Official Raptors 2012 NBA Draft Thread, Part 6

[fredericklove]

Barnes looks like a heck of a weak-side prospect. I know people really, really want him to be a 1st option and are looking/wishing very hard for evidence of that game in his, but there's no way IMO. He's a single threat in college though a very good one.

Q is a 1st option prospect, a triple-threat who could be a weak-side player as a worst-case. Not as good of an off-ball prospect as Barnes, and therefore a lower floor, but he can still shoot it from range off the catch at 6'9-6'10. Sorry, GIF-tits, but Odom is an awful comp.

It depends on what you need and where you are as a team if you're drafting to keep, but if you're considering trades, Barnes would have a bigger market as he could immediately help a contender as a shooter. If Barnes were on the board at our pick I'd be working the phones to trade it/him, but I wouldn't take him higher than 6 or 7 as a keeper.

You are the only one that would say you'll trade the pick if Barnes still there, that's just being ridiculous, I don't really care if he's 1st or 2nd option but for sure he can score. Since Bargs is reclassified as the first legit 1st option, it'll be sweet having Barnes as 2nd option. So Barnes is a scoring threat that any team would want, he's got such a great offensive instinct and is very assertive when the game is on the line, what's not to like there. People can argue about his lack of passing and ball-handling ability but he can absolutely score... and in this draft especially from a Sf position, you need a 2 way player? Barnes is among the top of this draft in that department (so is Lamb) How often do you get a talented SF in every draft? So I think you're being ridiculous saying he shouldn't be picked higher than 6 or 7.

How is Odom's a poor comparison? Their game not being similar? Both are lengthy 6'9-6'10, decent shooting touch while abuses smaller defender on the drive or around the key, ...Odom was pretty amazing in the early part of his career in Clippers.

[Marlo Stanfield]

I don't feel like there's a good comparison for Quincy Miller in the NBA at this point (unless I'm forgetting someone). The closest thing is Kevin Durant because of the height, handle and jump shot but that's pretty far off at this point.

Before college, I saw poor man's KD comparison, but now in college I see Odom as a closer comparison, both uses length really well, has capable handles, crafty once they are in the key, they are just so similar. And both have all around game too. So I see Odom upside, that is no chump. That's a very good compliment from me.

I don't really see the Odom comparison, that's more accurate for PJIII. The things that separate Q and Odom are jumpshooting and playmaking. Q is a very good shooter despite the release point, but a mediocre playmaker. Odom is a mediocre shooter, but a very good playmaker.

Many people make the Luol Deng comparison for Barnes, but I think Miller is closer to Deng. Both have excellent size, decent passing and good shooting. The thing separating them is Deng's defense.

Screw it, I'll go with Quincy Miller will be what Austin Daye should have been.

[Crazy-Canuck]

Along with MKG, Im on the trey Burke bandwagon.

Ive been watching him play the last little while and think he'll be a difference maker at the next level. As a freshman now, hed be our best point guard.

[ash_k]

People should just stop comparing (or even mentioning in the same breath) KD and Quincy Miller; Absolutely nothing in common.

KD dominated the NCAA from Day 1 like we rarely seen due his unique combination of skills and physical tools with his "unblockable" jumper.

Say no to Quincy Miller! Whenever you blow your knee at such an early stage, it is a bad sign!

Say yes to Harrison Barnes!

Perry Jones III is a SF no ifs and buts.

[Laowai]

I assume that BC will get rid of either Amir or Davis before or at draft time.
I would love us to get Nicolson he is putting up huge numbers with St. Bonaventure and is a Senior so he should be able to help right out of the blocks.

[Reef]

I assume that BC will get rid of either Amir or Davis before or at draft time.
I would love us to get Nicolson he is putting up huge numbers with St. Bonaventure and is a Senior so he should be able to help right out of the blocks.

He won't even get drafted with the season he's having.

[Marlo Stanfield]

People should just stop comparing (or even mentioning in the same breath) KD and Quincy Miller; Absolutely nothing in common.

KD dominated the NCAA from Day 1 like we rarely seen due his unique combination of skills and physical tools with his "unblockable" jumper.

Say no to Quincy Miller! Whenever you blow your knee at such an early stage, it is a bad sign!

Well I won't get into an argument about what Quincy is in the NBA because there's no way I can win with no proof. However, KD dominated the NCAA being completely healthy and option 1, 2, 3 & 4 on offense. Being featured sorta helps...like....kinda a lot.... If Quincy were featured and played more than 25mpg he'd probably put up something like 20 ppg, 8 rpg, 2-3 apg. I mean the guy is shooting almost 50% from 2 and over 40% from 3. Check this out:

Guess who turned out better between these two sophomores in college?

Option 1 - 20 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.6 apg, 0.551 FG%, 0.779 FT%
VERSUS
Option 2 - 20.9 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 3.5 apg, 0.450 FG%, 0.853 FT%

Pretty close, not too much separation between these two. The difference is, one guy was featured and the other was not. FYI option 1 is Michael Jordan and option 2 is Joseph Forte. All I'm saying is performance in college doesn't always determine NBA success. Both of these guys were viewed as can't miss prospects but only one succeeded. Most people on here (including me) would be jizzing themselves if either of these guys were in this 2012 draft. So back to my original argument that KD was featured, as he should have been, as opposed to Quincy who gets shots after Jones, Jackson and even Acy get theirs. No, I'm not saying Quincy will be better than KD (that would be crazy), but the comparison is valid because their games are similar. And of course Q blowing out his knee holds him back even further, but I think people will see what this guy is truly made of if there's a coach smarter than Scott Drew who will actually feature this beast.

Perry Jones III is a PF no ifs and buts.

Fixed.

[sunny]

im trying to establish a list of all the players drafted in the past decade from top 10 ranked teams to see how the players developed in the nba. Anyone want to help me out?

I have a big hunch that the unc/duke syndrome probably is a bit more universal than that and is a factor that can easily mislead fans/gm's come draft day.

[Kabookalu]

People should just stop comparing (or even mentioning in the same breath) KD and Quincy Miller; Absolutely nothing in common.

KD dominated the NCAA from Day 1 like we rarely seen due his unique combination of skills and physical tools with his "unblockable" jumper.

Say no to Quincy Miller! Whenever you blow your knee at such an early stage, it is a bad sign!

Say yes to Harrison Barnes!

Perry Jones III is a SF no ifs and buts.

I still have hope that Miller could be great, but yeah I agree he's not comparable to Durant. Durant has always been explosive to go along with his deadly shot. Miller is more of a point forward kind of guy with guard like skills, but was never explosive.

[tcee]

i haven't been following kentucky much, but would it be remotely possible to take anthony davis and run him at the 3 on defensive matchups and at the 4 on offense? so we can have a frontcourt of valanciunas, bargs, and adavis; if davis can guard the 3 that'd be a pretty potent combination

[Kabookalu]

i haven't been following kentucky much, but would it be remotely possible to take anthony davis and run him at the 3 on defensive matchups and at the 4 on offense? so we can have a frontcourt of valanciunas, bargs, and adavis; if davis can guard the 3 that'd be a pretty potent combination

It's possible, but it's not the best use of his talents. His greatest appeal is his work around the basket; crashing the boards, blocking shots, playing pick and roll defense. All the perimeter stuff he's great at is just icing.

[Al_Oliver]

im trying to establish a list of all the players drafted in the past decade from top 10 ranked teams to see how the players developed in the nba. Anyone want to help me out?

I have a big hunch that the unc/duke syndrome probably is a bit more universal than that and is a factor that can easily mislead fans/gm's come draft day.

http://basketballreference.com/players/ ... University

http://basketballreference.com/players/ ... h+Carolina

[tcee]

what exactly is so great about q miller that wows people?

[fredericklove]

i haven't been following kentucky much, but would it be remotely possible to take anthony davis and run him at the 3 on defensive matchups and at the 4 on offense? so we can have a frontcourt of valanciunas, bargs, and adavis; if davis can guard the 3 that'd be a pretty potent combination

I've seen Davis guard the perimeter 3 on p&r D, and he did a solid job staying in front of the defender. But still, it was only one or two times, I can't see him guard the 3 long term and I don't want Davis anywhere near the 3 spot on BOTH ends.

[fredericklove]

what exactly is so great about q miller that wows people?

I get what you mean, especially on the lack of lateral quickness/defensive liability/lack of perimeter game...I'm not a big fan of him but his potential is still great, if he pans out he can be an all around player but I seriously think he needs another year in Baylor, work on those "stop carrying the ball" handle and bulk up cos he's skinny as hell and add in more offensive moves in his repertoire. Because he is definitely going to struggle right off the bat in the NBA right now atm (I'm absolutely 100% sure)

[ash_k]

Well I won't get into an argument about what Quincy is in the NBA because there's no way I can win with no proof. However, KD dominated the NCAA being completely healthy and option 1, 2, 3 & 4 on offense. Being featured sorta helps...like....kinda a lot.... If Quincy were featured and played more than 25mpg he'd probably put up something like 20 ppg, 8 rpg, 2-3 apg. I mean the guy is shooting almost 50% from 2 and over 40% from 3. Check this out:

Guess who turned out better between these two sophomores in college?

Option 1 - 20 ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1.6 apg, 0.551 FG%, 0.779 FT%
VERSUS
Option 2 - 20.9 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 3.5 apg, 0.450 FG%, 0.853 FT%

Pretty close, not too much separation between these two. The difference is, one guy was featured and the other was not. FYI option 1 is Michael Jordan and option 2 is Joseph Forte. All I'm saying is performance in college doesn't always determine NBA success. Both of these guys were viewed as can't miss prospects but only one succeeded. Most people on here (including me) would be jizzing themselves if either of these guys were in this 2012 draft. So back to my original argument that KD was featured, as he should have been, as opposed to Quincy who gets shots after Jones, Jackson and even Acy get theirs. No, I'm not saying Quincy will be better than KD (that would be crazy), but the comparison is valid because their games are similar. And of course Q blowing out his knee holds him back even further, but I think people will see what this guy is truly made of if there's a coach smarter than Scott Drew who will actually feature this beast.

Perry Jones III is a PF no ifs and buts.

Fixed.

^^^
Stats are good to throw out there, but they dont tell the story especially in the NCAA.

Did you actually watch Kevin Durant in College?
Did you watch Joe Forte?
For example, Rashad McCants was way better than Joe Forte at UNC but stats wont necessarily show that.

Quincy's lack of elevation on his shot and slow release will not work at the next level unless he changes more than a few things which at this stage I doubt.
He doesnt have that commending presence which explains why he doesnt get the shots ( yup it is not that "Easy" Quincy).


Have you actually watched Perry Jones play?
Anthony Davis is a Power Forward, PJIII moves like a wing and has the shooting mechanics of a wing.

Dont be fooled by his PF/C starting position at Baylor; for example Glenn Big Robinson was a starting 4 at Purdue most of the time.

[Undefeated]

Barnes can absorb contacts...but there's always going to be a knock on his lack of quickness. It's tougher for him cos everytime he goes in the paint he worries about getting striped so he consciously has to remind himself to protect the ball. For Lebron, he's not just with brute strength he's got combination of brute strength and quickness...he doesn't need to consciously protect the ball cos he knows once he drives, there's no stopping him. So quick so strong, so scary.

Yeah, Barnes does need to protect the basketball like a football using that forearm to shield the ball away from defenders. But I was saying how Barnes might be the best wing player from this draft who has a shot of slowing and steering LeBron James defensively. Of course no one can stop LeBron, but I want a guy who I know can contain and slow him down, and that's Barnes for a number of reasons. I really like how Barnes pops out his chest to slow down his opponent displaying superb upper body strength to absorb contact rather than using his hands to steer his opponent, the lateral quickness, the wingspan, and just his overall frame that's NBA-ready. As great as MKG is, he doesn't have the frame nor the height like Barnes to contain LeBron barreling down the middle.

[Marlo Stanfield]

I've watched all of them play and Joe Forte was a "can't miss" prospect even though he faceplanted in the NBA. And like I said, Kevin Durant was featured while Quincy is an afterthought. The man can only do what his coach asks him or else he's regarded as a "cancer". People will see how good Quincy actually is if he gets a chance in the NBA, or even if he goes back to Baylor next year when Jones leaves. But calling Jones a SF is laughable, that's the same thing people said about Derrick Williams. Jones will be a bust either way, but playing him at SF just guarantees it. Shooting mechanics has absolutely nothing to do with it, it's all about lateral quicks.

[5DOM]

Joe Forte was definitely not a "can't miss" prospect - at least not even close to being the one Jordan was.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Joe Forte was definitely not a "can't miss" prospect - at least not even close to being the one Jordan was.

Don't twist my words. I said they were both "can't miss" prospects (which if you actually remember correctly was true about Forte as well), but I never said Forte was at the same level as Jordan. The comparison is just to show the similarity in the stat lines, except one goes onto be the GOAT while the other falls into NBA obscurity.