slip on Joe Johnson and guess who is not athletic enough to come over to help? Marvin Williams who's sticking on Boozer for the last play.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIqo_k7Y ... re=related


Luer vs Bosh or Josh vs Bosh. You are paranoid and playing into stereotypes.

Bosh destroys Josh Smith and Marvin because Josh is too small and Marvin is a garbage help defender.

Here Marvin doesnt let Josh through because hes so slow he doesnt want to separate from Lebron. So Josh has to go over both of them and is too small to block Bosh from behind. Marvin of course causing the play by not letting his man thru isnt athletic enough to recover either. AT ALL.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7qQAawLk78[/youtube]

Unfortunately for you Leuer did play Bosh and Bosh beat him once off the dribble. But then Leuer played up on him and faced with another 7 footer who's quick for his size Bosh started taking 3 pointers and forced to the perimeter.

He didnt however post up and shoot over Leuer like he did our "smalls" Josh and Horford.

The fact is Boozer is built shorter and stronger and has made a living over driving into taller skinnier players. The fact is Noah is good at crashing boards and Leuer did good keeping him out the paint and offensive rebounding and finishing against them was impressive.

Last point:
Talking about Leuer playing inside would force Smith to the perimeter is VERY AWFUL point. I know I'm going to tape his defense but I had the tragic experience of recording all the times Marvin Williams touched the ball in a Toronto game.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wzi_IlEQBo&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOdzjgt_tuc[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYOtXvdTeZM[/youtube]

Marvin missing wide open jumpers is what forces Marvin to dive inside and Smith pops outside. The difference is Leuer doesnt miss point blank layups dunks and jump shots!

Your points are silly and Smith has too many responsibilities in this small ball format. He has said he needed a deadeye shooter and according to MC he, Joe, and Al have reportedly asked for size.

The only obsession is upgrading the Hawks size with Smith to the wing and your points are nonsensical. Marvin the fat duck with a pidgeon's IQ is better at chasing SFs than Smith? really?

[Rip2137]

A: Stop with the videos. they are ridiculously always trying to prove your bias. Its like me posting video of Nash missing 300 freethrows to say he isn't a great free throw shooter. I can take a bad game from any player in the league to try and prove a point. point is, Marvin's PER is slightly lower than Joes. He ONLY plays 24 minutes a game and take 7 shots. Blaming the offensive woes of this team on one guy who is leading the team in 3 point percentage is silly.

B: Bosh's post game is his weak point. he is a face up PF. You would RATHER have him post player up as that is not the strength of his game. He shot jumpers on Luer, not because of his size but because Luer had to back up because he was too slow to stop his drives. Chris Bosh is a multi time allstar as a Jumpshooting PF. So your point is that if we trade for a guy that will allow him to play to his strength we..win? Playing up on a guy doesn't lead to more perimeter shots. What kind of moronic statement is that. Playing up on a guy forces him to drive because he can't get room to effectively get his shot off.

C: i don't think you understand how help defense works. Help defense is by design. If you blow an assignment it doesn't allow for the other player to help. On the play where you say "marvin wasn't athletic enough" joe BLEW his assignment. You want some super human play from marvin Williams to defend that play. You have heard the term (You have to give your help time to set up) which means you have to at least SLOW the guy down. If you can look at that play and actually blame Marvin Williams for Deng scoring, you simply don't know anything about basketball. On the Bosh play, that was Marvins fault. However...its ONE play. pretending that is Marvin williams defensive ability in a nut shell is ridiculous.

Honestly, i just don't think you know basketball. You know how to watch a player and thats about it. I don't think you understand offensive plays or defensive sets. Your own examples often prove the opposite of what you are going for. The fact that you think adding a proven bad defender to our team to replace a solid defneder and moving our best defender into a nightly mismatch is proof of that.

[djjob23]

Here's what I thought would be a good trade if we could pull it off:

Atlanta Trades: Joe Johnson, Al Horford, Marvin Williams, Kirk Hinrich, 2 1st
Atlanta Receives: Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu, Kevin Martin

Orlando Trades: Howard, Turkoglu, 1 2nd
Orlando Receives: JJ, Horford, ATL 1st

Houston Trades: Kevin Martin
Houston Receives: Marvin Williams, Kirk Hinrich, ATL 1st, ORL 2nd


Roster:
J.Teague / J.Pargo
K.Martin / T.McGrady / W.Green
H.Turkoglu / V.Radmanovic
J.Smith / I.Johnson
D.Howard / Z.Pachulia

Kevin Martin is unhappy in Houston. Dwight gets shot at title. If Dwight leaves from his hometown, at least we got rid of our cancer JJ. Get it done.

[joe56755]

Here's what I thought would be a good trade if we could pull it off:

Atlanta Trades: Joe Johnson, Al Horford, Marvin Williams, Kirk Hinrich, 2 1st
Atlanta Receives: Dwight Howard, Hedo Turkoglu, Kevin Martin

Orlando Trades: Howard, Turkoglu, 1 2nd
Orlando Receives: JJ, Horford, ATL 1st

Houston Trades: Kevin Martin
Houston Receives: Marvin Williams, Kirk Hinrich, ATL 1st, ORL 2nd


Roster:
J.Teague / J.Pargo
K.Martin / T.McGrady / W.Green
H.Turkoglu / V.Radmanovic
J.Smith / I.Johnson
D.Howard / Z.Pachulia

Kevin Martin is unhappy in Houston. Dwight gets shot at title. If Dwight leaves from his hometown, at least we got rid of our cancer JJ. Get it done.

orlando wouldnt want jj and his contract . i cant see any team wanting johnson unless they felt he was enough to get them a title . i thought chicago would be the best place for him . but even the bulls fans dont want him . maybe howard and hedo for horford ,hinrich , marvin and a first . marvin is cheaper than hedo so magic fans might like it . ofcourse if howard doesnt resign or lead the hawks to a title this year . the hawks would have traded away horford and a first and been stuck with hedo for a half a season of howard .

[HMFFL]

^
I would like to have Luol Deng from Chicago. Carlos Boozer serves no purpose for us, and it's not like Joakim Noah or Derrick Rose will be moved. Chicago only has role player contracts to match but that's not substantial value for Atlanta.

Luol Deng
Omer Asik
CJ Watson

for

Joe Johnson

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

How available is Josh Smith?

Would you guys go for...

Jazz trade: Paul Millsap, CJ Miles, Devin Harris
for
Atlanta trade: Josh Smith, Kirk Hinrich

?

[fullcourt]

How available is Josh Smith?

Would you guys go for...

Jazz trade: Paul Millsap, CJ Miles, Devin Harris
for
Atlanta trade: Josh Smith, Kirk Hinrich

?

...... no

Josh > Millsap
Teague > Harris
Kirk Hinrich's expiring contract..... awesome

[HMFFL]

How available is Josh Smith?

Would you guys go for...

Jazz trade: Paul Millsap, CJ Miles, Devin Harris
for
Atlanta trade: Josh Smith, Kirk Hinrich

?

We apparently tested his value last off-season. We wanted a top 5 pick for him (Minny passed) so any trade would need to be beneficial for us. I think the idea would be to move Horford to the 4 if Smith gets traded, so that makes it difficult with Paul Millsap on the team, and Devin Harris basically fills no need for us.

Management seemed to want Enes Kanter so I would expect them to want him if the two parties discussed a trade.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

Hmmm.

I think the value of Josh Smith and Millsap are about even considering Millsap is a bargain contract for his production. Millsap/Horford/Zaza big man rotation would look pretty good with a guy like Johnson sniping from outside.

You guys could bring Harris off the bench to solidify your PG rotation. Teague/Harris rotation is pretty good with the team you guys have.

CJ Miles is an expiring contract so you would still have some flexibility and he would provide you guys with another dynamic scoring wing; he would/could essentially take on Crawford's role.

I respect your opinion but it still bums me out that you said no so easily.